| Author | Message | ||
     notehead Citizen Username: Notehead Post Number: 633 Registered: 5-2001  |
My land line at home has been getting increasingly noisy, and over the weekend I had no dial tone on any phone line in my home. Yesterday morning I tried to find the main Customer Service phone number in the new Verizon phone books, and couldn't find it anyplace. I called Verizon's 411, and although I specifically stated that I wanted Customer Service for help with a land line problem, they connected me to Verizon Wireless. Calling 411 again, I was connected to the proper service, got shunted through a few options, and put on hold while the most artless version of "Our House" imaginable played in the background. I kept my cell phone next to my ear for TWO AND A HALF HOURS before giving up. I'm still recovering from that much exposure to their on-hold music. Nobody ever answered (and yes, they were supposedly open for business). I know that things are dicey with Verizon right now, but this experience was typical of the "service" I usually get from them whenever I have a problem with my phone. (Of course, if I want to add a feature, you can bet somebody will pick that call right up!) If Verizon wasn't a local monopoly, I would happily try someone else. Is it just me, or does Verizon really stink? | ||
| #9Dream Citizen Username: 9dream Post Number: 532 Registered: 12-2002  |
I think their current "dicey" status is contributing to your problems. Outages and other problems have been reported and they're not even on strike yet. FWIW, we signed up for one of Verizon's new plans, I forget the name, but the one that includes everything for $54.95. We were very careful to get the sales rep to tell us exactly what the bill would be after all the taxes and whatnot. We got our first bill and it was $5 higher than we'd been told it would be, and we promptly switched to MCI's "Neighborhood" plan. Also FWIW we use Verizon Wireless and have had no problems, other than a poor signal in parts of Maplewood. | ||
| AZ Citizen Username: Azaltsman Post Number: 161 Registered: 1-2003 |
I think the unions are the problem. Normally, I always get good service regarding home phone issues, of which we have very rarely. The damn unions are causing problems, as they always do. Of course the feed their own interests so that union "members" can pony up dues. No one in the general public has benefited from unions since the industrial revolution. I personally think they should all be abolished. | ||
| eliz Citizen Username: Eliz Post Number: 574 Registered: 5-2001 |
I had the same problem for the last few days - noisy line, occasionally no dial tone. I called the repair number on my phone bill this morning, got thru with no problem - hit "0" when a computer started talking to me, and they tested my line - it appears there were some surges from storms last week. Anyway they had me unplug my phones for 10 minutes after they did whatever they did and now it seems to be fine. | ||
| James Citizen Username: Mcgregorj Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2003 |
AZ: that's total garbage. Verizon is one the most profitable telecommunications companies in the world. I hope CWA gives `em hell. As for organized labor doing nothing for the general populace: oh, consider the child labor laws, the 40 hour work week, family medical leave, etc, etc, etc... all of these and other major gains solidified in this century by men and women who died to make it happen. Solidarity forever. - James, UNITE! Legal Team "We kick ass for the working class!" | ||
| AZ Citizen Username: Azaltsman Post Number: 164 Registered: 1-2003 |
James, thanks for the touching diatribe. Unions had their place at certain points in the 20th century. And I by no means have anything against the working class, blue collar, whatever. I treat all people equally no matter what profession they choose in life. Now, onto the facts. Certain industries probably need unions but they create that "problem" onto themselves. Can the automakers be trusted to treat employees fairly? It's probably worth a shot. Can Verizon treat the pole climbers fairly? It's probably worth a shot. As profitable as you may think Verizon is, and I am the last person to defend them, their business has changed dramatically over the years. The labor unions are raking in big and trying to infiltrate the wireless world as well. Why on earth do the clerks at Verizon Wireless, the secretaries, etc, need a union. It's totally absurd. And everyone pays for it every month in their phone bill. Don't even get me started on what these so called unions do in NYC. They take over buildings like roaches and jack up the prices of doing business. Running telephone or computer wiring in most office buildings in NYC require union labor, who charge between 2-5 times the going rate from non-union people. And they always have their ways of "working". Breaks every certain amount of hours, non-working supervisors, etc. These are the same people that Verizon has to work into its payroll. So it's not about Verizon. It's about the leeching unions that amount to legalized organized crime in this country. | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 288 Registered: 9-2002  |
I am not opposed to unions in theory, but here's my union story: I was doing some work for the NYC Board of Elections. We needed a whiteboard in one of the conference rooms. We put in a request, and the whiteboard showed up, sitting on the floor. A week later it still wasn't put up. The holes had been drilled, the anchors and bolts put in, but the whiteboard was still on the floor. So we put it up. I can't repeat the rukus that doing that created. We learned that putting up the whiteboard was a union job that could not, by contract, be done by anyone else. Two days later, the whiteboard still had not been put up, so we got an easel and put it on the easel. The next day we found the easel in pieces. Two weeks after our request, it was still sitting on the floor (in the evenings - we put it on a chair during the day). Not a big deal, but it was a ridiculous abuse of a provision won in a contract negotiation. Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 10161 Registered: 10-2001  |
Here's my favorite union story: some years ago Sbenois was thirsty so he headed to the office water cooler. There was no water left. S goes to get the water bottle and do the old flippy dippy when he is instructed that this chore is a union task. I said "surely you are joking". My colleague said "I kid you not". Not convinced I rang the building office to ask if this was in fact a union "Job". It was. ---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <---- | ||
| bets Citizen Username: Bets Post Number: 366 Registered: 6-2001  |
Who's to know whether sbenois's post is fact or fantasm. It's up to you. On this topic, I have to point out that most of you reading this on your 19" monitors connected to some sort of network already have the health benefits and guaranteed employment that the masses are lacking. Most service jobs are not unionized, leaving many millions completely unprotected. Joe Millionaire's who are reading this: I am sure you bitch and complain about the lack of specialists on your health plan. Why not take one minute of your life to think about those people that don't have any plan at all? It is unbelievable that a doctor recommends a gall bladder removal to solve a patient's chronic stomach discomfort but it's NOT COVERED UNDER YOUR PLAN. That's the reality for we that have insurance. Just think what our society offers to those that do not. How about some empathy? Oh, that's right. If you don't have insurance you might as well just die. Forgot. Whew! Thanks for reminding me! (Subliminal message, for the obtuse: Unions represent us! Workers! People who get their hands dirty so you don't have to!) Sorry we're such a bother! Please resume your previously scheduled lives... (I do not, nor ever have, belonged to or paid dues to a union. The opportunity was never available.) | ||
| AZ Citizen Username: Azaltsman Post Number: 165 Registered: 1-2003 |
What do unions and health plans have to do with one another? How many tens of thousands of business throughout the country provided health benefits for their ununionized workers? Bets, I know where you're coming from but I can tell you that nowadays healthcare is expensive for employers. Your gall bladder scenario has nothing to do with unions but the healthcare plan chosen by your employer. Unionizing only makes you pay dues (waste of money), increases expenses for the employer (waste of money), and, as a direct result, will leave the employer with less money to pay people with and grow the business with. Healthcare benefits are provided by employers to employees as a benefit. If you don't like the benefits leave and find a better job that has different healthcare plans. Companies try to strive between a balance of good healthcare plans and costs. It's a problem for this whole country when these plans increase 10-20% per year (at least, depending on the industries). Unions aren't going to solve and just play the role of middle man to make money for themselves and their officers. | ||
| grw Citizen Username: Grw Post Number: 156 Registered: 12-2002 |
I think Verizon is on a unpublisized work slowdown | ||
| AZ Citizen Username: Azaltsman Post Number: 166 Registered: 1-2003 |
Woodstock - I'm with you! I say abolish all labor union laws and give the power back the people and the employers. All these anti-unionization laws need to be repealed! | ||
| hello Citizen Username: Hello Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2003 |
AZ- "What do unions and health plans have to do with one another?" this suggestion is so preposterous it is almost beyond words. funny how history is only important to some when it makes their point. as for the usual talk radio union stories in here, i'd suggest each of you get down on your knees and thank god airline pilots and mechanics are unionized, and electrical linemen are unionized, and the workers who build bridges and high-rise office buildings are unionized. it is union labor that values your safety in-and-of-itself independently of the profit incentives of the companies that hire them. and, ecoonomics being as they are, unions have evolved to be the friend of management in almost all circumstances. the auto manufacturers adore the UAW because the alternative is chaos. the afl-cio supports bush's energy policy (re: alaska) for the jobs it will create. smart people know that if unions were to go away then, for instance, almost no one would fly on an airplane. | ||
| Ignatius J Citizen Username: Ignatius_j Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2003  |
I think that Unions were and are a necessary evil because with out them employers hold all the cards and can treat their employees anyway they want but now I feel like the pendulum has swung to the other side and the Unions are taking advantage of their position and using their power for greed. There has to be some middle ground where employees can't take advantage yet workers aren't able to bring a business to a halt just because they can. If feel like Unions have become the leach that is sucking this country dry by driving up prices and sending so much business overseas. Everyone wants to buy stuff cheap but when they talk about unemployment, they don't measure the fact that millions of jobs are now being done in third world countries instead of in the US because Union labor is just too expensive. | ||
| anon Citizen Username: Anon Post Number: 753 Registered: 6-2002 |
This thread started off with a criticism of a monopoly and ends up with people attacking Unions! Are the Unions responsible for the fact that Notehead couldn't find the customer service number in the directory? Did the Union design the system that caused him so much trouble? Did the Executive Board of the AFL-CIO pass a resolution that the song "our house" should be played when one is put on "hold"? Without Unions, what incentive would corporations have to offer any health benefits to lower level employees or pay decent wages or treat their employees with any sort of respect? Non-Unionized companies do this because of the threat of Unionization. Why do you folks think people organize Unions in the first place? It is because they don't like the way they are treated by their bosses. First of all, in a free society you cannot prevent people from forming organizations for their mutual benefit. You can no more outlaw Unions than you can outlaw the National Rifle Association. And if it was illegal for workers to organize and bargain collectively, wouldn't they be little more than slaves? Unions are a necessary evil? So are large corporations. I am an educated self-employed professional. My parents never finished high school. I doubt I would have gotten this far in life if it were not for the standard of living provided by my father's Union. | ||
| AZ Citizen Username: Azaltsman Post Number: 167 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hello and Anon, you both make some valid points. Yes, in HISTORY unions were necessary. During the Gilded Age and industrial revolution magnates did have sweatshops and took advantage of workers. No doubt unionization played a vital role to the people that Hello mentioned - the electricians, the bridge workers, etc. However, our capitalist society has evolved over the last 100 years. There is something that you are both missing and that is without employees corporations big or small have nothing to stand on. If unions were real advocates for the people then I wouldn't be against them. Unions were designed to be advocates for the people. What are they now? Bowls of waste and greed. Why should there be union labor requirements? Why does "unionized labor" cost 2-5 times more then non-unionized labor? Because of corruption and waste. I have witnessed this with my own eyes. Seemingly simple jobs such as telecom wiring that can be done by a high school kid cost much more because unionized labor requires more people then necessary to be on jobs. I have a client now that is moving to an office in NYC and the local wiring union said in not so many words said that even though telecom wiring is already there it must be cut and the office space rewired. And if they don't rewire the union guys are going to cut the wire so that the company is forced to rewire. We're talking an extra $40K in wiring. Why is that fair? Then they have supervisors who do nothing but drink coffee and charge the companies money for doing work. I have seen scenarios like Woodstock and Sbenois wrote about time and time again. No wonder corporate america is going overseas for labor. Why deal with waste and increased costs? The current laws prevent companies from fighting back against unionization. Under this I would say that labor unions represent legalized monopolies on labor that is costing this country money and jobs, the very thing they were invented to prevent. And why does an airline pilot need to be represented by a union? THAT I cannot understand. The laws of supply and demand apply to the workforce. If there are jobs for pilots then the pilots will have jobs. What can an union do for an airline pilot that the airline pilot cannot do for himself? More money wasted. Fares increased. That's the bottom line. | ||
| lseltzer Citizen Username: Lseltzer Post Number: 1659 Registered: 5-2001 |
Drifting back to the original thread a bit, if you are a DSL customer I would warn you against switching your basic phone service away from Verizon, as you will lose that service (probably without warning), and your only alternative will be DSL from the company from which you are buying basic service, assuming they offer it here. | ||
| anon Citizen Username: Anon Post Number: 755 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ask airline pilots why they have a Union. Apparently, they feel a need for one. Large companies that want to remain non-union, like Walmart, seem to find it easy to fight unionization. Do Unions have some silly rules? Of course they do. Are they all perfect? Of course not. I have issues with our local teachers union. All institutions have negative aspects. The fact that big business does terrible things doesn't mean we should embrace socialism. The corruption and hypocrisy of organized religion doesn't make all of us atheists. The evils of government doesn't mean we should advocate anarchy. Unions serve their purpose. Without them workers would be at the total mercy of their employers. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 1685 Registered: 5-2001 |
I refuse to debate the union issue with people who recite sound-bites masquerading as facts. (Although - an interesting factoid for those who are aghast at the "scheduled breaks" these priveledged workers get: it's no different from the scheduled breaks mandated by labor laws for non-unionized workers. Until it was negotiated in a contract several years ago, Directory Assistance Operators could not leave their stations to go to the bathrooms between scheduled breaks. They would raise their hands and wait for permission & were timed by their supervisors). However.... As a Verizon union household, let me tell you what we are going through: 1. We have a major home fix-it issue that we are not dealing with because we have no idea if there will be a paycheck next week- the strike can happen at any time. 2. Verizon is spending millions of dollars a week employing retired managers to stand over the union workers, so that they can take over any minute in case of a strike. A manager walks up and down the aisles all day, making sure that the techs are working, and at their desks on time. Demeaning? You betcha. And it leaves little opportunity for slacking off. 3. Very well paid? Please define. Never mind that the ads being run by Verizon are very clever. The $80k salary is based on a small group of highly paid "super techs" and includes fringe benefits & overtime. 4. Did you know that Verizon workers are considered emergency employees? That when the rest of our offices are shut down because of weather, holidays, terrorist attacks, etc., they work? And they can be required to report to work for extra shifts and holidays, just like cops and firefighters. Some work the OT because they like the money, but others do it because they have no choice. 5. Have you asked yourself what role the Verizon union techs played in making sure the 911 system in NY stayed up on 9/11? Or the Stock Exchange reopening on 9/17? No one is saying that there are not lazy union employees. But, having been a manager in corporate America for the past 13 years, I don't think it's any worse than among non-union employees. Ironically, we understand Notehead's frustration & know it first hand. For years, The Spouse has called Verizon when we have a problem & stayed on hold forever getting no information. And, on 7/31, our phone line went out. It didn't get fixed until this past Thursday. | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 290 Registered: 9-2002 |
AZ (and other) may have assumed from my post that I'm anti-union. I'm not opposed to unions in concept. I agree with the idea of a labor force that can counter the advantage that a large employer typically has in labor negotiations. However I am not sure they always keep their members best interests (or reality) in mind when negotioating. To Greenetree's specific points, though: 1. We have a major home fix-it issue that we are not dealing with because we have no idea if there will be a paycheck next week- the strike can happen at any time. While I can sympathize, a strike would be the workers saying we'd rather not work at all than work under these conditions. The reality is that there are lots of workers losing their homes or unable to maintain their homes because they are already out of a job, and not by their own choosing. 2. Verizon is spending millions of dollars a week employing retired managers to stand over the union workers, so that they can take over any minute in case of a strike. A manager walks up and down the aisles all day, making sure that the techs are working, and at their desks on time. Demeaning? You betcha. And it leaves little opportunity for slacking off. It the union wasn't threatening a strike, these retired managers wouldn't be needed to learn the workers' jobs in case they need to step in. Without a strike, there's no need for short term non-union replacements. 3. Very well paid? Please define. Never mind that the ads being run by Verizon are very clever. The $80k salary is based on a small group of highly paid "super techs" and includes fringe benefits & overtime. Actually, I thuoght the commercial specifically said the average Verizon employee. But htey did roll in benefits, which include healthcare, retirement, etc. Not things most people think about when consideing a salar. Definitely a non-starter for Verizon. 4. Did you know that Verizon workers are considered emergency employees? That when the rest of our offices are shut down because of weather, holidays, terrorist attacks, etc., they work? And they can be required to report to work for extra shifts and holidays, just like cops and firefighters. Some work the OT because they like the money, but others do it because they have no choice. No offemse, but there's always a choice. I assume these workers knew what they were getting into when they joined Verizon... Join the rest of us who have to brave it in the workforce on our own. Where if we don't like the employer, we just move to another one if possible, or suck it up if we can't. 5. Have you asked yourself what role the Verizon union techs played in making sure the 911 system in NY stayed up on 9/11? Or the Stock Exchange reopening on 9/17? This is a non-starter for the union. Being a union shop had nothing to do with the role Verizon workers played. It had to do with personal fortitude. To give the credit to the union on this is taking away from the average Verizon emloyee, which you or your SO seem to be. Again, I'm not opposed to unions per se. But when the CWA wants no copay on health care, I have little sympathy. I pay all my own healthcare costs. Most workers, particluarly the white collar workers some here seem to despise, pay a portion of the own healthcare benefits, plus pay a co-pay. Perhaps no the CEO of a major corporation, but most other wrokers. Just as the "completely lazy union worker" is an extreme example, so is the "fat-cat CEO and is cronies." Waiting For The Electrician, Or Someone Like Him |
