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Message |
    
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 64
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 9:20 pm: |     |
Our town looked much nicer before all the vinyl windows sprouted block by block--
remember when all the houses' "eyes" were wood and beautiful and charming?
Not flat and cheap($159.99 per unit, installed) by some "renovation" company likewise adorning the homes of New Jersey in petrochemical waste.
"we TOLD you so...."
If your heating bills are escalating remember that wood windows are excellent insulators. You can fix the old ones and you can buy new wood windows. If you're thinking about selling your tudor fantasy many purchasers like houses that have windows somewhat in character and form as the rest of the house.
I know this is a superficial topic given the current state of the world, but it was on my mind, as usual, today.
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marken
Citizen
Username: Marken
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 11:18 pm: | |
While I haven't yet noticed the proliferation of vinyl windows 'round town, I do have them in my recently purchased house. I, too, would prefer wood, but the previous owner wanted to "spruce it up" .... mmm-hmmm.
Anyway, now I have to install 3 A/Cs in these vinyl windows, but know I need some help / advice. Sure, I could have had them "professionally" installed, but since PC Richards charges $120 PER WINDOW for install, I'll spend my $$ elsewhere. |
llama
Citizen
Username: Llama
Post Number: 189
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 12:42 am: | |
The windows are one thing, but the siding is another, and there are whole communities being built with it. It's the way it is now. No maintenance livin." |
Mergele
Citizen
Username: Mergele
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 7:21 am: | |
Precisely why I bought my 80-something year-old money pit! The windows are all original (of course, when I moved in they had been painted shut - from the outside - for a generation or two), my exterior siding is the original cedar, my interior doors have all the original hardware... I could go on.
I'm with you, Virgilian - cheap vinyl replacement windows ought to be outlawed. Blech!
"Cats climb because being ruler of all you survey sucks when all you survey is ankles." -- Unknown |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 734
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 12:43 pm: | |
Marken: Have a friend with the same problem. Bought a house with those kind of windows. Decided to put in central ac. Says it's best investment he ever made. |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 263
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 8:02 am: | |
Okay, I admit it. I replaced wood windows with vinyl windows, only because I could not afford rehabbing or replacing with wood windows. Similarly, I'd love to replace our aluminum siding with something more appropriate, but again, cost is (and always will be) the driving factor behind our decision making. If only I were rich.
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mim
Citizen
Username: Mim
Post Number: 271
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 12:07 pm: | |
I'd like to offer some HOPE to those who, like thegoodsgt, believe they can't rehab their old wood windows. I thought replacement was my only option too, but I couldn't stomach the look OR the high price tag. Eventually, thru Jaeger Lumber, I discovered a local contractor who rehabbed six existing double-hung wood windows AND replaced the falling-apart storm windows for about $1000. Now my windows are reasonably energy-efficient and they glide up and down like new ones. So, you see there ARE other options. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 662
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 12:46 pm: | |
Mim - could you post the name of that contrator. Thanks. |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 265
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 2:29 pm: | |
mim, NOW you tell me!!
Anyone want to buy nine, slightly used vinyl windows? (You must not live in M/SO.) |
mim
Citizen
Username: Mim
Post Number: 272
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 3:30 pm: | |
Sorry about that! I was totally stunned myself, since homeowners are always told that replacement is the only solution. Chris and Paul Black were the contractors we used -- I can't locate the number at the moment, but I believe their shop is in Union. (If all else fails, call Jaeger, as I did -- I think the Blacks order the storms from them, so Jaeger recommends them.) |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 7:25 pm: | |
I replaced all of the windows in my house--three full stories--with Tru Thermals because I was sick of wooden windows that stuck or fell down and nearly decapitated me. I was sick of my hideous old storm windows and my crumbling screens, and I was sick of losing heat heat in the winter and cool air in the summer. I was sick of scraping off the lead paint on the wooden windows. Vinyl windows have no lead paint. My Tru Thermal windows look at least two hundred percent better than the old wooden ones. And by the way, we could have fixed the old ones--we did fix the old ones--over and over and over again.
Finally, why is it anybody else's business what kind of windows a person chooses to use in his or her home? Who appointed anybody the arbiter of what is OK around here? Some people need to get a life.
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James O' reilly
Citizen
Username: Highlander
Post Number: 42
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 7:48 pm: | |
Reminds me of the old joke about the blonde who had vinyl replacement windows installed in her house.
The window company called her two years later demanding to be paid.
Her response? "The salesman told me the windows would pay for themselves in two years!"
[groan] |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 67
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 7:49 pm: | |
Lizziecat,
sorry I offended you, I just wanted to encourage others to do other than you have. The town is losing some lovely houses to "improvements" more suitable to new manufactured housing.
It is not my business, but my opinion, that the rapid spread of these windows is changing the townscape for the worst. I don't personally want to see every street, mine for example, having those flat white muntins, the oil-canning glazing, and glaring white vinyl frames.
As to being an appointed arbiter, I'm sure if I told you to restore your windows to wood you would not. And as this is the "Soapbox," I thought it worthwhile to express an opinion. There is no requirement for anybody in our town to follow my decrees.
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llama
Citizen
Username: Llama
Post Number: 190
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 8:32 pm: | |
I think there may be vinyl people too! |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1636
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 9:08 pm: | |
Good for you Lizziecat,
I did the same with my old windows a few years ago. BTW, the windows were not cheap by any standard. They all had to be custom made to look exactly like the original ones, plus I would really be surprised if anyone would even notice the difference from Brooklyn anyway. 
Personally, I believe if the world had vinyl windows 163 years ago, that's what most everyone would have used. I wonder, does anyone have any idea how many new home builders in America are still building with wood windows?
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mwsilva
Citizen
Username: Mwsilva
Post Number: 369
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 9:53 pm: | |
I just want to add. Jgberkeley took us around to several homes where he replaced windows with high end Pella windows and then let us play with the windows in his home.
After that we ordered and had him install 3 windows. Then he taught us how to install them ourselves and we have since replaced 11 windows on our own. We even buy our windows using his contractor discount.
I have to say, no one we have found can tell that we have new windows that are air tight storm free and double pane.
You really have to think about this. I am sure other MOL people have used him and should post their experience.
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Maplewoody
Citizen
Username: Maplewoody
Post Number: 258
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 11:17 pm: | |
mwsilva,
What is the avg. cost per window for the Pella brand? Just curious, we have OLD wooden windows that need replacing!
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bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3242
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 7:52 am: | |
Unless you want to spend mucho bucks even high quality wood replacement windows such as Pella don't have true divided lights and don't look all that good with those snap on or glued on grills.
Most of the 1920s and earlier homes here have six over one or nine over one true divided light windows.
Keep the old windows and renovate them.
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virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 68
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 8:57 am: | |
ajc,
Good houses are still being built with wood windows. Cheap tract houses, mobile homes, and rehabilitated subsidized housing generally feature vinyl windows.
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shoshannah
Citizen
Username: Shoshannah
Post Number: 182
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 10:35 am: | |
I have been following this debate for a long time, as I feel conflicted about wood vs. vinyl. Obviously, wood is preferable, albeit EXPENSIVE. But what tipped the scales in favor of vinyl for us was this: Every elegant prewar apartment building in the city has replaced its original wood windows with new, nonwood ones (usually aluminum-framed). So we figured if it's good enough for the architectural wonders on Riverside, West End, Park, and Sutton Place, it's good enough for us. |
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 681
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 10:42 am: | |
The other thing to remember is that vinyl windows too can be replaced. It's not a permanent or destructive change. One could upgrade vinyl to wood later, or in a house purchased with vinyl if one could or chose to afford it. Granted, most folks with working windows won't bother, but it doesn't require an absurdly expensive restoration to undo.
Personally, I am stuck on the old ones and will be looking into the refurbishment strategy. |
bets
Citizen
Username: Bets
Post Number: 356
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 11:56 am: | |
Chris & Paul Black (C&P Black, Inc.) (908) 688-8582 |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 72
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 2:41 pm: | |
Three cheers for C&P Black
Hooray
Hooray
Hooray |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 73
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 2:50 pm: | |
jfburch,
You're right about being able to go back to wood windows.
One problem is that a house near mine last year had its eyes(windows) gouged out and replaced with the plastic ones; they put in muntin-less windows bearing no trace of the original, beautiful, patterns (of the casements, double hungs, etc. with incredible 80 year old wavy antique glass, suddenly deemed obsolete.) All these were combined on what used to be a very interesting house. I'm sure through old postcards and vintage photos the patterns and details could be reconstructed; I hope I'm around when some new owner tries to remedy damage to the poor old house(I have an old postcard.) |
llama
Citizen
Username: Llama
Post Number: 192
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 5:49 pm: | |
When I bought my home, one of the first things I thought was so great was the old wavy glass. It just gives the place soul & character. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 74
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 6:27 pm: | |
Shoshannah: Why didn't you look instead at the wonders around you in Maplewood? The best still with wood windows intact? |
doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 236
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 1:20 pm: | |
Marken or Anon: My son just bought a 100 year-old house which has some vinyl replacement windows. Is there a problem with installing window air conditoners in the replacement windows? Thanks in advance. |
virgilian
Citizen
Username: Virgilian
Post Number: 77
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 9, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
doublea-- If they're plastic windows I'd worry about the hot a/c unit cooking the petroleum-waste "window frame" and the toxic fumes killing everyone in the house.
Not really, I guess. The degradation of the pvc is a slower, larger environmental problem. |
marken
Citizen
Username: Marken
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 4:17 pm: | |
Doublea -
Installing an AC in a vinyl window is certainly possible, it just isn't as easy or neat as with a wooden frame window. Here are some issues I've noticed:
WEIGHT: Most window A/Cs (which weigh at least 60 lbs, for just a 5000 BTU model) are designed to sit on a deep, sturdy window sill, the kind you find in wooden double-hung windows. Put that same hefty weight on a vinyl window and look out below!
FIT: My particular vinyl windows are installed within the actual wood window frame, so the bottom of the vinyl window frame is approx 2" above the sturdy wood window sill. so there isn't really a "sill" on the vinyl part of the window, instead I have a two separate vinyl ridges at the bottom into which the closed window slides .... inside, a narrow 1/8" ; and outside approx 1 1/2". Because vinyl is more flexible than wood, you may have place the AC on extra wood support that are screwed into (or placed on) your window sill to raise the AC above the bottom of vinyl portion. We were able to place wood between the two ridges, then we placed the ACs on this wood, effectively raising them above the thin vinyl portion.
INSULATION: The accordion wings that close the gap between the AC and the window sides are designed for wood windows. These cannot be drilled/secured into a vinyl window. Also, there are extra gaps and the fit isn't as snug as a wood window.
However you install your AC, be sure to wedge wooden blocks between the raised window and the top of the frame. This will place downward pressure on your AC, giving it a more secure install.
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doublea
Citizen
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 245
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 4:32 pm: | |
Thank you for your responses. Virgilain: since they're already in, they'll just have to deal with them (and be thrilled they were able to buy a house in this heated market.) Marken: Thanks for your lengthy and detailed expanlation. I'll be sure my son prints out your post. I'm sure it will be very helpful. |
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