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Message |
    
mtierney
Citizen
Username: Mtierney
Post Number: 380
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 3:13 pm: |     |
Forgive me if this has been discussed elsewhere, but where is the uproar over the alleged sale of the Dunnell Building adjacent to PH to a private law firm? This site could have created a wonderful centrally located municipal facility - across from town hall. The original building of course once housed public works.
I ask this because just recently the TC hired an architectural firm to study this site, along with the Verizon building, and the existing PH.
Is it true that the TC never talked to the Dunnell people to alert them what the town was considering or studying? Who dropped that very large ball?
Or was the decision to move the PH over the other side of Springfield Avenue already set in stone regardless of expensive feasibility studies?
Issues that affect this town and its taxpayers must be examined more that three weeks before election day! |
nova87
Citizen
Username: Nova87
Post Number: 233
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 3:16 pm: | |
Ml1 - its not ludicrous. That's why I rarely if ever post nowadays. Its not a liberal/conservative thing, its more of a I'm smarter than you are attitude. People here are so set in their ways that there is just no room for the possibility that opposing views exist. I found myself guilty of it and I thought that I was exacerbating the problem.
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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1321
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 3:54 pm: | |
mtierney- very interesting. Yes, where is the uproar?
And where is ajc, chiming in to change this thread into one that revolves around him? Oh yea, he did that already early on in this thread! Just kidding, art, love ya guy! Me want pancakes. Me want a Strawberry shake to go with those panners. Me miss Sportsy, without sportsy, I wouldn't have had some really good discussions on the Edu threads. I'm not joking. Controversy is what works, here on MOL, imho. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1830
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 4:51 pm: | |
Well I was just kidding... |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1818
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 5:11 pm: | |
I miss the interaction we used to have with TC members in the Soapbox. It gave me the feeling, real or imagined, that by discussing issues of local concern in a public forum we might actually be able to work out problems and come up with creative ideas to influence change for the better. |
Rex Rocker
Citizen
Username: Rex_rocker
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 5:45 pm: | |
Had a chance to meet Ken Pettis last weekend. Nice guy full of wonderful ideas. I am convinced once he knocks off Ed May and co. in November, interaction with TC members on MOL will once again kick off. He indicated as much.
And one more thing, Joan. Jerry Ryan was parading around this site using the name Ignatius for a while, so chances are you were indeed still interacting with TC members, though you may not have realized it. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1665
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 6:01 pm: | |
"Is it true that the TC never talked to the Dunnell people to alert them what the town was considering or studying?"
Ffof,
I'm here... Mtierney has it right, it's true.
It came from the owners lips to my ears. He said he learned about the towns interest by reading about it in the newspaper. When he spoke to the town attorney, Roger allegedly said he was not really involved, didn't know what was going on, or something to that affect. It really doesn’t matter anymore, does it?
Actually the owner said he originally bought the property from the town anyway. It's a shame, it appears there was too much talk and too little action.
So what else would you like to know? |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1819
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 6:28 pm: | |
Rex Rocker:
I know for a fact that many of the TC members still read the Soapbox regularly as do at least three of the four candidates for TC in the coming election in November. They have told me as much in private conversations off line.
However, it is a real plus when an official comes on line in a discussion about local issues and shares with us what the town is doing on a specific issue or why a suggested idea is or is not apt to work based on their practical experience and/or information they may be privy to which we are not.
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Ignatius
Citizen
Username: Ignatius
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 1, 2003 - 9:00 pm: | |
Nice try, Lee. I'm not Jerry, though. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1668
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 12:21 am: | |
Jerry? Lee? Who, Lewis? I hate these inside conversations when you have no clue who's who, and what's up... talk about drift! |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1822
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 9:17 am: | |
Last night as I watched the film Pleasantville for the first time, I couldn't help but think of the direction of posts to this thread. Pleasantville starts out as a pleasant 50s-sitcom suburb in which everyone smiles, speaks politely, and continues to say and do everything in the same pleasant way day in and day out as they live through yet another episode in the wonderful world of repeats on a TV Land-type cable station marathon.
Then one day two outsiders (I'm new to Pleasantville) literally get sucked into town via the CRT in their livingroom. Their very presence is enough to change Pleasantville forever.
Naturally, the founding fathers (this is 50s TV before the popularization of women's lib and other potentially subversive counter-culture movements) object to having people in town behaving differently from everyone else. They react by publishing a code of conduct which among other things states that you have to be pleasant to everyone. The people rebel. The outsiders leave. The original residents are left to face the fact that things have changed for ever and they can no longer predict the direction their lives will take.
MOL has been undergoing such a transition for a while now. Some of the more outrageous posters (from the mainstream poster's point of view) have been banished or have withdrawn voluntarily. It is up to those remaining to determine where we will go from here but one thing is clear: too strict an enforcement of too strict a code of conduct will kill the originality, spontenaity(sp?), and challenging viewpoints which have made MOL so special.
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4949
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 10:58 am: | |
personal attacks have never been allowed |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1670
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 12:33 pm: | |
I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with you Joan...
Do you really believe that the challenging viewpoints that have made MOL so special have nothing to do with having a strict a code of conduct. A strict code of conduct will not kill the originality, spontaneity, or the challenging viewpoints of MOL. However, it could help erode the pride we all have in our community.
For anyone who wants to engage in personal bashing, smut and foul mouthing comments, or wants to be rude, inconsiderate, or say whatever they please; there are plenty of other places they can find on-line to exercise those rights. But please, not here on MOL!
Just think about the name, “Maplewood” On Line! Where do we live? Who are we as a community? And, how do most of us want to be perceived by the world as inhabitants of this community?
Thank you Dave for all you do… and keep up the good work! |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1826
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 5:18 pm: | |
Dave:
Personal attacks should NEVER be allowed; neither should personal threats. One of the great things about MOL is the supportive feeling that many of us get as we become more involved with the MOL community, whether as regular posters or as regular lurkers.
My comments in my immediate prior post were directed towards Jeffl's contention that there was nothing to talk about on MOL these days (the post which started this thread)followed by the dialog highlighting Strawberry's overall posting tone and Sportsnut's and M/1's reaction which lead to Sportsnut's suspension.
The bottom line is MOL is a work in progress which will become whatever we the posters want it to be. A little tolerance of others and appreciation of the variety of philosophies and posting styles of the people in our diverse community will go a long way to making MOL stronger than ever. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 5:40 pm: | |
Sounds to me like you've got a new partner Dave... |
Insite
Citizen
Username: Insite
Post Number: 100
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 6:19 pm: | |
the real problem with MOL is the moderator's left slant on issues. He calls attacking a liberal point of view a personal attack, but then he allows threads such as "I HATE BUSH". If I respond with a not to pleasant trashing, I'm suspended, not the rude poster who attacked our President.
What Mr. Ross needs to do is quit the message game he's playing and watch the ship instead. There are many Republicans in Maplewood who find the soapbox a joke. To a degree, they're right. Fix the mess you created, Mr. Ross. You can start by asking Straw and Sportsnut to return. Removing them, was just plain wrong.
And to those Liberals who disagree I say to damn bad.
A few Republicans here and there could spice up the joint. |
duncanrogers
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 643
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 7:48 pm: | |
Insite once again you raise the bar of discussion here. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1614
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 8:25 pm: | |
To say, "I hate Bush", is not a personal attack. A personal attack is of the form, "Bush is an a**" or "Tjohn is an a**". Dave struggles to control those people who can't distinguish between attacking an idea and attacking an individual.
All points of view (excluding neo-Nazism, homophobia, etc.) are more than welcome on this board. A reasonable expectation is that poseters present their points of view using reasonable language. If you have to attack the individual, then it is quite likely that your point of view is without substance.
Now with regard to this board being unfriendly to conservatives, I seem to recall taking a fair amount of heat for my arguments against attacking Hussein. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4950
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 9:02 pm: | |
Ideology has nothing to do with getting suspended. It's who degrades debate by making personal attacks. Don't make them and there's no suspension. It's that simple. If name-calling is "spicing things up" then find another message board or open your window and scream at your neighbors and see how you like that spiced up lifestyle.
It's all about personal responsibility. |
Maplewoody
Citizen
Username: Maplewoody
Post Number: 266
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 10:17 pm: | |
Dave,
Insite called me RUDE!
 |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 1896
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 11:05 pm: | |
Insite: With all due respect, your last post was not grounded in reality.
Let me explain. Once upon a time, our country went to war not too long ago. We denizens of this little online community had different opinions about whether that was a good idea, and about whether our country could achieve its goals through other means. We had different opinions about it. I held an opinion which (I believe) was not held by you, or by many other participants, including our moderator (and Sb-what's-his-name). Through it all, people with different opinions managed to voice them without resorting to garbage (mostly).
So, your premise is, to use the vernacular, crap.
'night. |
ian
Citizen
Username: Ian
Post Number: 135
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 1:39 am: | |
Dave's so sexy when he's strict.
It's hard to define "personal attack", but I think we can go by the oft-used "attack the post, not the poster". Of course, sometimes it's just so TEMPTING to really let someone have it... |
CFA
Citizen
Username: Cfa
Post Number: 948
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 6:15 am: | |
I miss all of the posters from years ago. It was fun to post. We actually had people go into the chat room to chat. Some of the newer posters are cool but others are very...well, let's just say it aint like it used to be. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1676
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 8:59 am: | |
Don’t you just love it when some posters get nostalgic… they become so real? |
CFA
Citizen
Username: Cfa
Post Number: 950
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 8:11 pm: | |
I thought we were ignoring each other |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1679
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 9:03 pm: | |
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I owe you one.... |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 740
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 10:42 pm: | |
Jeffl started this thread by complaining how boring things had become. How nice of you all to come to his rescue and entertain him! |
jeffl
Citizen
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 153
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 11:32 pm: | |
Honestly, I haven't even read 2/3 of the thread. It careened off into some MOL innerspace that only those in the know would find of interest.
Apologies for mis-posting my post about volleyball.
I guess the next time I'll find MOL interesting is when there's another debate over who the Democratics are going to support for the TC.
How long do I have to wait? |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1683
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 4, 2003 - 10:42 am: | |
"I'll find MOL interesting when there's another debate over who the Democrats are going to support for the TC."
Get real Jeffl, what debate? With the backlash over dumping Vic and Jerry in June, there are at least 1600 Democrats voting Republican, or not at all... Don’t think for a minute everyone is going to kiss and make up just to elect another Democrat on the township committee. There’s some bad blood out there, and it goes a lot further than just town politics.
Hey, with the election less than 90 days off, how long do you want to wait anyway? The Republicans in this town are ready, willing, and looking for someone to debate the issues with now!!! What is the voting public interested in? The Democrats have had the helm for over ten years now. Is everyone happy with our taxes, the police department issue, education, crime, etc. etc. etc.
You want issues? We’ll give you more issues than you can shake a stick at! Lets start with fiscal responsibility for openers. You can bet Maplewood has some serious problems when the town administrator says publicly that the town is having trouble meeting its financial obligations on time.
Go for it Jeffl... |
Mr. Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 315
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 4, 2003 - 10:58 am: | |
I don't consider "I hate Bush" to be a personal attack, since Bush isn't a member of MOL. Also, Bush is a public figure and should expect people to voice strong opinions about him.
I can't imagine being rude to someone here. This is different from online groups, because the people here are my neighbors.
There's a guy here who holds political views that I disagree with. But I met him, as he lives right down my block, and he's a nice guy. I really don't want or need any friction. And when you come down to it, political views have little to do with how you get along with someone. I don't feel that people's value is somehow lessened if they don't share my worldview.
Tom Reingold
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mtierney
Citizen
Username: Mtierney
Post Number: 382
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 4, 2003 - 11:13 am: | |
Yo! I think the reason why MOL is dull is that there is too much time spent analyzing hurt feelings.
Issues?: Try the one I referred to regarding the police headquarters! And, related to that, dealing with the apparent inside angst among our police officers, I believe the TC needs to focus and resolve the personnel issues.
Another town wants out of Essex County. Now I believe Roseland, Millburn/Short Hills, Montclair are making the feelings about the taxes we pay to the county. Sure, maybe, it's battling windmills, but at least with enough towns screaming at the property tax issue something may break.
Frankly, with Maplewood firmly in the Democratic stronghold and beholden to county dems if we stood up as a community (SO too) we just might make waves in Trenton and elsewhere.
High property taxes beat up us all, no matter what our party.
Now Newark wants to put its adult welfare recipients on the County rolls!
Like I said, we got issues! |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1329
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 4, 2003 - 12:39 pm: | |
Newark and the county gov are the problems. Have you been to the county courthouse? (disgusting.) And everything in the county is handled via the buddy system. (Vinny's guy, Joey's guy, Frankie, you get the picture) THere are no thinkers, yet there is big payroll. It's a waste. If we can't get rid of county gov all together (this should be able to work), then Newark should be taken over by the state. |
copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 36
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 4, 2003 - 6:04 pm: | |
Newark should be set adrift in the Atlantic. |
mtierney
Citizen
Username: Mtierney
Post Number: 384
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 10:34 pm: | |
Is it me? Or have we had a significant number of new posters of late? Maybe all these newbees will liven up the discussions - or are they the same folks with fresh ids? Dave?
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5007
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:35 pm: | |
Well, I've met a few in real life, so I think they may be real unless they've gone to extraordinary lengths to hide their tracks.
btw, I kind of like Newark. Great jazz clubs, a decent minor league team, the largest collection of Tibetan art in the USA, and some pretty awesome restaurants. |
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