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newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:08 pm: |     |
Anyone who commutes on NJ Transit to and from the city during rush hours knows the the trains are always very crowded. Most rides every seat will be taken and sometimes you can't even get a seat.
Has anyone else noticed how dumb the seating pattern that is practiced on these trains is? In the 3-seaters one person will sit at the window, one person will sit on the aisle, and then when a third wants to sit down, they say "Excuse me" and the person on the aisle gets out to let the third person sit in the middle.
Wouldn't it just make A LOT more sense for the person on the aisle to simply move over rather than getting out of his/her seat, holding up the whole line, and making the whole process more difficult for everyone involved.
I think it is incredibly immature (not to mention selfish) for grown adults to be so concerned with not sitting in the middle that they make the whole process so inefficient and difficult.
Although maybe we shouldn't be surprised because the people who have those seats are generally from those towns west of us, where being self-centered seems to run deep.
Anyway, I urge everyone to simply move over next time someone wants to join you in a 3 seater. Its really not a big deal, but its a nice gesture that I'm sure will be appreciated. |
#9Dream
Citizen
Username: 9dream
Post Number: 507
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:15 pm: | |
When I first moved to NJ (around 20 years ago) I commuted into NYC by bus. Same thing. Someone would get on, sit in the aisle seat even though the window seat was unoccupied, then get up to give the new arrival the window seat. Like it's going to get them off the bus that much more quickly if they're on the aisle. I never understood it. Once I was sitting on the aisle and slid over for someone and I got a very puzzled look, LOL. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1619
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:20 pm: | |
No problem, next time pass a little gas and keep the whole seat to yourself...  |
pmart
Citizen
Username: Pmart
Post Number: 90
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:37 pm: | |
On buses its a space thing. You can steal a little extra shoulder and leg space from the aisle once you hit the Turnpike. Especially if you get stuck with the "hump" seat.
On trains, same as above plus a leaning issue. No where to lean head. Then there's the being squished by not one, but two complete strangers thing. And some people have some pretty funky habits on the train. |
newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 36
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:44 pm: | |
Obviously its a space thing, but why be so selfish? Maybe I can understand if you were legitimately clausterphobic, but just saying that you don't want to be sitting between two strangers sounds pretty immature to me. |
pmart
Citizen
Username: Pmart
Post Number: 91
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 3:09 pm: | |
Just call me immature, then. I also request aisle or window seats when purchasing plane tickets.
BTW, what's so selfish about picking out (and keeping)a good spot for yourself when choices are available? Not removing a briefcases from an empty seat is selfish. Not moving and having people climb over you is selfish. Graciously standing up and permitting someone access to an empty seat is perfectly fine (IMHO). |
newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 37
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 3:25 pm: | |
One reason, it might be selfish is that it holds up the whole line and makes getting on the train a longer process.
My opinion of the practice might have something to do with the fact that as one of the last big stops on the line going into NYC, Maplewood passengers get the raw end of the deal since those from towns further west get those seats first. Anyway, I will continue to move over when the situation presents itself and I urge everyone else to do so too. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 224
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 3:54 pm: | |
newjerz, lets face it ,the train is a pain in the ass. So do like I do , get in your SUV {by yourself, hate talking to people in the AM}& blast into the city , using copious amounts of fuel& happily soiling the atmosphere as I go. |
johnh91011
Citizen
Username: Johnh91011
Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 4:15 pm: | |
I think it has a lot to do with comfort. Middle seats are not comfortable specially if you are between 2 heavier set people. The seats on the new NJ Transit trains are a little wider but not much. The aisles are narrower and the rest of the design is terrible. I would love to know the moron who designed the cars and the one who chose them to use on NJT.
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JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 72
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 4:28 pm: | |
I was on a standing room only train home last night and a Father with his approx 2-year old daughter arrived and could not find a seat. I was already standing but other people on the train could clearly given up their seats - and SHOULD have. They ended up sitting on the floor. Very nice. What are we talking about - at worst, standing for 1/2 hour? Is that so bad? I really don't understand what it is that turns people into such selfish animals. This is special behavior people save for the train and crowds - but remember - what you do comes back to you. I know this sounds corny but all you have to do to make your world a nicer place is to treat everyone as if there were your mother / grandmother / favorite niece/nephew. Don't honk, push or yell unless you really need to - we're all going to get there... |
johnh91011
Citizen
Username: Johnh91011
Post Number: 26
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 5:28 pm: | |
I don't think that refusing to scoot over to the middle seat is in the same league of selfishness as not giving your seat to the elderly, handicapped, pregnant women, or people carrying young kids or babies. I use to be one of the people that always got up to give my seat for a woman (by the way I am 45 yo) til I was given some glaring retort by the women like "NO I am fine" etc. I am still aware of who gets on and will try to accomodate those in need.
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bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3233
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 5:58 pm: | |
If you are over six feet and 200 pounds, sitting in the middle seat is really uncomfortable, especially if the guy or gal next to you hasn't mastered the "commuter fold" with their WSJ.
I always get up with a smile to let someone into the middle seat, but I think first come, first serve applies here.
BTW if I am on a train with only middle seats available, I stand.
I have tried to give my seats to the sick, lame and pregnant, but am usually turned down.
Newjerz, bet you are a little squirt. 
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Starr
Citizen
Username: Starr
Post Number: 11
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 6:40 pm: | |
I don't think those people are self centered at all. The middle seats are definitely the least desirable seats. The seating etiquette is the same on Long Island Rail Road and Metro North trains. It's accepted train etiquette understood and practiced by virtually all commuters.
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Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1788
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 6:59 pm: | |
Seating on NJT Trains is first come first served. It is only natural that the first people boarding the train would try to seek out the best seats for themselves. End seats on a three seater bench are more desireable than middle seats for a number of reasons: Window seats offer the best window view and/or natural light and that little ledge along the interior wall of the car makes an excellent foot rest. Window seats also offer an added back support for people who have to be concerned about such things. Aisle seats offer more air circulation, more leaning and foot room and an arm rest for added body support. The arm is also useful for supporting the shoulder strap of a slim attache case. Middle seats offer no such body support and give a general feeling of being squished, even when all three persons sharing the bench are extremely thin.
I have no problem with people seated in aisle seats standing to allow later arrivals to sit in the middle seats.
I have a greater problem with boarding the train with a friend and finding it impossible for us to get seats together because people travelling alone are occupying one of each of the two seat benches and two of each of the three seat benches.
I am also peeved when someone getting off at the next stop (Newark on a Dover bound train for example) insists on taking a window seat on a three seat bench and then forcing two people (middle and aisle seats) to get up so they can exit at their stop when the other riders are traveling farther down the line and when someone going to the last stop (Dover on a Dover-bound train for example) insists on occupying the aisle seat of a three seat bench and then falling into a deep sleep with a lap piled high with packages. By the time this person can be awakened and by the time he/she finds a place to put all the parcels being displaced by his/her standing up, you are lucky to make it to the aisle before the train leaves the station where you wanted to get off. |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 10:13 am: | |
NewJerz - you have GOT to be kidding me! It's not "selfish" or "immature" to get up out of your seat to allow someone to sit in the seat that is not occupied (i.e. the middle seat). It is incredibly uncomfortable sitting in the middle seat, not only because of the limited room in that seat, but you never know whether the passengers next to you will add insult to injury by conducting themselves in a way that leaves you with even less room. Like those who spread their newspaper out so much that they're either hitting the person in front of them in the head with it or sticking their elbows in the face of the person next to them. Or, the laptop user who doesn't quite know how to keep their elbows at their side or in front of them (although they know how to stick their elbows into the sides of the person next to them as they're typing). Or, let's see - how about all of the people who don't know how to sit with their legs together?? I don't think some people (particularly men) realize this, but letting your legs just fall as far to each side as they can go while sitting really shouldn't be an option. (And, before anyone jumps on that one -- I'm not even talking about people with a weight issue or who are tall who need more room -- I don't have a problem with that - if you need more room, you need more room, no problem. I'm talking about people who spread themselves out as much as they feel like it, as though they're sitting there in a big comfy recliner...)
It takes about 6 seconds to get up and let someone in, allowing the rest of the people to pass in the aisle. People who are sitting in the aisle seat should be ready to get up in an expedient manner to let the person through and keep the people in the aisle moving. Particularly on the route home, while waiting at Penn -- people shouldn't make themselves at home too much if they're sitting in the aisle and the middle and/or window seat(s) are empty -- they should be prepared to get up and allow someone through right away.
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Rex Rocker
Citizen
Username: Rex_rocker
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 10:31 am: | |
the middle seat is for suckers. |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1649
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 11:33 am: | |
If I'm sitting on the aisle in a theater and someone comes to sit in the same row should I move in towards the center? |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 73
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 9:43 am: | |
When did they start running movies on the train? Cool! |
newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 40
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 1:35 pm: | |
I see that I am getting slammed at my suggestion of promoting generosity and efficiency on the trains.
By the way lseltzer, I don't see any reason why not to move in, however its a little bit different because you can just stand up to let them pass rather than getting out into the aisle and holding up traffic. Also, if there is a single seat in a crowded movie theater on either side of me and a couple wants to sit down, I definitely would move over one so they could sit down. |
Mr. Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 294
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 2:22 pm: | |
That's nice of you, newjerz. It really is. However, I don't think etiquette requires you to do this.
Tom Reingold
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pmart
Citizen
Username: Pmart
Post Number: 92
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 2:22 pm: | |
newjerz - I don't believe that generosity is the issue. Rather, it's more about entitlement.
While a person may be doing a very kind thing by moving over on the train, or in a crowded theater, that individual should not be perceived as selfish by not doing so.
Regarding your movie scenario, if it is really important for a couple to sit together in the theater, they should arrive early like everyone else. If someone is willing to move, great! However, it should not be taken for granted that others will be willing to accommodate the latecomers' needs. |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 74
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 2:24 pm: | |
Newjerz,
Don't feel too bad. Of course you are right. It is hard to understand how people get so focused and fixated on their seat on the train to the exclusion of other human beings. It is disappointing to see - and even more disappointing that they defend the behavior here. We're all going to the same place - a little lightness and consideration would make it nicer for everyone. And would not cost anyone 1 minute of their time. |
joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 98
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 4:57 pm: | |
Travelling on the train is mostly a privelege and these petty annoyances are not really worth the discussion. It beats driving by a long shot. |
woodstock
Citizen
Username: Woodstock
Post Number: 266
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 5:17 pm: | |
Let's say I am getting off at the next stop (say, Newark). Do I move in, thereby forcing the person I just let in to get up when I want to get off, or do I give them the middle seat, allowing them to stay seated while I get up at my stop?
Or should I stand so that someone riding to Dover can have a nice long nap the whole way?
When flying JetBlue or some other "seat yourself" airline, should I give up the aisle seat so that someone doesn't have to go into the middle seat, holding up the line of boarding passengers?
I think what you're doing is very noble, newjerz, but way above and beyond the call.
Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him |
Craig Kline
Citizen
Username: Cmk
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 5:49 pm: | |
Please forgive me in advance newjerz, but I am quite tall and always prefer to get up to allow someone to the middle seat rather than slide over and be uncomfortable in the middle myself. I can even cheat into the aisle a bit when I do this--which helps the comfort level of the person in the middle. With that said I would never ask and I would never expect anyone sitting in the aisle to move into the less comfortable middle seat so I can be a bit more comfortable. If you do that for me someday I say many thank yous, but it is not necessary. |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 75
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 6:23 pm: | |
I think we are getting hung up on a specific situation. It's not about if you're wearing a blue hat and want to have an aisle seat while you eat a banana - it's about being observant and considerate of those around you. I am afraid some the 'flock' has been lost and will never get the bigger message. But that is not good enough. We need to treat each other and ourselves better - especially in these smaller ways. That is the point. It doesn't mean you have to slide over or give your seat away - it is not a new set of rules. It is a new way to think. Now - be still, don't judge and think about it for a minute. ..tick..tock.. There - now you have evolved, try being aware of and good to yourself and others for 1 commute. It will make you feel better. You might still have to sit next to the bad newpaper folder or the 250# man but instead of trying to out-nasty each other while elbowing someone's Aunt Jane out of the way, you can expent that energy in a positive way - and take it through the day. |
Private Citizen
Citizen
Username: Privatecitizen
Post Number: 33
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 9, 2003 - 8:59 pm: | |
>>Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 4:57 pm:
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joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 98
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 4:57 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Travelling on the train is mostly a privelege and these petty annoyances are not really worth the discussion. It beats driving by a long shot.
<<
I agree.
However, I also beleive in the theory of "first come, first served". I believe the right to chose the end or middle seat, if one is granted that right, is a valuable option (possibly worthy of Black-Scholes modeling)
As a possible mitigating circumstance to the plight of the "middle-seater" you might consider that those who get on the train first in the morning are also among the last ones to get home going back in the evening. So, which is worse for you: sitting in a middle seat or a 1+ hour train ride? You be the judge.
No free lunch here.
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Ignatius J
Citizen
Username: Ignatius_j
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 2:32 am: | |
--I think it is incredibly immature (not to mention selfish) for grown adults--
That's where you're making your error in judgement. People don't really ever "grow up" they just grow older.
Every where you look in the world you see adults acting like they did when they were in grade school and even leaders of powerful countries acting like immature children on a global playground. |
Ignatius J
Citizen
Username: Ignatius_j
Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 2:37 am: | |
--Don't honk, push or yell--
That's not true. Every time you honk your horn in a traffic jam another car disappears. So, the more you honk, the faster you will get where you're going. It's basic physics. |
deadwhitemale
Citizen
Username: Deadwhitemale
Post Number: 370
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 10:33 pm: | |
It does not disappear; it relocates to another jam.
It's basic traffic physics.
DWM |
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