| Author | Message | ||
     Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2003 |
Oh, check today's NY Times Letters to the Editor for one Maplewoodian's reasons for leaving. Hint - Taxes. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 1714 Registered: 9-2001 |
OK, gotcha... but what's this story all about in the NY Times? | ||
| newjerz Citizen Username: Newjerz Post Number: 91 Registered: 5-2003  |
"So, why are the taxes so high here in Maplewood???" I think the primary reason is that more money is being spent on funding our school system now than in the past. Part of it has to do with the fact that there is a growing school age population. However, my understanding is that there was a time in the mid 1970's? when the school population reached its peak. So I guess it also has to do with the fact that we are spending more per student than we did back then. This of course leads to the question are we getting more for the money we are spending? Unfortunately, the statistics seem to indicate we are not. Why are we spending more money then if we're not getting the results? I think the problem is that there has been a decrease in academic interest among my generation. I think this is caused by two different sources (massive generalizations ahead): White "upperclass" kids who have had a lot of things given to them and do not seem to have the drive that their parents must have had in order to afford to live in Maplewood. Black kids of all economic backgrounds which see academic achievment as un-cool. These two factors I think contribute significantly to the lowered performance of Columbia especially. Just my simplified and generalized assessment of what is going on in our schools. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2003 |
Newjerz, I couldn't agree with you more about your last two obsrvations. Wouldn't you also agree that the parents, adults and the economy are painting a bleak picture and our youth's actions are just a result of that? People follow by example and are motivated by their environment. | ||
| Arnomation Citizen Username: Arnomation Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2003  |
--Black kids of all economic backgrounds which see academic achievment as un-cool. -- I think that statement would be much more accurate if it just said "kids" regardless of color. I don't think academic achievement was ever cool for 'any' kid. Being school-smart as a kid may be a lot of other good things but it's definitely not cool.... No matter what color you are. Just ask Peter Parker :-0 | ||
| REBORN STRAW Citizen Username: Strawberry Post Number: 925 Registered: 10-2001 |
Allow me to end this boorish thread drift and answer the original question. Please take notes. The Maplewood Mass Exodus is a result of tax hikes and booming property values. The prices will eventually decrease but the taxes won't. Some Home owners who bought in Maplewood even as late as 1990 who have also recently moved have sold their homes at nearly 100% profit in some instances! (Applause!!!!) This as their taxes doubled or tripled in that same time. (boo!!!) Also, Don't be surprised if you see a drop of nearly 30% in the housing market in some areas of Maplewood over the next two years as well (figure compiled by Sebonis Industries). A side thought..The stock market over the last two years is down 20%. In that same time the housing market is up 20%...So, as the stocks climb over the next year or so, well you figure out the rest. Heck, even the rates are starting to creep up. Shame on those of you who never refinanced. Another point, Maplewood's buyers market ended around 1998. As a result, some of our new neighbors may never actually see a return on their investment. Chances are, these current prices won't ever be topped. When houses with 1.5 baths go for $500,000 you have to wonder. Now for those who ask, why then won't the Great Straw sell????... I have a stock answer for you, Maybe I will, maybe I won't. That's all for today. | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 3281 Registered: 5-2001 |
Maplewood real estate has been a boom and bust sort of thing over the 25 years we have lived here. There was a boom in the mid-1970s, followed by a bust, a boom in the mid-1980s, followed by a bust until the current boom got underway in the late 1990s. With interest rates moving up rapidly, although I don't know if this is a hiccup or a trend, I don't think the boom is going to continue much longer, which means this is the first time I agree with Strawperson. I tend to think that in ten years or so there will probably be another spike upwards. When we bought our current house in 1987 we really didn't think prices could go much higher. They did.  | ||
| hello Citizen Username: Hello Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2003 |
newjerz- i'm aware of no subjective support for your racist statement. there are questions concerning educational attainment, but not "values" as far as i am aware. and, unless i'm missing something, CHS isn't deteriorating. property values in maplewood went up because, in part, of GOOD schools here, schools funded by taxes. all of this republican nonsense in here denying the cold hard fact that taxes are GOOD for property values is pathetic. people WANT roads and sidewalks and police and fire and schools, and they WANT to pay taxes for government to provide these. they have CHOSEN to come to maplewood and pay a fortune for the houses here and pay high taxes. the rising property values refute ALL of this republican nonsense. yes, maplewood doesn't have a short hills mall, and maplewood has children of low income and thus necessarily less nurtured backgrounds in this harshly feudal economy of ours. but that is ALL that is at play here, except maplewood has not embarassed herself as millburn has with pathetic racist "secession" displays more suitable for stone mountain, GA than new jersey. | ||
| nova87 Citizen Username: Nova87 Post Number: 247 Registered: 6-2001 |
hello - I had a chat with a neighbor this past weekend. He has been a resident of MW for 51 years and counting. He told me that in the 60', 70's and early 80's Columbia was consistently ranked as one of the best schools in the state. Now we're lucky to be in the top 100 in the state. How can you, in good conscience, say that CHS is not deteriorating? Look at the trend since the 70's and 80's. We may have leveled off lately but there was no where to go but up. IMO, the values in Maplewood went up first and foremost because of the MIDTOWN DIRECT and even the value of housing stock in MW trailed the western suburbs in terms of timing. Look at Madison, Chatham etc. All of their housing stock skyrocketed immediately upon the announcement and arrival of the Midtown Direct. It took Maplewood a couple of years to catch up. Why do you think that is? When we were looking for a house back in '99 the look on people's faces when told that we were looking in MW said it all. I specifically remember speaking to a woman at work (who is black) and her reaction was, "you're moving from Chatham to Maplewood? Usually its the other way around." The perception was that MW was too urban (read: black). We obviously ignored the comments and bought our house here and we like it. But we do have concerns. A rather large fight between some black youths took place on my street a few years ago which terrified some of the residents. There was a mugging last year in broad daylight. The black perpetrator hopped into his car and sped away towards Maplecrest park. These kinds of things didn't go on in my old neighborhood. Also, all of your screaming about racism leaves your arguments very hollow. Millburn is leaving not for racist reasons, but because they feel they don't get a fair return for the taxes they pay. Who can blame them? I certainly don't. I wish Maplewood could leave Essex county. The economy is not "harshly" feudal, as you say, in fact I'll gladly take it any day over the "socialist" form I'm sure you would gladly suggest. | ||
| jet Citizen Username: Jet Post Number: 239 Registered: 7-2001 |
Housing prices have gone down only once during the pass century , during the depression . Housing prices in Maplewood will be higher in 5yrs then they are now, for the same old reasons , they ain't making any more , people want services, the center of the world is 18mi. away. | ||
| newjerz Citizen Username: Newjerz Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2003 |
hello- 1. First of all there was absolutely nothing "racist" about my remarks. 2. I admit that my observations were based purely on my own experiences and were not based on any statistical study. However, this is an observation which I have heard expressed by others (both black and white) presumably based on their own experiences. I stand by the content of my observation. I witnessed through my career in the M/SO school district fewer and fewer black students (especially males) in my classes (I was in all level 4 & 5). I don't buy the argument that we have teachers who are racist or biased and simply who put black students in lower tracks because of this. I am aware of what goes on around me. As a student you see and hear things. And I am confident that there was pressure not to excell in school or "act white" among a significant number of black students. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. 3. CHS is deteriorating. Yes we still send plenty of students to good colleges and most kids who graduate do go on to some form of post-secondary education. But the overall test scores are down. That doesn't mean it can't be fixed, but sticking your head in the sand and insisting that Columbia is a good school when it is average at best is unproductive. 4. Millburn, Roseland, etc. want to leave Essex county by financial reasons not racial ones. Newark is a huge financial drain on the other communities in Essex and basically people would rather spend money on their own community. That might be greedy, but I don't think it is racist. There probably should not be any county government and have all tax revenue go directly to the state and have them allocate those funds so such a heavy burden is not placed on Essex county and others that have urban areas within their borders. 5. Anyone who has moved to Maplewood in the last 5-10 years could not have come here because the schools are good here. Over that period Columbia has consistently ranked at or near the bottom of our socio-economic grouping and would still be near the bottom of the socio-economic grouping below us. | ||
| hello Citizen Username: Hello Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2003 |
so far, the only time i've even thought about my safety here was when i was walking home from the train one night and was startled by some white teenagers doing drugs on brookside in the trees next to the creek. funny how none of you seem to have any sociologic commentary on this type of thing- i'm sure you've seen it as well, being here much longer than i. the root issue with young people's poor behaviors is idleness, not race. the idle children of the elite in this country are no less often pieces of crap than are the idle children in the ghettos. in fact, it is almost certainly easier to fix the problem in the ghetto, by coming up with jobs for the kids so they can earn some money. the hopes and dreams of all kids are almost certainly the same. it is often harder in the columbines, ad nauseum of the world to come up with something for kids who already have the money. and it is certainly a feudal economy when poor kids can go to jail for stealing a bicycle at night from your porch, but "kenny boy" lay and bernard ebbers remain free and close friends of the president. all three take things that are not theirs without violence, but if you take millions then you are somehow perceived as less of a threat to society than someone who takes a bicycle. we're very sterile "law and order" with the poor but so perversely sympathetic to the republican predators in the bush inner circle. | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 1939 Registered: 5-2001  |
The "ranking" issue has been discussed here a lot over the years. But, the discussion always focuses on average test scores. An "average" is just that, meaning that if there are more low-scoring students, their scores detract from the results from the high-scoring students. Does Columbia have a lot of high-scoring students? Yes, it does. Does Columbia have more lower-scoring students today, than in the past? That may well be. Does that make Columbia "worse"? Not necessarily. The challenge is to find ways to reach those lower-scoring students, while maintaining the excellent educational opportunities which the higher-scoring students currently enjoy. The fact that our community faces this challenge, does not mean we don't have good schools. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 1357 Registered: 5-2001  |
I agree with what you've laid out newjerz except for point #5. THe schools are good, but the student body make up has changed. This brings into play your point #2. THe excellence is there for the taking, and many do, but many don't. The district has tried to address this, and many argue that that resulted in a "dumbing down" factor. That debate can be found all over the education thread. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 1358 Registered: 5-2001 |
and what nohero said...  | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 365 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hello- Maybe you can tell us why you moved to Maplewood and why you left where you were. | ||
| newjerz Citizen Username: Newjerz Post Number: 94 Registered: 5-2003 |
hello, wow a something we actually agree upon. I agree with you completely about these people involved in all of this corporate fraud. All of these "white collar" criminals should be done for at least 15-20 years. The damage they have done to society is certainly worse than almost any other type of thief or robber. BTW, why were you concerned for your safety when you saw some high school kids smoking weed in the trees? | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 693 Registered: 6-2001 |
(&^$&*((%Y$$%%& file lock error ate my post.....trying again....) I also agree with Nohero on the ranking/school quality issue. And, while I think hello makes some good points, I'll give newjerz a pass on the racism charge. The theory about "acting white" is out there. It has black proponents in the research community. I think it is at best partly true in some cases and not a useful way to think about the larger question of achivement. There are lots of other theories and explanations out there and considerable evidence that most black students do value achievement and want to excel, given a chance. My question is what might be happening in our schools to reduce or eliminate that chance? | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 3283 Registered: 5-2001 |
Here is a source of school test and enrollment statistics. Have fun. http://hometown.aol.com/njfabian | ||
| nova87 Citizen Username: Nova87 Post Number: 249 Registered: 6-2001 |
newjerz - isn't it obvious why hello was scared? Don't you know the threat that "white" teens pose when smoking dope in the trees? Now if someone can show me a statistical correlation between the number of white youths smoking dope and the number of crimes committed I'll be convinced. |
