| Author |
Message |
    
zoe
Citizen
Username: Zoe
Post Number: 296
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 12:42 pm: |     |
Like so many others, I have always given Rap music some credit, too much credit I think, since reading "How Hip-Hop Holds Blacks Back" by John H. McWhorter
Here is a link:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_how_hip_hop.html
Poetry from the streets? Not. In fact the few songs where I've actually understood the lyrics have offended me with their ability to demean women and treat drug dealers and criminals as heros to be worshiped.
If you make the mistake of believing that new music is viewed by older generations as being harmless, as with Elvis, and the Beatles, drive through Irvington sometime. See what behavior is being encouraged by this latest form of free expression. "Den axe yo sef," what the future holds. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1336
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 12:55 pm: | |
When Ron Ferguson came to town to discuss the racial learning gap in schools, he said this (and I'm paraphrasing)...The national learning gap had started to close by the late 70's/early 80s, but then started to widen again in the mid-80s. This can be attributed to the onset of rap music.
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Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 1913
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 1:12 pm: | |
I think Dr. Ferguson's point was not simply "rap music lowers grades". I think he was more concerned with studying students' priorities.
And Zoe, there may be some confusion of cause and effect. The more extreme elements of hip-hop may be a symptom of larger problems, and not the cause, IMHO. |
porthole
Citizen
Username: Porthole
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 1:28 pm: | |
The article is definitely one-sided.
Grandmaster Flash's "The Message" is every bit as important to American Music as "Highway 61 Revisited."
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notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 641
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 1:30 pm: | |
While a lot of the lyrics in hip-hop and rap are stupid and/or offensive, the music itself is not the root of the problem. It is a symptom of a disease. I personally think the cause of the disease is advertising.
Advertising, particularly when teens are the target, dismisses mature values and bombards teens with simplistic messages designed to lower their self-esteem and urge consumption of latest bigger, faster, more fashionable item. The television shows and magazines that this sort of advertising pays for do the same thing. After a couple of generations of this, why should we expect kids to be much more than unsophisticated, materialistic zombies? Their music only reflects the world they believe they inhabit. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1013
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 2:42 pm: | |
The blame needs to goto MTV for making the "gangsta" lifestyle something that is acceptable. Also the life style of "hos" and "pimps".
It's really just sad. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1337
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 2:43 pm: | |
Not to mix up this thread totally, but did anyone read the times magazine article about black men on the "DL"? Anyway, one thing that was indicated was the black male identity of hyper-masculine-machoism. This above all. Rap certainly fits that idea of self, and for some reason it has spread like wildfire and seems to be accepted by all media and advertising. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 2:49 pm: | |
Even if rap were about bunnies and flowers, it's still a lame excuse for music. The trend has stripped away the need for any kind of musicianship, lowering the standards to the most extreme degree.
Composers only have to do a fraction of the job, write the lyrics (less than half, because they don't have to fit them into the melody which they didn't write); performers don't need to be able to sing or play instruments, all they need do is pose.
Hip-hop isn't so bad. The whole melisma thing is pretty tiresome after a while, but the counterpoint can be interesting. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1338
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:08 pm: | |
Here's a great alternative (they're from Orange, NJ). http://www.robertrandolph.net/ Will big bad radio man give them airtime?
It gives me hope! |
viva
Citizen
Username: Viva
Post Number: 275
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:12 pm: | |
For anyone interested in this topic, I suggest you rent 8 Mile, starring Eminem, for a bit of cultural insight. |
hello
Citizen
Username: Hello
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:22 pm: | |
for anyone interested in this topic, i suggest you ignore everything in this fox news- talk radio- trailer trash thread. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1841
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:36 pm: | |
Which reminds me of my new hit single, titled "Hip Hop 'n Rap is Just Plain Crap" |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1842
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:38 pm: | |
And my other new hit single, titled, "Rap 'n Hip Hop is Just Plain Slop".
Exciting stuff. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1341
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:48 pm: | |
Hey you hip hop ho, whatchu bitchin fo? |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:52 pm: | |
Ah'm bitchin bowt yo snitchin, yo yo, you ho! |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 4976
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:57 pm: | |
hmmmm. not bad. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 236
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 3:59 pm: | |
This is a quote from 50 cents , one of the bigger acts out there. "Yo you just slide into Dre's studio he gives you like 14 tracks to pick from , you just throw some s*** on top of one and like bam you got a hit". 'Nough said Peace out. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1844
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 4:01 pm: | |
Ugh! |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1343
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 4:06 pm: | |
Now seriously, all this talk about the ho. How does a good ol' fashioned slut get any attention anymore?!! |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 4:33 pm: | |
Yeah! Who do I have to $^&#@ to get any attentamacation around here? |
James
Citizen
Username: Mcgregorj
Post Number: 14
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 4:45 pm: | |
Jet: Your comment could easily be applied to any genre of music. Lots of corporate acts get their songs created for them in just this way. They're all trash. But not all trash is rap, and neither is all rap trash.
Of course, everyone should only listen to WFMU (91.1). |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 237
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 5:01 pm: | |
James, it was not a comment just a re-hash of a quote, but on the other hand I think Tupac was one of the most talented people out there. You drop "California Love" in the middle of a pumping party , you got something. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 5:02 pm: | |
WFUV as well.
What are the call numbers for WFMU again? |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 698
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 5:03 pm: | |
Does crappy country music hold back Southern white people? |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1849
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 5:13 pm: | |
My sisters gave me the Christy Lane tape for my b'day (gag gift), which features such unique melodies as "I believe in Angels", "One Day at a Time, Sweet Jesus", and "One Set of Footprints in the Sand". If I had to choose between her and rap, I'd commit suicide. |
eb1154
Citizen
Username: Eb1154
Post Number: 298
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 6:31 pm: | |
Johnny,
NO. Having parents who are brother and sister is what holds them back.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 7:01 pm: | |
91.1 on your FM dial. |
beppolina
Citizen
Username: Beppolina
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 7, 2003 - 3:40 pm: | |
If you really want to feel elderly, watch BET "Uncut" at 3am Saturday (so set your TiVo, it's channel 56). They play full versions -- soft-porn, really -- of videos you see edited on daytime BET, as well as videos that'll never get play in prime time. One recent favorite had this for a chorus:
I ain't got no panties on
Ain't got no panties on,
I ain't got no panties on,
On the dance floor.
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weekends
Citizen
Username: Weekends
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 7, 2003 - 3:57 pm: | |
I watch about 1/2 and hour of Hip Hop music videos every day while using the treadmill at a gym. What hits me upside the head are all the designer clothes, the Italian sports cars, the Hyper Hyper Materialism that is relentlessly depicted.
In a "lifestyles of the music artists" segment, the kids making this music crow about their gold Versace dinner place settings, Manolo B. shoes, the number of bathrooms in their home, the brand of dishwasher in the unused showcase kitchen.
Anyone here feel qualified to explain what this is about, because to me it seems sad, even twisted.
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notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 644
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 8, 2003 - 2:34 pm: | |
No, weekends, I think you've pretty much got a handle on things. Feeling sad about it is entirely appropriate.
I have worked with musicians who are involved in hip-hop, and many of them are quite talented and hard-working individuals. Unfortunately, the "artists" that are actually brought to the top by the powers that be are the ones who are simply the loudest, the most outrageous, or the most willing to say or do whatever the executives tell them to.
Everything that sucks about the music industry sucks more in hip-hop. A very close friend of mine sang the hook on a hip-hop song that went multi-platinum a couple of years ago. For her contribution, she got a pittance for the recording session, nothing else. She still depends on her day job as a chef in a corporate cafeteria. Of course, she should never have done the session without having a better deal beforehand, but if she had insisted on better terms, she wouldn't have gotten the gig. Have the calls been pouring in since then for her to sing on other records? Not really... because she doesn't sleep around, she doesn't party, she doesn't do outrageous things in public... being an amazingly good singer doesn't seem to have much to do with it. |
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