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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 1739
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:22 am: |     |
This will be my last post in this thread… There’s enough hate already in this world without me discussing anything more under this disgusting titled thread! So let me close up a few final comments...
Duncan, I can’t figure you out? Are you a character actor, or just a character? What’s with you and “Oh, never mind”, and now (DELETED) ??? Speak your mind man! Trust me, I can handle anything you have to say…
BTW Tjohn, while I’m closing up here, just one more one!
“if there is some vital national interest that can only be guaranteed by means of war.”
Think about this if you will? What more vital interest can there be than “Peace of Mind”? In the entire world, I personally can’t think of any greater peace than that of Peace of mind… What are you waiting for man, don’t you get it? They’re not negotiating with us, they’re coming to kill us and everything we stand for! Just read this mornings Star Ledger, “FED’S IN NEWARK FOIL TERROR MISSILE PLOT” The plot has been going on for over two years, and you still think talking to them is going to stop them?
Tell me, what do you think most people think about when they get on a plane, or go up in a tall building, or even sitting in an outdoor café? Would you say they’re more attentive to the dangers around them, and when they travel? I think so!
So, do you really only plan to defend freedom, peace, and Democracy by just talking about it? We live in a world inhabited with millions of religious fanatics, many of who hate us so much they’re willing to kill themselves just to blow up a few more innocent men, women, and children for their God!
I believe that any ill conceived, high minded ideas that promotes the idea that freedom and democracy comes from the heart, and should only be protected by a gun when necessary, is foolish. It’s only creating a false hope for the safety and the future well-being of generations of Americans, and in reality the free world. We must take the fight to them where ever they are. Every freedom hating, murdering dictator; any country threatening or defiant to our rights of freedom must be opposed.
It’s really hard for me to stop thinking about some of your comments. IMHO, you have everything all backwards, the reality is “freedom and democracy, unlike dictatorships,” only comes from those with big enough hearts, and the guts to be willing to fight for it.
You might be willing to settle looking over your shoulder, or some day down the barrel of a gun, but I would rather take my chances looking over the sights of a gun, than down the barrel of it any day. Good luck…. |
duncanrogers
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 665
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:38 am: | |
Art.. rein in that ego. Or do you simply assume everything is always about you? |
duncanrogers
Citizen
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 666
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:41 am: | |
Ok art.. take it easy. Not everything on MOL is about you as much as you might like it to be. Rein in that ego. |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 138
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:59 pm: | |
I just watched Bush's press conference at his ranch. One word always comes to mind - "churlish." He sure hates to be interrupted. |
newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 107
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:24 pm: | |
I'll say this, I voted for Bush and I definitely consider myself a conservative, but the way he carries himself and the way things seem to be conducted in this administration are beginning to bother me. Although I generally think that the ends being pursued are generally correct, the process is also important.
To some extent, I think he is being given a raw deal by Democrats who have decided to try to thwart him at every turn (much like the way the Republicans behaved during the Clinton years). He came to Washington promising to make the political discourse of this country more civil and while I certainly hold Democrats responsible for a lot of the problems, Bush is also to blame. I get the sense that he and his administration have retreated into bunker down, we're 100% right, leave us alone mode which is not good for his Presidency or the country.
I think that there needs to be a return to reason in Washington. Clinton was not as bad as Republicans made him out to be, Bush is not as bad as Democrats make him out to be. I think it is important that the next President really be able to work with both parties. If the Democrats nominate Howard Dean and he goes on to win, it will be all out war for the next 4 years. Therefore, I think it is imperative that the Democrats nominate someone like Lieberman. If they do, there's a decent chance that they could draw me and others like me over to their side. |
James
Citizen
Username: Mcgregorj
Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:25 pm: | |
newjerz said:
"Therefore, I think it is imperative that the Democrats nominate someone like Lieberman. If they do, there's a decent chance that they could draw me and others like me over to their side."
If they do, there's a 100% chance that they could draw me and others like me away from their side. |
newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 108
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:39 pm: | |
I assume you are saying that if they did that it would drive you to the green party or a more liberal candidate?
If that is what you are saying thats fair enough. My point was that there seems to be this notion that they only way the Democrats can win the election is if they differentiate themselves from Bush as much as possible and I'm saying that might not be the case. I get the sense that a lot of Americans while generally pleased with Bush, they would prefer someone who is a more careful, thoughtful, and nuanced person, and more liberal on domestic policy. I guess the Democrats will have to gauge the risk of driving people such as yourself away from the party (and thus splitting the vote as happened in 2000) if they nominate Leiberman against the gains they might achieve by attracting those who are mildly upset with Bush but not so upset as to vote for a Howard Dean. It should be interesting. |
James
Citizen
Username: Mcgregorj
Post Number: 28
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 4:14 pm: | |
It's definitely going to be interesting. I think that the Democrats are in for some serious upheaval.
And yeah, I voted for Ralph last time around. |
James
Citizen
Username: Mcgregorj
Post Number: 29
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 4:16 pm: | |
And if I had it to do over, I'd do it again. |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 652
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 4:43 pm: | |
I wish jockeying for position was not such an inherent aspect of politics. I don't care what party you're from, who your daddy is, or how much money you have. I simply want to know what you have accomplished so far, what you believe the 20 or 30 most pressing issues facing your consituents are, and what you intend to do about them. Those three questions should be in a mandatory questionnaire to be filled out by candidates for any elected position, and published in all the major newspapers and on the internet. |
FreeTibet
Citizen
Username: Freetibet
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 6:20 pm: | |
All through history, there are significant points in time that are evaluated the same way every time, by comparing to the past experiences and not looking far enough into the future. If we don’t act now and right the horrible course the world is taking, then what do we have to look forward to but more dictatorships and evil empires.
We have the power, we have the intelligence (minus most of those on this post right now) and we need to have the will. Liberia is backing down for no other reason than "they have no choice". We don’t want to conquer anyone (as many of these conspirator theorists would have you believe), just free the people (and hopefully get rid of bunch of the lunatic leaders at the same time) …
“War makes peace, through war comes peace, and cant we all just have peace (through war, of course)”
- Granpa Jamgon Kongtrul
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harpo
Citizen
Username: Harpo
Post Number: 909
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 7:04 pm: | |
People sincerely interested in the future of the Tibetan people, instead of the by now familiar frightened views of a much-reincarnated MOL reactionary tastelessly posing as a progressive liberal, might want to read the Dalai Lama's Nobel Prize acceptance speech:
http://www.tibet.com/DL/nobelaccept.html
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Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 7:15 pm: | |
This should be it's own thread..
"People sincerely interested in the future of the Tibetan people"
Both of you can go nuts!
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FreeTibet
Citizen
Username: Freetibet
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 7:16 pm: | |
i liked mine better, but thanks.
buy a bum a bottle and you drive him into ruin, buy a bum a pack of cigarettes and you get a vote
- democratic party of illinois, new york and atlanta 2000 |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1110
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 7:52 pm: | |
Another cut-and-paste job, but this is good. In the spirit of the great strawberry, throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see how much sticks.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
* I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the Treasury.
* I shattered the record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
* I set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
* In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.
* I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.
* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
* I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history.
* I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
* I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president since the advent of TV.
* I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other president in US history.
* I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* I cut health care benefits for war veterans.
* I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
* I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.
* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (The 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her).
* I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.
* I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history.
* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.
* I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
* I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.
* I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
* The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
*I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
* I took the world's sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
* I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
* I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Yeah, but he sure looked hot in that flight suit... |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 657
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:17 pm: | |
Great googly-moogly. I'm gonna send that to a lot of people.
Now we need something similar on Cheney - the man behind the muttonhead. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 368
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:37 pm: | |
The title of this thread does not surprise me. The unhappy and bitter die-hard democrats need to come up with a candidate who will win in 04 and stop your bitching. Hopefully it won't be some lefty loonatic. You must remember that there is a lot of land between NY and CA and a lot of diverse voters, unlike here. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 232
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:41 pm: | |
wow, tom. kind of a staggering inventory. thanks.
as to #7 (1st 7 months or so in office being spent on vacation) - I really wish people would bring that up more today as they did at the time. although this is kind of a minor point next to all the people who have LOST THEIR LIVES owing only to the Bush rhetoric. |
FreeTibet
Citizen
Username: Freetibet
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 12:20 am: | |
A rebuttal, because tom desires one:
* I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the Treasury.
- A surplus of tax dollars is not a surplus, it is robbery. Go back to England, robin hood
* I shattered the record for biggest annual deficit in history.
- Also for budget, seems the two go hand in hand. Funny thing with war time budgets
* I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
- Actually you set the record for not blaming the previous president for so many failed policies
* I set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
- Actually the stock market was down by percentage and dollars more in the months prior to election than any time since then
* I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
- What is wrong with excuting. Do the crime, pay the time. And in this guys case, he had no time left to pay, so TIME OUT
* I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
- Which was preceded by the first president to avoid the draft, smoke pot and blame his own country while in a foreign land. I say it is a step up
* In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
- You are right. He should instead be milking the taxpayers for sleepovers in the Lincoln bedroom. So much more respectable
* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.
- Huh ? lost me here. Vacation involves fishing and camping , not daily correspondence and activity on Iraq, the economy (and it is starting to kick up) and preparing for re-election.
* I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.
- Only preceded by the previous president, and I have a feeling excelled by the next
* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
- Started in 1999, still going. I remember the same argument about Reagan in the first couple of years …
* I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history. Unemployment is not an entitlement. Get a job, you bum or move to a socialist like country. The government cannot make work (that is called welfare) it can only enable job creation through private industry.
* I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
- I am sure that there is a direct correlation with the increase in consumer debt and foreclosures rather than the president economic policy, but I’m probably smoking ….
* I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
- As opposed to pot smoking young punks that caused the worst destruction of the white house of a departing president ever? oooooooo…..
* I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president since the advent of TV.
- With today’s slanted media, do you disagree with him ? watch one next time and pay attention, instead of trying to mock his speech habits.
I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other president in US history.
- The patriot act is not an amendment to the constitution, you dork. There are only 27 amendments, and the last was quite a while ago
I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
- Ahhh yes, we don’t want to drill here , but it is our fault it is so expensive. Complain about the oil, complain about war for oil, complain about cheap gas prices polluting environment, and so on and so on
* I cut health care benefits for war veterans.
- Another faulty system like welfare, just because “60 minutes” had a good episode on this, doesn’t mean that more people arent’ abusing it rather than not. Grow up
I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
- France, Germany and the Kyoto treaty all stink. This is united states of America, not the worlds dumping ground and savior
* I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.
- If secretive means that every cabinet member and staffer doesn’t leak information on a daily basis, then OH MY !
* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (The 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her).
- Jealous or angry? Two black Americans on cabinet , suscessful and conservative. You have Jesse J. I’ll stick with winners
* I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.
- Hmmmm, interesting. All of the accounting debacles happened again during slick willy’s reign. Love the reasoning, hate the logic (or lack there of)
* I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history.
- Psssst… we are at WAR !!!! its not free (but better than ignoring the threats)
* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
- Boo-Hoo-Hoo. And we were replaced with Libia and Cuba. Ouch, that hurts !
* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.
- Hopefully I will be the president that removes the United Nations form the good ‘ol U S of A , too.
* I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
- Please review the geneva convention and please try to understand as to when it applies (i.e. when we are at WAR with a country, not a group of scattered individuals). But I am sure you would want ahkmed and his buddies living next door to you …
* I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.
- These are the same election inspectors that certified Iraq’s election of 99% for Sadam. Correct? wonder why we did not ask them ?
* I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
- When you are good, you are good. You also lead the democratic party in donations under $200, $100, $50 and $25. big and small, we all agree
* The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
- Who actually donated same amount to gore as bush, but that was cause he hated gore, right ??? makes so much sense …
*I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
- Sorry, good ol Billy has W neat there. Bill didn’t sit on the royal bowl unless a focus group said it was ok
* I took the world's sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
- We are stronger prouder and more respected (unless you count the media, in which case Ralph Nader should be prez)
* I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
- As opposed to giving convicted felons that fled the country and ruined thousands of peoples lives a presidential pardon.
* I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
- Once again, because you aren’t listening …. We were in a recession before election. Please try to pay attention
|
hello
Citizen
Username: Hello
Post Number: 51
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 8:32 am: | |
free tibet-
wanna talk pardons? bush, sr pardoned the biggest heroin dealer in afghanistan, the terrorist who downed a cuban commercial airliner and killed 78 people, and the financier of the russian nuclear program (who then made a huge donation to the bush library). bush, sr trumps clinton across the board, in spades. you need to open your eyes, TT. just because the corporate media doesn't tell you about a fact doesn't make it less so. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 1959
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 8:42 am: | |
Why bother debating "Freetibet"? "FT" is just a phony "new poster" who uses phony "facts" instead of bringing something intelligent to the conversation. Most of FT's "rebuttals" are just attempts to change the subject. Screaming about how bad you thought Clinton was, means nothing now, when America needs a government it can trust to effectively defend her principles and her people.
Freetibet, you left out the obligatory: "Oh, you commie-pinko MOL-ers are an insult to real Americans." |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 49
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 8:42 am: | |
Pardons BY NUMBER
Franklin D. Roosevelt 3687
Woodrow Wilson 2480
Harry S. Truman 2044
Calvin Coolidge 1545
Herbert Hoover 1385
Ulysses S. Grant 1332
Lyndon B. Johnson 1187
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1157
Grover Cleveland * 1107
Theodore Roosevelt * 981
Richard Nixon 926
William McKinley * 918
Rutherford B. Hayes 893
Warren G. Harding 800
William H. Taft 758
Andrew Johnson 654
Benjamin Harrison 613
John F. Kennedy 575
Jimmy Carter 566
Bill Clinton 456
James Monroe 419
Gerald Ford 409
Ronald Reagan 406
Andrew Jackson 386
Abraham Lincoln 343
Chester Arthur 337
James K. Polk 268
John Tyler 209
James Madison 196
John Quincy Adams 183
Millard Fillmore 170
Martin Van Buren 168
James Buchanan 150
Franklin Pierce 142
Thomas Jefferson 119
George Bush 77
Zachary Taylor 38
John Adams 21
George Washington 16
James Garfield 0
William H Harrison 0
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Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 50
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 8:46 am: | |
By my calculations Bush’s criminals are aloud to be 5.922 more guilty then Clintons. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1865
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:27 am: | |
I'm not thrilled with the current presidency, but there is no doubt that many, many of the problems started with the last one. Issues this huge most often take years to develop, not overnight. |
-af
Citizen
Username: Java_drinker
Post Number: 270
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 11:06 am: | |
American pride?!?!?
"The foot-tall figurine of Bush in full naval aviator's regalia joins the "Elite Force" series of action figures, including a New York City policeman, Navy SEAL commandos and World War II aviators, manufactured by Blue Box Toys, a Hong Kong-based company with factories in southern China." |
FreeTibet
Citizen
Username: Freetibet
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 2:34 pm: | |
phony "new poster", eh? nice one, nohero (is that cause you have none ?) nothing phony about me other than how i seem to tolerate people like nohero when i meet them face to face. if you dont like what i say, then of course bash me nohero, for that is all you know how to do (and whine and complain and angst over every little detail of the current CONSERVATIVE AND REPUBLICAN Administration, House and Senate).
I looked around and all I could see were mere humans looking up at me
- FreeTibet |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 1962
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 2:51 pm: | |
Well, maybe all you guys who post in the early morning hours just sound alike.
"Angst"? Is that a verb? |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 372
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:19 pm: | |
When you post in those little letters, does that mean you are wittily talking to yourself? |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 1963
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:43 pm: | |
No, I think it's more of an aside that departs from the main point of the post.
If you insist on knowing, when I'm just talking to myself, I tap my fingers on my head, instead of on the keyboard. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 374
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 4:06 pm: | |
Kinda reminds me of Groucho Marx. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1884
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 4:33 pm: | |
Is angst a verb? No, but it would make a great one. "I spent the day angsting over xxx", or, "stop angsting at me!", or "I've spent my life, angsting away". Good one Tenzin!
Namaste. |
FreeTibet
Citizen
Username: Freetibet
Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 6:27 pm: | |
Angst: 1. an acute but nonspecific sense of anxiety or remorse 2. (in Existentialist philosophy) the dread caused by man's awareness that his future is not determined but must be freely chosen.
Usage by FreeTibet
"I angst over the human race that they must wallow in my shadow"
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