| Author | Message | ||
     copihue Citizen Username: Vperalta Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2003  |
What do you expect single-parent women (with husbands in their own country), who were professionals in their war-torn countries, but who can't speak English and who cannot work as RNs in New Jersey, to do against drug dealers? The drug dealers are servicing members of our community, that's why when I drive to pick up their kids in my Audi station wagon, all eyes are on me. But what do you expect other English-speaking and law-abiding Irvington citizens to do against criminals? My secretary is a lovely person, and she lives in Irvington with her husband and children. Are we asking her to fight city hall? she's adjusted to her circumstances, and now she is looking to move out. | ||
| Nonaffiliated voter Citizen Username: Java_drinker Post Number: 230 Registered: 8-2002 |
Actually yes, that is exactly what I should expect them to do… same as I would expect the fair residents of our two towns would do. “I’m just a single parent” isn’t much of an excuse for letting crime take over a town. “I’m just here to send money out of the country” isn’t going to bring back murdered, innocent bystanders and “I’m too poor to make a difference” doesn’t hold water either. I don’t mean to say that it isn’t hard for these people, I’m sure it is. But change MUST start on a grass-roots level and at the home. Simply picking up your children and shipping them to other schools (illegally) and abandoning your town only exacerbates the problems. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 661 Registered: 6-2001 |
As Cathy pointed out, lots of folks do stay in Irvington and I'll wager many are actively working to make it better. But, if they choose to go elsewhere, why the heck can't they? Just as some folks choose to leave Maplewood, sometimes citing proximity to Irvington or fear of gangs as reasons. There's quite a double standard implied there (though I realize you may not be someone who advocates leaving Maplewood either.) (The illegal student comment is gratuitous and tiresome.) | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2003 |
Believe me copihue and C Bataille, I agree with you. I do feel as you that where you're from has nothing to do with being a good or a bad person. I'm sure the majority of people that live in Irvington I would love to have as neighbors. I also know that poverty, ignorance and lack of a good family structure are the downfall of any environment. Its not the people or the town, its the circumstances. My comment about Irvington residents wearing t-shirts was to prove a point. There's no way to stop these random crimes from happening in Maplewood without profiling or discriminating and we definitely don't want that. copihue, you're also right about something else, role models play a vital role in any environment. If drug dealers are the $$$ makers in any environment, they will also be the most respected (and feared). You have to realize the power of $$$. Remember, Columbian drug dealers offered to pay their country's budget deficit (that's big $$$)! So no, I have nothing against anyone that's from a lower-income area (considering I lived in both central ward Newark and Bed-Stuy Brooklyn). So again, stopping Irvington crime in Maplewood starts and ends in in Irvington. | ||
| Tommy Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 253 Registered: 1-2003  |
They tried to play in Maplewood parks, and they were forbidden. Huh? Who forbids people from using a public park? We don't have a snooty town that keeps nonresidents out, do we? Tom Reingold | ||
| newjerz Citizen Username: Newjerz Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2003 |
I'm curious if anyone can shed some light on what has happened to Irvington that has reduced it to such a state of disrepair. My understanding is that at one point it was a thriving suburb of Newark. Did many of its problems arise following the Newark Riots in 1967? Also while it might sound snooty or selfish to try to limit park use to residents, it must be remembered that Maplewood is not here to provide public services to anyone in Essex county who needs them. While the use of our parks might be a minor cost, the use of our school system is a major one. I feel bad for families who can't afford to move to Maplewood and don't want to send their kids to the Irvington schools, but M/SO is not a charity organization. I suspect that the reason there has not been an all out effort to kick out illegal students from our schools is that certain members of our community think that we should be providing education for anyone who wants it. While this might be noble, it is financially draining and makes the schools devote extra resources to getting these students up to speed. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 662 Registered: 6-2001 |
Wander over to the Education threads. Tired of all the talk of illegal students, I dug and pulled the census numbers and the numbers of school aged Maplewood/SO residents and the numbers enrolled in district schools are very close (within statistical margins of error)--at least as of 2000. Our illegal student problem is likely in the low 10s, certainly not in the hundreds. We are not spending resources on Irvington kids. We are spending them on Maplewood residents. | ||
| James O' reilly Citizen Username: Highlander Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2003 |
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but at least in Dehart Park you cannot exclude non-residents from using the park because of funding by Green Acres. Tom, you should ask why all the basketball courts were closed down[except one] in town. | ||
| Chief Bangs-head-on-desk Citizen Username: Java_drinker Post Number: 234 Registered: 8-2002 |
this tirade won’t make me very popular… So what is the acceptable number of illegal students in our district? Is it 10,20,30? How about we set up a scholarship for students residing outside SO/M. That way deserving students can apply to legally attend our schools at the recommendations of the board. Not unlike private schools allowing lower-income students to attend at a set percentage. Beyond that point I have to agree with NEWJERZ, the towns are neither a charity organization nor are we an “Essex County Safe Zone”. If the TC would like to propose (and budget) for such services we can vote on it as a referendum. Something tells me it wouldn’t pass. Drug trade, gang activity, property destruction/dilapidation, run-down infrastructure, government mismanagement and outright corruption in other towns are not the result of Maplewood citizens but I doubt they can say the same for themselves. I do not speak for anyone but myself when I say that I moved to Maplewood for many wonderful reasons; lovely homes, community, schools, low(er) crime rate, proximity to the city, and diverse neighborhoods as many of us did. Protecting these assets should be a priority for all the branches of town government. And if discouraging nonresidents from using the facilities that my exorbitantly high taxes for, then so be it. I’ll even promise not to use any of the parks, pools, or facilities of Irvington in trade. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 343 Registered: 3-2002 |
There have been illegal students at Columbia since the early 70's. Jburch hasn't been around all that long and needs to take a ride on the 31 bus. These students are "legally registered" by our lackadaisical standards but do not SLEEP in this town. That is illegal. PS Anyone can use our parks, unlike South Orange. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 344 Registered: 3-2002 |
BTW- Glen Ridge residency policies match Millburn's exactly. I guess no one has challenged the rules there yet or should I say, no one has been told to challenge them. | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 470 Registered: 10-2001 |
Bacata no one is arguing that crime only exists in Maplewood and only because we border Irvington. Yes crime happens everywhere. However, IMO, if you were to look at statistics no one would be able to argue that Millburn is a far safer place than Maplewood. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 665 Registered: 6-2001 |
Actually sportsnut, according to the Money Mag rankings, Millburn and Maplewood got almost identical scores for crime, both very low by almost any standard. I posted the numbers a while ago, and can't remember now, but they were around 3 and 6, with national average being 100, and big cities scoring in the 200+ range. They score personal and property crime separately. Maplewood was better in one and Millburn in the other, though I forget which was which. Java-Drinker, I don't think there is an acceptable number, but I do think it makes sense to consider the cost of enforcement. And the district does remove 10 to 20 a year. How much is it worth to get the last 1, or even 10? If it looked like there was any evidence beyond rumor that the numbers were high--in the hundreds, I might be willing to consider it worth the additional cost of enforcement. But I've never put stock in the rumors and the most credible information I know of strongly suggests that it's not a huge problem. Something else is driving the rumors. (insert race card here) | ||
| ReallyTrying Citizen Username: Reallytrying Post Number: 117 Registered: 1-2003 |
newjerz and lumpyhead, you might be interested to know that at least one town's policy of not allowing non-residents to use town parks is the subject of litigation. And I know that in at least one reported case, a town's restrictive policy was struck down. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 666 Registered: 6-2001 |
lumpy, how often do you ride the #31 after school? And how many illegals have you counted there? | ||
| Tommy Reingold Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 255 Registered: 1-2003 |
sportsnut, jfburch claims that your claim of lower crime in Millburn is untrue. I don't know the facts, but assuming Maplewood has more crime than Millburn, what would you attribute it to? One could be the proximity to Irvington, with Irvingtonians crossing the border to commit crimes in Maplewood. Another could be the lower income people in Maplewood committing the crimes themselves, because Millburn has fewer low income people. I'm sure there are other rationales. But maybe I'm wasting my breath on a hypothetical scenario, if jfburch is right about the statistics. James O'Reilly, I'll bite: why were the basketball courts closed? Tom Reingold | ||
| James O' reilly Citizen Username: Highlander Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2003 |
Simple. Out-of-towners. | ||
| newjerz Citizen Username: Newjerz Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2003 |
jfburch - when you compared the census numbers of school aged children to the numbers enrolled, did you factor out M/SO kids going to private schools? Also I would submit to you that poor performance rather than race, combined with the resource usage issue, is the main motivation behind people wanting to get rid of illegal students. Furthermore, there is the issue of easy registration standards, whereby students who are not actually living in M/SO can legally register. ReallyTrying - I hope you're right . . . maybe that way I can use Morris County's golf courses without having to pay more cause I live in Essex. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 1604 Registered: 9-2001 |
Newjerz, "I'm curious if anyone can shed some light on what has happened to Irvington that has reduced it to such a state of disrepair. This issue of crime and disrepair will not go away easily, however, there is a good place to start if the people of Irvington cared enough to get organized and do something about it, and best of all, it won’t break the bank… Its been a long established fact that filth and garbage helps breed rats. Likewise, run down homes and properties, filth and garbage in the streets has been proven to be a breeding ground for drugs, crime, gangs, and is a sure sign of despair and hopelessness in the community. Irvington has become just such a place. The way people feel about where they live is often how they take care of, or neglect their surroundings. The fact is, residents who share a sense of pride in their community are more likely to present a strong deterrent to crime and decay. When residents are pushed out by dropping property values, rising taxes, declining schools, and violent streets; the void only invites worse criminal behavior. Criminals understand the retreat of residents as a sign they can do what ever they please. However, when people maintain their neighborhood, they tend to stay and neighborhood’s can regenerate themselves. Unfortunately, residents can’t do it alone. Therefore, if and when local government decides to clean up its streets of garbage, and write some legislation that forces residents to clean up their own properties, including the trash out by their curb, then, and only then will they begin to turn their town around. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 669 Registered: 6-2001 |
newjerz, yes, of course I considered private school students. See the "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics" thread for some detailed numbers. bobk also posted some other relevant numbers towards the end of the "Affirmative Action here?" thread. And performance is a complicated issue. Data disaggregated by race shows that white students here do as well or a bit better than white students of similar income levels in similar districts. Black students, problematically, do worse than black kids of similar--and somewhat lower--income levels in similar districts. This suggests that the problem lies not in our students, but in our schools. |
