| Author |
Message |
    
mb3303
Citizen
Username: Mb3303
Post Number: 89
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:12 am: |     |
This morning the public works people showed up a few doors down from me and proceeded to cut down a perfectly healthy, giant oak tree. Why? Because 10 feet of sidewalk had to be replaced and the roots were in the way. I understand that sidewalks need to be replaced sometimes, and that the town probably has some sort of legal obligation to provide decent sidewalks, but is cutting down a huge old growth tree the only way to do this? I called DPW and they explained what was happening, explained that the roots prevented the sidewalk from being laid, but I just am still stunned and shocked that this has happened and I'd really like to know what if anything can be done about future tree loss. As houses are sold, and certificates of continued occupancy are issued, sidewalks will need to be fixed (the house this tree was in front of recently sold). We all know how many jagged sidewalks there are around town, and if the only solution to fixing them is to remove the trees, we're eventually going to find ourselves living in yet another treeless suburb.
Can someone please help me make sense of this? I'm a reasonable person, and understand trees don't last forever, but this tree was perfectly healthy and safe. Seems a terrible waste for 10 feet of sidewalk (if that).
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notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 683
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 2:50 pm: | |
That's very disappointing. As long as the sidewalk is smooth, does it really matter if it's perfectly flat? Trees add considerable value and appeal to a property. Whoever made the decision to cut that tree down made a bad one that cannot be fixed anywhere near as easily as 10 feet of sidewalk. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3332
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 3:03 pm: | |
About ten or fifteen years ago Park Road (Avenue?) between Valley and Springfield was redone because of drainage problems. Most of the old trees were removed and was butt ugly for quite sometime. The same thing happened, although not quite as badly, when Ridgewood Road was repaved and new sidewalks installed several years ago.
There has to be a better way, although I really don't have a solution. |
mb3303
Citizen
Username: Mb3303
Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 4:42 pm: | |
Admittedly, the sidewalk was not smooth. A person in a wheelchair would have problems, but I just wish there was some way to avoid this sort of destruction. I hope the town at least plants another tree there, though it doesn't seem they do that very often. I can point to 3 trees down in the past year that have not had anything planted there as a replacement, which is disappointing. |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3096
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 5:32 pm: | |
Suggestion. Perhaps the township can just cut out the offending root, fix the sidwalks and streets and see if the tree makes it. Some will and others will die.
But the ones enthat make it are worth keeping.
Then the lawyer in me comes out. Say the township did that, and the next big storm comes and that tree falls on your house because a root was cut.
Will you sue?
Think about it.
Later, George |
redY67
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 84
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 6:02 pm: | |
I am surprised that that happened. We need to get our sidewalk replaced, and don't want to pay the $2000 without getting rid of the tree. The tree in front of our house is half dead, and the town refuses to remove it. I can understand people not wanting the trees to disappear, but the homeowners are responsible for replacing the sidewalk. With trees this size, cutting out the roots is not a solution. It will cause future damage to the sidewalk, again putting the problem back on the homeowner. I for one do not want to shell out $2000 every few years. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1695
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 6:22 pm: | |
$2000 for sidewalk replacement? How many linear feet. |
redY67
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 85
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 9:10 pm: | |
I couldn't tell you, I had a couple of estimates, and it is about ten "blocks" of sidewalk. I don't know if it was a bad time of year, because one neighbor who has a corner lot only paid $600 for her entire sidewalk. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1696
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 9:16 pm: | |
I would have guessed that the average rate would be $90-100/standard sized square. |
njphilf
Citizen
Username: Njphilf
Post Number: 48
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:17 pm: | |
George,
Do homeowners have any legal rights in forcing the town to fix the sidewalk? What annoys me is that my sidewalk is coming up because of a tree planted by the town. Apparently when my grandparents owned the house, the town had planted trees up and down the streets.
Thx!
Phil |
lseltzer
Citizen
Username: Lseltzer
Post Number: 1681
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:18 pm: | |
Tjohn's right. Standard is about $100/block.
Why do so many people assume there must be a better way? Maybe the township does it this way because it's best. The only real idea I've heard is George's and even he sees the real problem with it. |
algebra2
Citizen
Username: Algebra2
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:34 pm: | |
I've gotten quotes of $600/block. Anyone have a name of a cheaper solution? |
Jackie Day
Citizen
Username: Zoesky1
Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:57 pm: | |
A few years ago (I think in 1998 or '99) there was a big outcry (I know, because I participated in it) over senseless and unnecessary old-growth tree removal along Prospect St. when it was being repaved, new sidewalks were put in, and new belgian block curbing was being installed. A bunch of homeowners banded together and asked the Town Council to reconsider. At the time, there was one sympathetic TC member who did help postpone and subsequently alter the plans to remove all the trees. It was worth fighting for. The street repairs were made and they worked around these trees. The town department of public works just sees tree removal as the easiest way out, but obviously it is not always necessary, as was proven out in the Prospect St. case. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3336
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 8:10 am: | |
There is a thread in the sO section of this board about sidewalks. At one time SO had a master contract that homeowners could buy off to get their sidewalks replaced at a reasonable price. Apparently Westfield still has a similar program.
TC Guys and Gals, any chance of having Doug work something like this up here in MW? There sure seems to be a lot of price gouging going on around here. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1379
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:55 am: | |
redY67- I'm not sure why the town refuses to remove it. We were in the same predicament years ago with a very sick Elm tree. They came promptly to take it down (sad as that was) but then we were able to fix the sidewalk.
In fact, any tree within 8 feet (I think, but maybe it's 6) from the curb is considered a town tree. |
Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1881
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 12:08 pm: | |
Jackie:
The huge old tree on the SE corner of Prospect and Oakview was one of the trees saved as a result of the outcry. A very short time later, that tree fell over and damaged the roof of the house in front of it. The people who lived in that house were very happy that no one was home at the time and no passers by were hurt. They were also very unhappy that they had fought so hard to save their tree.
The sad truth is that many of these old trees have very shallow root systems. Road work, sidewalk repair and erosion contribute to undermine the roots until the trees keel over.
The best solution I know of to this problem (apart from removing the trees) is to plant them on homeowners' lawns rather than along the median. The grassy area gives the trees more space in which to develop their root systems with minimum disruption, the sidewalks get to stay down longer and everyone wins.
Perhaps the town could offer to plant flowers along the medians of those who agree to have town trees planted on their lawns. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 679
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 1:56 pm: | |
Joan seems to be raising a good point. If you cut the roots on a tree big enough to push up the sidewalk what's keeping the tree from falling over? |
redY67
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 87
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 6:21 pm: | |
I have to say that is another reason that makes me very nervous to have our sidewalks replaced. I want the town to remove the tree, not only because I don't want to pay for future damage, but I am afraid of it falling over. The tree is huge, it is half dead, and the majority of the roots are under the sidewalk into our yard. If they cut out the roots, how in the world is the tree going to stand? |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3341
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 2:07 pm: | |
For the two other posters old enough to remember Peter, Paul and Mary had a line they used in concert, "clean mind or clean body, take you choice". 
We can either have nice tree along the streets to look at or nice sidewalks to walk on, make your choice. Even though I have tripped on a few heaved concrete squares while walking in the dark, I am going to come down on the side of the trees. |
davel
Citizen
Username: Davel
Post Number: 87
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 5:16 pm: | |
It is too bad most of Maplewood and South Orange have such narrow grass buffers between the street and sidewalk. What were they thinking when they laid it out so many years ago? If the buffers were even 18" wider there would be much less of a problem. I've heard that the London Plane/Sycamore trees hold up well in this hostile environment. |
OK, it's Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 412
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 5:49 pm: | |
I don't have an opinion on this yet. I see the need for safety, and I also love the trees in these two towns. We just got a dog, so now we're out walking a lot. The individual houses are interesting and beautiful, and the trees are breathtaking. A friend recently visited from NYC and said, "You're living in the American Dream."
Tom Reingold
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argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 75
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 12:34 pm: | |
Plant trees in your front yard. So many people have grass lawns which they mow and mow but never use for anything because the kids' fort is in back, the deck is in back, the grill is in back... My front yard is grass (though we do have three large trees as well) and I hate the grass and plan to change it. Why mow the front lawn all the time for no good reason? A nice lawn is meant to be walked on and played on, not as a repository for chemical enhancers to be looked at briefly by cars whizzing by. Grass front lawns are for the most part a waste of space. If more people landscaped their front yards and considered planting larger trees rather than little ornamental dohickeys then the trees along the street would be an enhancement and losing one of them for any particular reason would not "deforest" an entire block. Of course this involves changing the way individuals think about using and maintaining their property rather than griping at the local government so it's not likely to have as much popular appeal. It also cuts into the business model of the landscapers who rely on the regular churn of lawn mowing once a week (whether necessary or not) and the application of chemicals (again whether necessary or not) rather than the more seasonal operations which would be involved in the maintenance of trees, shrubbery, etc.
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SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 - 3:05 pm: | |
More than a dozen or so years ago, I participated in a tree survey in So. Orange. After taking a class, we were given a designated area and evaluated the town trees. We checked the roots, evaluated the general health of the tree and noted any hazerdous dead wood on our survey sheet. Perhaps it's time for both towns to re-visit this program. |
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