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Message |
    
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:00 am: |     |
Why is our service disrupted, rather than the Trenton service?
I tried to take the 9:38 home last night, and had a very long commute through Hoboken (arriving home at nearly midnight). No extra signs or staff or assistance at Penn Station, and when I inquired as to why the trains were cancelled at the booth, the teller gives me a classic passive-agressive blank stare and says "what trains?" Like he had no idea what I could mean.
To continue complaining, we boarded in Hoboken, and the conductors tried as long as possible to not open additional cars, even though it was crowded and people were tired and short-tempered from waiting around the station. Hadn't they heard the news about the cancellations? Couldn't they anticipate extra ridership?
I was thinking - me and my wife pay $3000 per year for our train fair, more than our car note, and the Volkswagen dealership treats us like VIPs. What's up with NJT service and morale? I'm not blaming the workers, and I'm not saying it's really easy to run a railroad, but things seem pretty surly lately.
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bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3213
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:18 am: | |
In fairness to the NJT train crews I believe there are rules on the number of cars a conductor or trainman can supervise. Opening additional cars requires additional crew, which isn't always available.
When I caught the 6:25am Hoboken train this morning they were announcing that all service was still going into Hoboken. |
paddy
Citizen
Username: Paddy
Post Number: 115
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:23 pm: | |
Our service is disrupted because it can be. The Trenton line does not go into Hoboken. So if they are looking to ease congestion, it's going to be us since the Morris/Essex line can go into both NY Penn and Hoboken terminals. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 115
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:25 pm: | |
But they eventually opened the cars, so they must have had the staff. They just don't always feel like opening them. I don't think at that hour that they are still carrying extra cars out of the city anymore. If the cars are on the westbound trains at night, I think they are there to carry people. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:27 pm: | |
Paddy -
A reasonable answer. |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1639
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 12:56 pm: | |
themp - you don't know when the staff was available. They may have come in from another train and been assigned as soon as possible. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 650
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 1:07 pm: | |
And the Trenton line was disrupted. A number of trains were canceled yesterday and today which I assume led to massive overcrowding. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3214
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 1:33 pm: | |
The late evening trains often are long ones. The drill is to get the trains out to Dover and Peapack where they will be parked for the night so they will be ready for the morning inbound rush.
Choo Choo Bob |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 117
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 3:21 pm: | |
Ok. Nevermind. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1767
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 4:10 pm: | |
Themp:
The train crew usually tries to get by with as few passenger occupied cars as possible. Since middle seats are generally regarded as legitimate seating by NJT, even if the commuting public would not necessarily agree, they will generally try to avoid openning an additional car unless these seats are all occupied. The fact that the crew EVENTUALLY did open additional car(s) shows that they reacted accordingly when they reached the maximum desireable capacity (by NJT standards) in the cars they originally openned. As Bobk pointed out, the crew probably did not intend to operate these cars at all but changed their mind once they saw how overcrowded the train had become. It is doubtful that any additional crew were assigned to the train once the higher than normal volume of ridership materialized.
Crew to car ration is a valid concern. One of the points raised in this morning's Star Ledger article was that there may have been too few train crew members (a total of three including the engineer) for the size of the train which derailed (12 cars) and the number of passengers on board (1,200). Passengers complained that the train crew did not come to their aid when the two cars (neither of which had a crew member inside) left the tracks. My friends who take the Trenton line envy our passenger/car to crew ratio.
The Trenton line does run a few trains into Hoboken but most of their service is oriented towards Penn Station (as many as four trains per hour as opposed to our average of one per hour for most of the day). Service from our area tends to be more oriented towards Hoboken to start with and Midtown Direct riders are more apt to know how to get to the City from Hoboken.
That said, my commute yesterday evening and today was disrupted too and I was not pleased about it.
Thankfully, Midtown Direct is forecasting normal Midtown Direct service for tomorrow morning.
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luv2cruise
Citizen
Username: Luv2cruise
Post Number: 77
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 9:28 pm: | |
I think most conductors are just plain lazy.
There's nothing like being on the ocean! |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 179
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 9:43 am: | |
There are some nice ones, but for the most part I think their passion is gone. Asking them a question is like pulling teeth. And some really can't fit down the isles.
That said, I was on a train last night & the word was that a couple of them fell from the train, or they were pushed by the crowd.
The mess at hoboken last night at the 6pm rush was NUTS.
Maybe with all the attention that NJT is going to get, things will straighten out.
But the mystery of the foul doo-doo odors from the train will never be solved. That is for the x-files. |
ril
Citizen
Username: Ril
Post Number: 96
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 9:55 am: | |
Commute seemed normal this morning, thank heavens. don't think I could take another trip like last night's--people were actually PASSING OUT on the overcrowded, overheated, much delayed train that finally left Hoboken around 6.
I hope whoever made the decision to change the track at the last moment (causing thousands of people who'd been waiting at track 14 for nearly 45 minutes to climb over the tracks to board) DID get pushed from the train. And then they didn't even make all the stops they'd announced! What a fiasco. NJT can't blame this mess on the derailment or the power failure--this was strictly a manmade disaster. |
algebra2
Citizen
Username: Algebra2
Post Number: 1096
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 10:16 am: | |
I am so thankful I left work early and took the 4:33 from Hoboken. People actually fell off the train? Passed out from the heat? Is this real?
I have always thought the conductors did their best working within a crappy system. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 180
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 1:30 pm: | |
A combination of mechanical and human error contributed to Monday's NJ Transit commuter train derailment that injured 25 people and disrupted rush hour service between Newark and New York, officials said Wednesday.
A conductor failed to properly test for high heat damage about 30 minutes before a wheel fell off, derailing two cars of the 12-car Trenton-to-New York train, according to George Warrington, NJ Transit's executive director.
The damaged car had passed an inspection earlier in the month, Warrington said. The other 230 similar cars in the agency's fleet were checked after Monday's accident and found to be OK, he said.
Officials have said a sensor along the tracks about 20 miles west of the derailment site picked up excessive heat from the wheel that eventually fell off. He said the information was relayed back to the train engineer with instructions to stop the train and test the wheel.
New Jersey Transit trains were back on regular schedules Wednesday as the morning rush went off without a hitch two days after a derailment, the agency said.
"We were on schedule throughout the whole morning," said Ken Hitchner, a transit spokesman.
Monday's derailment of a New York-bound train in Secaucus sent a dozen people to hospitals, injured 25 passengers, canceled some Northeast Corridor and North Jersey Coast Line trains and forced Midtown Direct trains to stop in Hoboken, where passengers had to transfer to ferries or PATH trains.
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ril
Citizen
Username: Ril
Post Number: 97
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 3:42 pm: | |
No, I didn't mean to imply that anyone had fallen off the train (at least not that I saw). But I definitely saw a woman pass out ON the train (before we even got to Broad St.), in the next car. It was crowded and very hot, and we were just stuck there for a very long time. Not a conductor in sight; she was aided by the other passengers. People gave her water, a seat, and fanned her with newspapers. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 4:02 pm: | |
I didn't mean to blame the conductors. I know they put up with a lot of grief. I think maybe NJT is unable to staff sufficiently to smooth out situations like the derailment. Maybe they can't allow overtime with their budget problems. I was a little disappointed, because let's face it - my quality of life is very dependent on the quality of my commute. Last night was pretty badly handled in Hoboken by all reports. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1045
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 4:07 pm: | |
Whether or not there's someone nearby to help a sick passenger, there should be someone who could make an occasional announcement. I got on a train Monday night in Hoboken that sat in the station for 40 minutes past the scheduled departure time, sat again outside the station for 10 minutes, crawled to Newark, then spent another 20 minutes waiting around East Orange -- all without a single announcement to the riders explaining what's going on.
Obviously the earlier parts of the delay were due to the derailment; but what could have been holding us up once we were past Newark Broad St.? |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 181
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 4:14 pm: | |
Please. ANYONE who has something to say, say it here and to NJT.
Call them:
(800) 772-2222 within N.J. or (973) 762-5100 out of state.
Write the executive director:
George D. Warrington
I have had some positive results with calling them and I wrote Mr. Warrington once.
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Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1770
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 4:40 pm: | |
With all of our complaining about the inconvenience so many of us suffered as a result of the derailment, we shouldn't loose sight of the fact that a dozen or more people were injured sufficiently in the derailment to require hospitalization. Emphasis needs to be placed on seeing to it that such an accident does not happen again.
As for the incident ril referred to, it seems inevitable given the lack of cars and communication typical of NJT's non-response to emergency situations. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 182
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 4:59 pm: | |
Joan
Speaking for myself, and most likely everyone else - not once did I forget that people were injured.
I think the incident sparked a bigger conversation about NJT and the service it provides. Keeping in mind that they could possibly be doing a better job.
It does look like there was some human error in what happened, and if people act up and get involved, maybe there is a lesser possibility that it will happen again.
I personally think that some of the people I see working on and off the trains are half asleep.
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mellie
Citizen
Username: Mellie
Post Number: 252
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 2:32 pm: | |
I have said it before - NJT sucks. I thouhgt De Libero was worthless and had high hopes for Warrington - he at least acknowledges that problems exist, which is the first step in fixing them.
But, based on this week, NJT have not improved at all. Did anyone use their web site on Tues evening - totally misleading |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 122
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 4:13 pm: | |
I think filling out complaints and calling, etc, is a good idea. You know what ticks me off? It seems like a perfect symbol for a variety of failings. Why must the PA system produce wailing feedback whenever it is used? I know it isn't a big deal, but fixing it wouldn't be a big deal either. It is one of several simple problems - most likely conductors leaving the door open while they talk, or standing too far from the mike, or maybe cheap equipment. It says that no one gives a damn every time one hears that piercing sound. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 8:00 pm: | |
People who complain about NJT should try the LIRR or Metro North by comparison. From what I hear, we have the best show in the tri-state area.
And please do not be too hard on NJT employees. The overwhelming majority of their people are trying the best they can. |
mellie
Citizen
Username: Mellie
Post Number: 254
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 8:36 am: | |
I never understand wthe philosophy that tries to excuse mediocrity by pointing out worse situations. Why bother at all then ?
The issue is NJT and their crapness, not LIRR and it's worse crapness. The overwhelming majority of NJT employees are not doing the best they can -if they were we wouldn't be complaining.
For those like Chris who perhaps do not recall- when Midtown Direct came it it was invariably late and invariably broke down - but the head of NJT -Shirley DeLibero - was sending press releases to the Star Ledger saying how great it was ie completely ignoring reality. She later moved to Houston (I think) to run their metroplitan bus service but was then fired for lying on her resume. That is where NJT is starting from in it's approach to customer service and they clearly have not yet overcome that institutional disregard for what actually happens. They are making a better effort but are still woefully underperforming.
So LIRR may be worse (although I don't think it is) - but so what.
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kevin
Citizen
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 66
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 8:05 am: | |
Just FYI,
If you mail your July monthly rail ticket back to NJT, they will refund you 15%
I don't see the information on the njtransit site, but saw the article here:
http://1010wins.com/topstories/winstopstories_story_203164240.html
"Executive Director George Warrington said customers who have monthly rail tickets for July should use them until the end of the month, then mail them back to the agency, which will issue checks for 15 percent of the cost of the ticket."
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