| Author |
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Tgb
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 8:56 pm: |     |
Having recently sold my home in Maplewood for a few good reasons, mostly we got tired of the fear of getting taxed out of our home. We decided to take advantage of the market, before the reval broke it.
While I was greatly impressed with the thoughtful speakers at last nite's Town Committee meeting, I get the impression that this issue has already been decided and that last nite was nothing more then "whistling past the graveyard".
One of the lesson's the people should learn is that apathy amongst the people will produce bad decisions. The more people involved the more ideas and solutions are discussed.
Someone once said that "every battle is won before it is fought." Had the people of Maplewood been more vigilant of how the town was run last year, then maybe the reval might have come out a hell of a lot fairer.
More importantly, this issue is a prime example of how dangerous one-party rule is: Democrat or Republican. The Republican Party deserves its share of the blame because their failure to field strong and informed candidates lowered the bar on political competition that is a must to produce good government.
Had the recent incumbents (DeLuca & Ryan) had a tougher reelection,perhaps they would have thought twice about dropping the ball on reval.
Last nite was a good case in point, the TC's opening statement was a blatant sign of arrogance. No matter what the wisdom they heard from the people, the TC was going through with this flawed reassessment.A done deal.
Whether we like it or not good government happens when you have a strong two-party system. Especially at the local level. Republicans or some other party should get started in becoming a counter weight to the TC run Democratic Party. Or perhaps the town should do away with partisan elections altogether.
Unfortunately, I feel the one person who will answer for the TC in Novemeber is Ellen Davenport. Having worked with Ellen on a few committee's, she is the best of the five. Good Luck Ellen.
Anyway, Good Luck Maplewood. |
Papa
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 10:55 pm: | |
you are right ,it is about time this town woke up. I am just sorry it was not sooner,I also am gone,just as soon as I can sell my house . LET SOMEBOBY ELSE PAY. I CAN NOT AFFORD IT ANY LONGER. |
Melidere
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 12:42 am: | |
Arrogance is just the wrong word. I can't believe that anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes talking to any of the members of that committee could really believe in their hearts that they haven't lost sleep and struggled with this for more nights than i'd care to count.
No one was paying any attention. Those meetings are posted, the committees are open, the whole shebang has been open to comments, criticism and participation from the very beginning.
They haven't been thinking about this for a couple of days or a couple of weeks...but for the greater part of a decade...and a lot of it is pretty darned complicated. There are laws and deadlines and constituencies with conflicting interests to consider.
What is arrogant is to even presume you can walk in to a process that has been in process for years 10 minutes before deadlines and restructure everything because you don't like the answers and properly take into consideration all of the applicable laws and concerns.
For at least the 10th time, i'm in total sympathy with the pain this is causing some people. I wish they could feel some sympathy of all the people that have been taxed out of their homes for the last 10 years. Either they don't believe they exist or they convince themselves that they somehow deserved it in a way that *they* don't.
We're shooting the messengers, and that just isn't fair. |
Tgb
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:26 am: | |
Mel:
Knowing fully that people were attending the TC meeting to address the huge tax increases people are getting, it was aT worst arrogant and at best bad judgement (and bad politics) to have read that statement before people could make their case public to the TC.
Everyone knows this a tough decision. But that is when leadership is needed the most. The lack of comunication, the passing of the buck (regarding Certified) are just not good enough.
Process? The process is flawed, broke, not real. Much evidence Tuesday nite of that. So the TC should hold off.
The process was totally mishandled. The TC should have met with each neighborhood association last year before Certified came to reassess, then meet with the neighborhood associations after they recieved their new reassessments to hear the complaints, concerns and needs of the people (east, west, north and south). I think what has caused this TC a lot problems stems from the fact that they were never been proactive in this endeavor. So the process in regards to the TC was a complete failure. Thus, the lack of confidence by a good portion of the electorate.
I'm also concerned that your argument of soaking those whose property values did increase more so than others is nothing more than class warfare. Have you heard the taxes these people were paying before this reassessment? Don't go down the road that you are somehow subsidizing these people. Your wrong.
Your getting your tax break, so to hell with everyone else is not what is needed. But more importantly, this card the TC played to justify accepting this reassessment has divided the town and for that the TC bares that burden alone. |
Melidere
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 8:45 am: | |
They did meet with each neighborhood association last year. It was called a campaign and they were doing something called running for office. Ever attend one of those little coffee klatches? They don't usually need much more space than a living room given the attendance.
They did listen to the complaints, concerns and needs of the people (east, west, north and south). Many people now complaining completely supported ordering this revaluation. They didn't realize how extreme the disparities have become.
As to not going down the road that there are areas of this town that are overtaxed....it isn't wrong just because you say so. You explain to me how it is that the taxes on the homes on Ball court are almost identical to the ones on baker and you explain to me exactly why that is fair and not a subsidy. |
Jake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 10:13 am: | |
DeLuca & the TC's lack of understanding of the "big picture" is truly astounding. The fear that has been created over the past few months has devastated every fiber of our community. Real estate, commerce & our schools will all continue suffer immeasurably.
Any time you intentionally inject uncertainty into a market of any kind, chaos follows.
One of the unique aspects of Maplewood, is the village. What happens when rents are raised, bussiness' fail & empty stores replace the quaint mecca that presently exists?
Will the the people who recieved a tax break step in & save the beaucolic Village just as they have for the Springfield Ave Project? Or is the Village on the wrong side of town. |
Dmm
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 9:16 am: | |
I moved to Maplewood in the last year and am not familiar with the TCs of the past.
I ask- why did a reval NOT happen in 1991? Or '92, or '93 or '94, or '95 ...
I am troubled by the notion that the current TC is altogether responsible for this huge jump in valuations when the last reval was 20 years ago!
Comments, please. |
Ffof
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 1:02 pm: | |
Look- the people on the TC now have been on practically the whole decade. They put this off year after year and now have the gall to blame the current situation on Grasmere (he left in '90). It's unbelievable that the people keep reelecting these guys. Now you'll know who to vote for in November. |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 1:37 pm: | |
Anybody here EVER hear me or anyone else on the TC blaming Grasmere for this? Just not true. [Bob's last year on the TC was 1994 by the way].
Only one member of the TC has been on it for the entire decade. Ellen got on in '90. I got on in '92, Burt in '94, Celia in '96 and Vic in '98.
And we've been talking about doing this for several years, by the way... |
Ffof
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 3:02 pm: | |
ok, I'm sorry i got the facts wrong, but Vic was interviewed on the ch 7 news last week and he said that the assessment problem was one that he inherited from the "old" administration. What do you think he was he referring to? |
Jake
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 3:36 pm: | |
Mr Ryan is keenly aware of all the facts concerning this tax issue. The ex-mayor knows what DeLuca said on CH 7 News. Yet, he has been stoicly forthright, according to his humble estimation, by responding to critisism & challenges on this site.
The TC hoped, somehow, the whole issue would go by without much protest & under the radar by Jan 10th. Sorry folks, not a chance! Although, the ex-mayor is a good Maplewoodian & he stated he will pay his exorbitant & regressive tax increase for the betterment of our beautiful town. Bravo.... Gerry!
Maybe you'll get a few more congratulatory slaps on the back next time you are down having a Heineken at Cent'anni! |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 3:44 pm: | |
Thanks: people accuse us of Grasmere-bashing about this context and that's just not true.
I would guess Vic referred to me, since the process started on my watch :-)
A reval probably should have been launched in 1989 or so for enaction in 1991. If one had been done then, then this one might not have uncovered disparities that are quite as extreme as this one. |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 5:29 pm: | |
I hate Heineken. And sarcastic innuendo.
Have a nice day. |
Jake
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 8:27 am: | |
You may hate sarcastic innuendo, Gerry my friend, but you have never shied away from getting your picture in the News Record, glad-handing with your minions & generally basking in the glow of the lime-light that has been created by the many outstanding civic achievements that "OTHER" Maplewoodians have attained!
Unfortunately, this community requires much more, including, steadfast stewardship during these tenuous times.
The TC's failure to inform, lead & foster spirit in this fabulous town, is tantamount to malpractice.
Mr Ryan's arrogance is so irksome & offensive to many in Maplewood, I wonder if he will garner the same "champion" status that his cohort DeLuca has with his "new constituency"!! |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 9:02 am: | |
Jake: With friends like you... |
Jake
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 9:48 am: | |
Brilliant retort!! I hope you can generate another part-time hobby to replace your current "Passion" of unprecedented guidance & leadership after the next election. There may be a position available for "Court Jester"!!!!!!! |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 10:26 am: | |
The only thing irksome and offensive here is your personal attacks, which don't even have the redeeming quality of being funny.
We've already established that you have a strong dislike for me -- it's in all your postings -- and that you are not man enough to sign your real name to anything you say here, or to say any of the things you're saying to my face. Everyone gets all those points, Jake, and they reflect well upon you. |
Jake
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 11:37 am: | |
Dislike is hardly the word. The facts are the facts! You sold out!
The Funny thing is I was not trying to be funny.
I am just one of the many who feel powerless in this situation, due to your lack of leadership & for failing miseralbly to create a equitable solution for the ENTIRE Township!!!. |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 11:47 am: | |
Sold out what? and to whom? |
Eb1154
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 12:28 pm: | |
Jerry,
The people whose taxes are going down (to where they belong) do not feel that you sold out anyone.
In fact it's quite the contrary. We feel you and the TC finally included everyone in the town in a major decision, something previous TC's didn't do and it is greatly appreciated. Don't give in to the complainers and those who take personal attacks at the TC. The TC did the reval because it was the fair thing to do. Doing the fair thing is not always popular but atleast you can sleep easier knowing that you didn't try to screw anyone. |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 1:00 pm: | |
Face it Jerry, you made a crooked deal in order to get yourself one of the highest tax increases in town. Don't try and deny it. |
Jake
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 3:02 pm: | |
Gerry, this isn't personal, it's just business! I know you would love to condemn those who disagree with your cogent, well concieved & flawless economic wisdom.
You would like nothing more than to divert the attention away from yourself & the TC by criticizing those who see this tax situation as destroying the fabric that makes up Maplewood. Unfortunatly, you can't.
The TC's fundemental failure to rectify a serious problem by creating a hardship situation elsewhere in town, is classic bad government!
Most people could care less weather Mr Ryan has no issue with paying this HUGE increase. I know quite a few at Town Hall last week who would beg to differ! Be proud of yourself Gerry & Co.!! |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 3:36 pm: | |
Sorry, Jake, but the only condemnation has been coming from you. I have not criticized you, or anyone else, and I've not tried to divert attention from this issue; quite the opposite.
I understand that you are angry about the reval, and are angry with me personally. I get it. You've been spewing off here on a bunch of threads about what a bad guy I am. I get your message. I still wish you had the stones to call me up and talk to me about it or say something to my face, like a lot of folks in town have. (on all sides of this issue, I might add).
I think you need a dose of reality. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. Just because you can call me names anonymously here doesn't make you right, clever, civic-minded, or productive.
Other than to throw stones at me on a half-dozen threads on this board, do you have any kind of a point to make?
Because I'm through replying to your nonsense, Jake. Off, to talk with others that want to communicate and that might have reasonable ideas about working through this issue.
Jerry Ryan |
Thomas
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 4:01 pm: | |
Jerry
I'm sorry it has come to this. Some of the previous comments are very insulting but its your own fault, not for anything you have done, but for what you haven't done. When this problem with certified became obvious in December you should have jumped on it, did something. When I say "you" I really mean you and Vic as he is now Mayor. I think your starting to understand how serious this is by some of your statements in the past few days. Its like a snowball effect the longer you and Vic take to addessess this the worse it gets.
I am very surprised Ms. Davenport hasn't been more vocal, I can't help but feel that if she were still Mayor things would have been handled differently. Ms. Davenport seems to differ to the Mayor now. Is that how the TC is suppose to work. Please excuse my ignorance of how politics work.
I accused you weeks ago of defending Certified's screwup. Its only after the outcry has been so loud that a deaf man could hear it that I see you starting to turn. Better late than never.
I hope next you & Vic will realize Mr. Galante will need much more than 2 weeks to review the Certified Debacle.
Good luck |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 4:15 pm: | |
I think everybody, Jake especially, needs to recognize that if Jerry really wanted to avoid the situation he wouldn't be on this board trying to answer people's questions. Of all the people in this situation, Jerry has shown the most courage and forthrightness. He doesn't have to be here you know. Anybody who says he is not trying hard to resolve this situation in the fairest way possible is either insincere or willfully blind to evidence to the contrary. |
Ffof
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 6:00 pm: | |
Lseltzer et al- you've go to be kidding- every time someone tries to point out the flaws of Certified or the flawed process , Jerry acts like "teflon Man" to prevent himself from being implicated at all in this whole bad affair. Jerry- it's about time you take some responsibility for this fiasco and as Thomas said, you should have acted way before the masses descended on town hall last tues. |
Face
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 6:37 pm: | |
I agree that things were not communicated effectively and that fact has helped bring about this current crisis. Yes, I do hold the TC responsible. Have they learned anything? They should have appealed to the residents earlier for assistance in working for an acceptable and fair reassessment. They ought to now! It is obvious that they are faced with tough decisions. That is what the job intails. They should show more sense now. What needs to be done to correctly arrive at a solution should be also obvious. The TC must ask for, and be willing to accept the community's help in fixing this reval. |
Jur050
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 7:42 pm: | |
It is never too late to admit that you were wrong. It is always a good idea to ask for help. |
Ffof
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 8:27 am: | |
Better late than never...it takes a big man to admit he was wrong...it takes a tough man to make a tender chicken...a man, a plan, a canal, Panama. |
Tracks
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 11:40 am: | |
So if it turns out that certified did a good job on the reval and their assesments are correct, will the the people who are screaming admit they were wrong? |
Nicky
| | Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 5:09 pm: | |
Many people have received letters stating decreases(some have received increases). Will Certified admit they are wrong? |
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