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Message |
    
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1112
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:05 pm: |     |
The News I believe it was today had a screaming headline about a missile terror plot. I must be missing something here, but as I read the story
1) the buyer was an undercover FBI agent.
2) the seller was a Russian undercover agent who was part of the sting.
3) the weapon itself had been rendered inoperative
So we have no terrorist, no plot, no missile and no supplier. Just this middleman.
Not to stick up for this loser, he tried to do a bad thing and deserves what he gets. But smugglers are quite frankly a dime-a-dozen, and THIS guy promised to get a weapon even though he obviously couldn't -- or else he wouldn't have stumbled into the arms of the Russian agent.
This story is a big nothing. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 369
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:39 pm: | |
The middleman is not a terrorist? Nah, he's only Bin Laden's best friend. Big nothing indeed! |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 9:49 pm: | |
no tom you are right. bush is behind this 100%. total fake out. part of the great plan. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1113
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:15 pm: | |
While you Bush cheerleaders are foolishly trumpeting this as a huge win, Newsweek is reporting that the whole thing was a screwup -- a major opportunity that went awry when the arrest, which was supposed to be just the first phase of a much bigger operation, was leaked.
See http://www.msnbc.com/news/952001.asp?0cv=CB10 for the details. The summary: "But at the end of the day, officials say, the Lakhani case remains a story about potential threats—and not the real-life terrorists they had once hoped to nail."
After reading it, tell me again how great it is that they got this guy.
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REBORN STRAW
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 938
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 6:16 am: | |
Poor Tom. poor, poor Tom.
The men arrested THOUGHT they were selling a weapon that worked. They also THOUGHT they were selling the weapon to terrorists. Indeed very scary.
Secondly, If in fact the feds jumped the gun and this is indeed possible, the President and other top officials have no choice but to act as if the arrest was a planned one. You see, let me explain once again. The Feds can't give the impression they can't get their act together. This could in the end prove fatal to American lives. It's kind of like playing cards, Tom. You know the poker face thing?? Let's just say we need a poker face, in the war against terror.
Sebonis, please step forward and give this man a poopyhead award. It's one that I would say is well earned. Did I say poor, poor Tom?
Vote Ed May all the way!
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1114
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 7:45 am: | |
"...no choice but to act as if the arrest was a planned one" validates my original point -- the media blew it. They took this tale and uncritically ran with it.
Sure it's scary that there's a guy willing to sell such a weapon to terrorists.
You know what would be even scarier? An actual terrorist trying to use it. Or, an actual Russian military person with the weapon willing to sell it on the open market.
This tale has neither. Again: the media blew it.
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hello
Citizen
Username: Hello
Post Number: 52
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 8:41 am: | |
well said, tom. despite no threat whatsoever emanating from us soil, this is being used to further codify marshal law. and you TT who think this is temporary, bush has anounced this is a "lifetime" situation. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1866
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:32 am: | |
The news today quoted this creep as saying that 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the US, that we deserved it, that the US is full of "bastards", etc.. How many more of these guys are out there? Nail this loser, and make an example to other evil nutjobs. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 12:40 pm: | |
"no threat whatsoever emanating from us soil"
Hello, are you blind? Do you really think that's true? Wake up!
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JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 1:03 pm: | |
Tom - I think buzzsaw has proven your point. He is now afraid and no longer thinking critically. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 2:31 pm: | |
JJC. I think you are proving my point, you are blind & so are the people that think the war on terror is a p.r. machine. (sure I think the color coding is a bit silly).
So, you really think that there is no threat of terror attacks here. Really?
I don't live my life in fear. I go about my business as I did before 9/11. Please don't tell me I am afraid because I am not on your bandwagon.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1115
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 2:48 pm: | |
Of course we think that there is a threat of terror attacks here. It's just that this particular operation hasn't done anything to prevent one. Maybe if it hadn't been botched it would have led to something.
But my point remains, the media is out to lunch on this one. |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 85
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 2:50 pm: | |
Sure it's a threat but the chances of any of us being directly affected are really quite low. All hysteria aside, in a country of 250 million, how many have been killed inside our borders by "external" terrorism? (this excludes Oklahoma City, Atlanta Olympics and various abortion clinics). Although 9/11 was truly horrific and I wouldn't want ot be insensitive or minimize any of the true pain and suffering it has caused, we have given up so many of our rights and freedoms, have spent large sums of mone fighting wars and buying allies - while our own ports, airports, bridges, subways, etc are no more safe than they were pre-9/11. We did this because we were cowed into thinking this would make us safer. It has not. I am sure you saw what happened at JFK last week. The recent congressional 9/11 report pointed to the need for more cooperation and better analysis - not a move toward marshal law. You do have some good points but we all need to keep our eyes and ears open and stay focused, to the best of our abilities, on the facts. I wanted to believe that the recent 'missle bust' was something real - I really did. But if it is not, I am not going to pretent it was to make myself feel better. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1882
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 2:55 pm: | |
JJC,
What rights and freedoms have we given up? |
JJC
Citizen
Username: Mercury
Post Number: 86
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:05 pm: | |
Mem - Not going there - you need to pay closer attention to what your Homeland Security is up to. Pleading ignorance is not a valid argument |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 371
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:11 pm: | |
JJC hasn't given up any rights. |
newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 112
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:16 pm: | |
But seriously, how have you personally been impacted by the actions of the Office of Homeland Security? Obviously one doesn't need to personally be affected in order for civil rights to be abridged, but I think the assertion that we have given up "many" of our rights and freedoms seems exagerated.
Ignorance is not a legitimate argument that it isn't occurring, but out of curriosity exactly what rights and freedoms have been abridged, so I can decide if I should be upset by it or not. |
hello
Citizen
Username: Hello
Post Number: 54
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:20 pm: | |
the right to check out a library book without the government knowing which one. the right to visit a website without the government knowing which one.
the right to know i cannot be held indefinitely without charge and without the benefit of legal counsel. the right to know i am presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. the right to know i am entitled to a trial by jury of my peers.
all of these have been eliminated by the bush administration. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1027
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:26 pm: | |
"Sure it's a threat but the chances of any of us being directly affected are really quite low."
Hmmm. So you're saying it's cool, like, if another 3,000 people die - as long as you are not directly involved in the mess.
You like to play the odds?
I don't want to play this game. Our freedoms are still strong, this is still a free country. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 373
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:43 pm: | |
Yes, 3000 lives are well worth Hello's paranoia. Can anyone here, without terrorist ties, cite any example of how your rights were violated?
The last time I looked, Kobe Bryant and Scott Peterson did not have their rights to a fair trial and jury. You people can be so dramatic. Take a xanax |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:47 pm: | |
Hello - do you really think that before the patroit act that if the government wanted to know something about you, they wouldn't find out?
Last I looked there were still courts, judges and juries.
Are you referring to enemy combatants? |
newjerz
Citizen
Username: Newjerz
Post Number: 113
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 3:50 pm: | |
"the right to check out a library book without the government knowing which one. the right to visit a website without the government knowing which one."
I don't really think of either of these as "rights" per se, but in general I agree privacy is important. That being said, I have nothing really to hide and if this could nab some wacko looking up how to make a dirty bomb and help law enforcement keep tabs on them, thats fine with me.
"the right to know i cannot be held indefinitely without charge and without the benefit of legal counsel. the right to know i am presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. the right to know i am entitled to a trial by jury of my peers."
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this apply mainly to the foreign combatants held at Guantanamo who aren't entitled to Constituional rights of a citizen anyway. I guess there are a few hundred others who are suspected of terrorist activities inside the US who are not being treated standardly, but once again they are not being selected randomly. Something in their actions has triggered suspicion. In a time when we are at war with terrorism, I trust Federal Judges to do the right thing in the case of these suspects. Yes it is a little bit unsavory, but I think it is an appropriate step for the time being. |
zoe
Citizen
Username: Zoe
Post Number: 307
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 4:05 pm: | |
Why are people so ready and willing to suggest that we have had our rights taken away, simply because the administration's choice of methods to combat the obvious threat of terror includes, checking on which books get checked out at the library, website visits, and holding someone indefinately without charges being made.
Only if you have something to hide, can I see these things being a major problem. How many legal americans have missed a jury trial? How many have been held without being charged? A handful? Less? Yet, the way its thrown around you'd think this is of obvious concern. Well it is to folks like Hello.
How do most of you socialists think they ran Russia? |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 1883
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 4:26 pm: | |
Aside from being personally and professionally affected by 9/11 itself, the only way my life has really altered is the longer waits at the airport, and even that hasn't been a big deal. As far as "invasion of my privacy", um, I have not done anything terrorist-like which would show up on their radar screen. Now, maybe if I was into wacko porn or tried to swing like Bill Clinton (just HAD to throw Bill in here somewhere, why not? ), I would be very paranoid because I would require a lot more secrecy and privacy to hide my deviant behavior from innocent loved ones. Even so, I don't think the government cares about what we do if it is not criminal or terroristic.
I certainly would have to be puffed up with self importance or extremely immature if I imagined the govt was concerned with what library books I read. But, since I am not a deviant, and I am secure with my life, I wish my government all the best in locating the maniacs who killed my friend and took my job, and are literally dying to kill you and your loved ones as well... |
hello
Citizen
Username: Hello
Post Number: 86
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 10:05 pm: | |
another twist to the missile story is that the financier-money launderer for the sale was a wealthy jewish diamond dealer here in manhattan, yehuda abraham. "somehow" his name was kept out of the initial publicity concerning the arrests. i guess restricting the story to the british national muslim was "simpler" for bush and foxnews than including the US citizen who wanted to make money financing terrorism here. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2015
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 10:45 pm: | |
Actually, his name was in the initial publicity. Last I heard, the charges against this guy, about actually being involved in a missile plot, weren't going to stick. The most they had on him, was that he was facilitating the transfer of money.
By the way, in the missile story there was no actual Russian source, and no actual terrorist purchaser. There was only some guy trying to buy and resell missiles, and some folks caught trying to move money surreptiously. All illegal, but apparently not part of any worldwide terrorist conspiracy.
But, as always, thanks for playing.© |
OK, it's Straw Man
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 980
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:53 am: | |
Hello once again sticking his anti-semetic foot in his mouth. |
hello
Citizen
Username: Hello
Post Number: 87
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 7:14 am: | |
nohero-
thanks- i'll take your word for it re: the story- i only learned about the guy on the 20th, when he posted bail. and i though i read the local papers pretty thoroughly. |
OK, it's Straw Man
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 982
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 7:30 am: | |
Typical Anti-semite. Always getting the story wrong. |
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