| Author | Message | ||
     Pierce Butler Citizen Username: Pierce_butler Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2003 |
I was specifically referring to the criminal justice context, which was the context of zoe's comments. By the way, if I promise to sell you my Renoir and then I renege, is it called "social engineering" when the court orders me to hand it over? No; it's called a remedy, as is school busing. | ||
| zoe Citizen Username: Zoe Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2002 |
Read any copy of the Star Ledger. In it you will have numerous opportunities to discover situations where the courts have interceeded. An example from today's? Try to find out how a man, a formerly convicted murderer, is once again sought for two more murders. How did he get out? I am not certain, but I'll bet you it had something to do with the judge at sentencing. He had only served twelve years originally. What behooves the courts to allow a convicted murder to be released after serving only twelve years? Not the law that I understand. Take the courts decision to fund education. It is in our constitution to educate children, but to force construction and begin with preschoolers, all that stuff comes from the bench. And you used a bad example, the bus was never sold. The concept of the sale is required under contract law. The busing of students is correctly called social engineering. It was in all liklihood thought up not by a judge, but by a socioigist. It changes many people's lives, it is forced by the courts, not legislation. Which makes it law, not of the people, or by the people, but forced upon the people. | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4885 Registered: 5-2001  |
The courts interpret the law. The laws are created by legislators. The legislators are elected by us. (I learned this on Saturday morning cartoons when I was 6.) If you want to get technical, all laws are "social engineering". So either you're a social engineering fan or an anarchist. | ||
| Tommy Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 250 Registered: 1-2003  |
Dave, this is the second time I've had to correct you today. Good legislation is a law I like. Social engineering is a law I don't like. Got that? Tom Reingold | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4886 Registered: 5-2001 |
LOL. Yessir. | ||
| Pierce Butler Citizen Username: Pierce_butler Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2003 |
zoe, my example was fine. It has nothing to do with whether the bus is sold. It has to do with whether there is a remedy for the violation of a legal right. Despite what you seem to think, courts do not go around at large ordering school busing and other forms of "social engineering" because they think it would be a swell idea. They order such things only if they first determine that someone has violated someone else's legal rights: whether it be your right to the Renoir I promised to sell or the rights of black children not to be sent to schools that are segregated as a result of government action. As for the convicted murderer, it is impossible to tell from the Star Ledger article whether the problem was with the court, the parole board, the legislature, or a combination. I have no idea what the possible sentence for murder was in 1980, and I also have no idea what the court's sentence actually was. All I know is that he was paroled after 12 years. Going on this sparse information, are you really confident that this is evidence that the courts are engaged in "social engineering?" Not to mention the fact that this occurred 23 years ago, so it hardly evidences what courts are doing now. Finally, given the relatively short amount of time he stayed in prison, I wonder whether he was convicted of murder after all rather than manslaughter. Newspapers get such things wrong all the time. | ||
| marie Citizen Username: Marie Post Number: 665 Registered: 6-2001 |
Earlier today, two Maplewood kids were playing basketball on the one remaining basketball court in Maplewood, at Memorial Park. They had ridden their bikes to the courts and leaned them up against the fence while they played ball. Several other youths then joined the game. Moments after that, a group of youths stole the bikes and fled riding up Park Road (mistake) along with the two youths who had joined the game earlier. The kids who had their bikes stolen yelled to someone nearby to call the police. The long and short of it is that the youths who had stolen the bikes were arrested and the bikes were recovered. One of the boys whose bike was stolen was incredibly grateful as his previous bike had been stolen and he had just saved up "three months allowance" to purchase his new bike. The boys on the court had been set up. The youths who stole the bikes were from Irvington. Now, this is my question: Is this event just part of life in Maplewood and something that we come to expect and accept, or is it an indication of a cancerous crime issue that we really need to address? I love this town. I am however, really becoming concerned for its wellbeing. Thanks to the MPD for another job well done. | ||
| deborahg Citizen Username: Deborahg Post Number: 623 Registered: 5-2001  |
I'll probably get flamed for this, but is there some reason these boys can't just lock up their bikes? Seems like common sense, like locking your house--especially if you've recently had a bike stolen. | ||
| deborahg Citizen Username: Deborahg Post Number: 624 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'll probably get flamed for this, but is there some reason these boys can't just lock up their bikes? Seems like common sense, like locking your house--especially if you've recently had a bike stolen. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 334 Registered: 3-2002 |
Deborahg- Aren't you missing something here? It was a SET UP. That's why they didn't lock up their bikes. Perhaps you will now claim entrapment, oh and I hope you are locking your doors at night in case your house gets robbed. I wouldn't want to say that it was your own fault. | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 1834 Registered: 5-2001  |
I could be mistaken (and correct me if I'm wrong), but I think Marie was saying that the kids who took their bikes to the basketball court, were the ones who were set up. I'm glad this episode turned out okay for the children. I'll take the "glass is half full" view, since this shows that we have an excellent police force which can respond when a crime like this takes place. Personally, I always make sure my kids have bike locks, and use them wherever they go. I'm kind of a fanatic about locking up bikes, no matter where you are, ever since my brand new, gear-shift Schwinn with the high handle bars and banana seat was stolen from me back in 1970 or so, in Bergen County. Do you know what those babies are going for on E-Bay nowadays? | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4887 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nohero's Schwinn Stingray: $99 | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 1835 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nice try - that bike is a reproduction, and there are no "speeds". And in case anybody is wondering, my lost bike was not named "Rosebud" ... | ||
| tourne Citizen Username: Tourne Post Number: 177 Registered: 1-2003 |
deborahg- Typical cynical city folk response. Maybe you should lock your purse to your behind, too. | ||
| deborahg Citizen Username: Deborahg Post Number: 625 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh, I do, Tourne, I do!  | ||
| AZ Citizen Username: Azaltsman Post Number: 157 Registered: 1-2003 |
Well, that explains my NYC flashback I had last night while playing tennis in the courts just behind the basketball area. I think I saw 2 MPD cars race toward Tuscan Rd area. Man, how did they catch them on bikes? | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2003 |
Since I'm moving to Maplewood in a few weeks, not far from the Irvington border, all of these postings concern me. Aaron, you and Zoe seem to have the best answers to the cause of this problem. The breakdown of the family unit and lack of proper policing by Irvington police. Unless something is being done to improve that in Irvington, it will continue to be a Maplewood problem. Let's face it, unless we make all Irvington youth and adults for that matter, wear a t-shirt that says, "I'm from Irvington, keep your eye on me", there's no way you'll stop them from coming to Maplewood and doing whatever. So, unless Irvington gets their act together, how are we going to stop Irvington crime in Maplewood? And another thing, I could be wrong but since most of the kids from Irvington coming to M/SO to commit crimes are black, will that lead to our own black M/SO kids getting harassed more often? | ||
| copihue Citizen Username: Vperalta Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2003  |
Is the goal to keep the Irvington kids out of our parks? or is it to stop crime? These are two separate issues. I know kids who live in Irvington, they are great kids, and they have no safe place to play in Irvington. They tried to play in Maplewood parks, and they were forbidden. That's so sad; they are spending their summer vacations in their hot apartments because it's safe there. Not everyone in Irvington is a criminal, not everyone is a loser who could not leave earlier, some of these folks have lived there all their lives and they refuse to leave their homes; others are new immigrants who can't afford Maplewood rents because they are not criminals but hard working janitors, bus drivers and the like. I'm glad the State Police is there helping local cops get that situation under control, then the nice Irvington kids who want to learn, make a contribution to their community and have clean fun can go out on the street. | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 1484 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have to agree with Copihue. In my hospital-based job I have plenty of professional and non-professional colleagues at all levels who reside in Irvington, raising kids, paying mortagages and taxes, going to church, etc., etc. I sent my kid to preschool with their kids. BTW: Today's Ledger has an article about a "home invasion" in Millburn during which a father and his kids were tied up with duct tape. A truly terrifying experience. The three assailants were Asian. So I guess not all the local crime is committed by Irvington residents of African-Americans descent crossing the border into Maplewood. And serious crime does happen everywhere. Cathy aka Bacata/Nakaille | ||
| Nonaffiliated voter Citizen Username: Java_drinker Post Number: 227 Registered: 8-2002 |
Copihue & C Bataille, what are your friends doing to make their own town better, other than leaving to come here? I feel sorry for their situation, but not acting on the problem(s) is almost as bad as being part of it. |
