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Message |
    
OK, it's Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 400
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:28 am: |     |
I got the sign up sheets for my daughters, for their EZ-Lunch passes. They start school in Maplewood for the first time on Sept 3. The schools do not accept cash payments for lunch.
I can recognize the advantages of this scheme, but unless the law has changed, this is not legal. The sentence on the paper money, "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private" means it is illegal to say "no cash accepted."
I'm not sure if I should raise a stink because 1. I don't know if this would inconvenience me, 2. remedying the problem could cost the school district a lot of money, and 3. the main reason I would raise a stink is on the principle of the matter, not the practicality.
But still, I'm ticked off.
What do others feel about this?
Tom Reingold
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mb3303
Citizen
Username: Mb3303
Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:38 am: | |
If cash is indeed not accepted, then I would defintely complain. a) like you said, it must be illegal; and b) I'm sure there are *some* families in town who can't afford a significant cash outlay all at once, as opposed to giving their kid money each day. An example that comes to mind would be a kid whos mother is a waitress and makes her money in cash day to day. I think it's definitely worth pursuing. |
jab
Citizen
Username: Jab
Post Number: 107
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:47 am: | |
I'm not familiar with the program, but perhaps the purpose of the program is to prevent any stigma associated with receiving free or reduced-price lunch by forcing everybody to use this card. I remember that when I was in elementary school parents were strongly encouraged to buy lunch tickets because some students would otherwise use their lunch money to buy candy at the convenience store near the school. Maybe that is another concern. How far in advance do you have to pay for lunch? I'm just wondering whether it matters enough to pursue (but again, I am not familiar with the program). |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5061
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:54 am: | |
It's a sad day when you can't use loose change to get an ice cream sandwich.
I think Tom's right. If it's a monetary transaction, which it is, cash must be accepted period. |
OK, it's Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 401
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:57 am: | |
I don't know how far in advance, and there probably isn't a rule there. If your kid brings lunch from home, it's OK to have a zero balance on EZ-Lunch.
If removing the stigma is the goal, I don't see why it has to be mandatory. Some kids who pay full price will choose to use EZ-Lunch, and some won't. Some kids who get reduced price will use EZ-Lunch, and no one will know that they pay reduced price.
Tom Reingold
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1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 265
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:13 am: | |
I think the idea is to avoid kids using daily lunch money on non-lunch items, or even just on non-school-provided lunch items (lots of kids gather at Bagel Chateau before school in the am and buy a bagel for lunch).
but, the way I understand it, your kid can bring in cash from home on any given day, and have it "applied" to the account, and then immediately use the account balance to buy ice cream. we have never signed up for this account, yet my kid has used cash at MMS.
I don't understand getting so worked up about this when you can bring in the $$$ at any time. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2017
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:17 am: | |
1-2: I know that it is supposed to be the policy, that students can pay with cash in the lunch line. But, from Mr. Reingold's post, it sounds like that may be changing (at least, in some of the schools). I would agree, that a parent should complain about being forced to use the lunch account system. |
jab
Citizen
Username: Jab
Post Number: 108
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:17 am: | |
I also remember that our high school offered the lunch tickets and by then only kids who received free or reduced-price lunch used them. Nobody else did. A close friend of mine, one of the few kids to receive the subsidy, was embarrassed every day when she used the ticket to get lunch. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:23 am: | |
How many people in the school system are on free or reduced school lunch? |
Robert Little
Citizen
Username: Boblittle
Post Number: 53
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:39 am: | |
See fringe's education website at http://hometown.aol.com/njfabian/freereduced.htm for some very precise answers to cjc's question. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:07 pm: | |
what are the qualifications you have to meet to get a free or reduced lunch? |
paddy
Citizen
Username: Paddy
Post Number: 126
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:18 pm: | |
Not sure that it's illegal. Places like Fedex do not accept cash either. |
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 710
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:20 pm: | |
See:
http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/governance/iegs/IEGs03-04.htm |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 268
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:30 pm: | |
but the kid can still bring in cash with them at any time for the account - it says so on the sign-up sheet, which my family also received yesterday. so what's the real difference?
maybe part of this is a way to make money off the money being held in reserve? |
Robert Little
Citizen
Username: Boblittle
Post Number: 54
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:45 pm: | |
Nemser v. New York City Transit Authority
530 N.Y.S.2d 493
N.Y.Sup.,1988.
DAVID B. SAXE, Justice.
The issue I am asked to decide is whether the federal legal tender statute (31 U.S.C. § 5103) mandates the acceptance by the New York City Transit Authority ("NYCTA") of legal tender dollar bills as bus fare.
[1] The plaintiffs, two public spirited bus riders in New York City, have brought this proceeding seeking a declaratory judgment that the policy of the NYCTA in refusing to accept dollar bills as bus fare violates federal and state law. Expounding at great length on the historical basis of our nation's legal tender statutes, the plaintiffs have thoroughly investigated, briefed and applied to this current dispute cases *370 and authorities dealing with beaver pelts, wampum and the enforceability of contract gold clauses during the Great Depression. Although the analysis offered is novel and interesting, I hold that the federal legal tender statutes cannot be interpreted to require acceptance of a particular denomination of currency, such as single dollar bills, for bus fare.
The crux of the plaintiff's argument is contained in 31 U.S.C. § 5103, where it is stated that:
"United States coins and currency ...are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
I conclude that the statute cannot and should not be applied as broadly as the plaintiffs urge.
[2] First of all, it strains logic that Congress would have intended the statute to preclude a payee from limiting the locations where certain types of cash payment may be made. The NYCTA does not refuse dollar bills; it merely limits its acceptance of them to those locations where its employees, with appropriate safeguards, can issue in exchange the equivalent of a ticket--a token, which is in turn accepted by the Authority's turnstiles and bus fare boxes. Such a practice is not unusual; other carriers require their passengers to purchase a ticket in one location and then to tender the ticket once aboard the vehicle.
[3] Furthermore, a "reasonableness" standard has long been held to limit the carrier's obligation to accept legal tender. For instance, in Barker v. Central Park, North and East River Railroad Co., 151 N.Y. 237, 45 N.E. 550 [1896], where a passenger tendered a five dollar bill in order to pay a five cent fare and was turned away by the conductor, a dismissal of his action for damages was affirmed. The Court there concluded that such a large amount was not a reasonable sum for which to seek change on a railroad car; additionally, it held that the question of what is reasonable in this regard is addressed to the court (151 N.Y. 237, 241, 242, 45 N.E. 550, supra). Similarly, in Martin v. The Rhode Island Company, 32 R.I. 162, 78 A. 548 [1911], the Rhode Island Supreme Court upheld as reasonable a streetcar conductor's refusal to accept payment by five one-cent coins where the company's policy was that payment must be made by placement of a five-cent coin in the conductor's automatic fare collecting device. That court cited the "incidental power of a common carrier to establish reasonable rules regulating the time, place, and mode for payment of its reasonable charges" (see Martin v. The Rhode Island Co., 32 R.I. 162, 166, 78 A. 548 supra ). Thus, the absolute language of the legal tender statute is clearly modifiable by the necessary consideration of what is reasonable under the circumstances....
Plaintiff looks to other, smaller bus lines in other cities and in this city to argue that those systems' acceptance of dollar bills reflects the inherently unreasonable nature of the NYCTA's policy. I do not agree. The reasonableness of its policy is not tied to practices adopted by other bus lines.
[4] I further note that other circumstances indisputably exist in which payment of money is required, and in which dollar bills--at least until very recently--were unacceptable as payment, e.g. in vending machines, and at automated laundromats. To suggest that a proprietor's use of such automated systems violates the legal tender statute is ludicrous. The defendant's present day bus fare collection system is more closely analogous to such automated systems than it is to the fare collection systems on streetcars a century ago, and its institution of an automated fare collection system which is unable to accept single dollar bills is eminently reasonable.
For the foregoing reasons, upon searching the record, partial summary judgment on plaintiffs' fourth cause of action is granted in favor of the defendant, and that cause of action is dismissed on the merits.... |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 1:23 pm: | |
actually, only the Middle Schools and CHS will accept cash for lunches. The EZ Lunch letter explicitly states that cash is not accepted at the elementary schools. For younger children, this is a reasonable system that eliminates the problem of lost/stolen lunch money. The child only needs to remember his/her PIN. |
dytunck
Citizen
Username: Dytunck
Post Number: 128
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 2:41 pm: | |
I like how the confidential PIN numbers are in clear view in the window envelopes. |
MB Goff
Citizen
Username: Mbgoff
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 2:43 pm: | |
My son attended Seth Boyden and says there is no cash box/drawer at the cafeteria. According to him any money he brought to school to be applied to his account took three days to become available. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1377
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 2:56 pm: | |
Doc Boogie is right.
This is not new policy by they way. It's always been like this. And mbgoff- Demand a better cashier. At Jefferson, say the balance is .50 and if a kid brings in an envelope that day, the cashier makes a note of it and still lets the kid get lunch. Actually, they give kids a few days grace period anyway. But after that, it's NO SOUP FOR YOU!
Our PTA always keeps graham crackers and raisins for the "forgetful child" |
mommydee
Citizen
Username: Mommydee
Post Number: 52
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 3:06 pm: | |
Since my kids are both in elementary school I like the ezlunch accounts. Most of the time they bring lunch, but it is nice to know if my daughter forgets her lunch she can get lunch without having to worry about having cash on her. They have account numbers they are supposed to use when purchasing their food. I know she forgot hers once and they were able to use her name instead. As far as the amount to open an account,I believe I only paid 10 dallars to start. I personally like the idea of not having to have a first and second grader carry around lunch money which probably would get lost. |
OK, it's Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 403
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 3:16 pm: | |
The advantages that mommydee mentions are fine. But I think there should be a choice.
The fact that FedEx doesn't accept cash is not evidence that it's legal.
Bob Little's case citation is interesting, but does it apply? Can the school make the case that cash is utterly unreasonably inconvenient?
If it's true that cash is still allowed, then I have no beef.
Tom Reingold
|
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 1526
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 3:38 pm: | |
As far as I can tell the no cash policy for the younger children is a very pragmatic one and has absolutely NOTHING to do with free/reduced lunch. It means that big kids can't bully/extort younger or smaller kids for their lunch money. (Don't think it doesn't happen.) It means that the kids who walk to school won't spend all their lunch money on chips and gum at the local candy shop/Krauser's/whatever before school and have nothing available for lunch. It means that the money won't get lost accidentally. I think it's a good thing. (We don't use it because of food allergies but I'd be happy to use it otherwise.)
Cathy |
spw784
Citizen
Username: Spw784
Post Number: 359
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 4:57 pm: | |
CASH is accepted at CHS for Elem school accounts (i.e. you can go to CHS in person to apply cash to your child's account.)
Cathy's pretty much got it right... as do others - no cash drawers, etc.
Just remember.. there needs to be money in the SNACK portion of the account if your child could want anything other than the main lunch - - i.e. second slice of pizza, teddy grahams, a bagel, etc. Some parents plop $5-10 in each of the two portions of the account, even if they have no intention of using it... this way if something does come up and mom or dad forgets to make lunch, or the lunch gets left on the bus, or kitchen table, etc, the child can still get a lunch.
Most schools will feed a child once or twice (when there is not enough money in the account), but some parents start racking up bills of $30-$40, and STILL expect their kid to be fed without paying down on the bill.
Free/reduced lunch criteria is set up by the State or Federal Gov't.. something to do with income level and family size. With the PIN system, students don't know who is on free/Reduced lunch (unless the child says something).
There is even a spot on the form to check to withhold the free /reduced lunch info from other parties... so this past year, even the school staff didn't know who qualified. |
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