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Message |
    
copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 38
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 9:46 am: |     |
This morning on the "Radio Chick" Show, they began a discussion about things people had stolen out of hotels. The discussion began because one of the hotel chains is having an "amnesty day". They don't want the towels back, but stories about what you took and why. The Radio Chick stole the hotel chain's idea.
One guy said he was staying at the Y on the 6th floor and folded his mattress, threw it out the window, ran out of the hotel to catch it. Th Radio Chick asked if the mattress had stains, but he couldn't remember. Another guys said that his parents had taken two folding chairs with the name of the hotel in the back which they pulled out on big holidays when they needed extra chairs -- can you imagine the discussion which was engendered by granny asking why your chairs say Hotel Granada in the back? The stories were so funny that I was in tears.
Turn the radio on. The Radio Chick is probably wanting to hear your "white trash" tale right now. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 271
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 9:58 am: | |
doh! no more internet streaming for the Q! |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:02 pm: | |
NRL- Nice thought. I do not think it is acceptable. However, since I do not want to have further damage/loss, I will take precautions. It would really suck to lose my snowblower because I didn't want to chain it up on principle.
As for the parents - I agree that they should be held accountable, even if the kids are old enough for the judicial system. What kid can come home with an expensive bike that the parent knows wasn't a gift or purchase? And what kids are joyriding in stolen cars when they should be home? Parents who can't deal with this should be held accountable.
I, too, did more than my fair share of stupid, lawless youthful acts. And my biggest fear in getting caught was not the cops; it was my parents. My mother did not intervene on the one minor indiscretion for which I was caught. She let me take the punishment. And that was the end of that.
But, in terms of the loud kids - I think most of them are just obnoxious, not dangerous. It's not the kids walking home from school at 3pm that I worry about; it's the ones who don't go to school. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 275
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:21 pm: | |
I live in Tuscan area. Have left my garage door open MANY times, despite the warnings of several of my neighbors. Nothing has gone missing.
though - I would definitely support and participate in a Neighborhood Watch, which can't hurt and could only help. Anyone organizing can PL me. |
copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 39
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 2:22 pm: | |
I agree that parents need to ask their kids where they got anything which seems unusual, like a bike or rusty tools. Why would a kid buy those with their money?
Channeling their energy seems like a good idea too -- like building a skateboarding arena so that they don't do that on the streets, make a racket, and endanger their own welfare. Why not films at the library or at school for $0.50? popcorn for $0.25 on the weekends? The PTA could volunteer to supervise/sponsor it. Years ago there used to be a youth counselor in Montclair. How about getting some of the local grad students of counseling programs (Kean University, for example) to do field work with the kids so that they can talk out their feelings instead of acting out on them.
I agree that kids need to face the consequences of their actions. Mabel Shoemaker let me know that next time I got caught doing something stupid, I would have to pay. My mom had to pick me up at the justice of the peace's office, and all she did was cry. She never cried. My friend's parents forbade their daughter to talk to me, the career criminal, who was leading their daugher astray according to them.
However, there should be distinctions between kid pranks and crime. Are the kids taking riding lawn mowers which they are selling for cash or old bikes which later end up in the park? No need to hire more police officers in town to solve potential open garage robberies by teenage boys.
Why can't we say to the kids directly, "Are you checking out everyone garage?" Not in an accusatory way, but as a means of engaging the kid in conversation. I walk by and check out garages too. I don't have any intention of stealing, but I am simply curious about what people keep in there. It's interesting because it is something which is supposed to be private, so it triggers curiousity in me. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 3:19 pm: | |
When I was a teen, I used to steal things from garages all the time. I don't know why my parents never asked where I got that riding mower I drove home one evening. But man, in September when I pulled that John Deere into the high school parking lot, I was BMOC. |
OK, it's Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 425
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 3:44 pm: | |
I think precautions AND justice are the answer. I mean we should lock our garages or lock up the bikes in them, because we know the crime is possible. And I agree that we should catch the offenders and make them pay the consequences. I don't see these concepts as contradictory.
copihue, your ideas are very clever, but who will lead them?
Tom Reingold
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thelight
Citizen
Username: Thelight
Post Number: 70
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 3:49 pm: | |
Hello All,
In response to NRL. Yes, unfortunately in this day and age, you MUST not only keep your garage doors closed, but also locked AND you have to chain any thing of value down so that when these cretin children/thieves smash open your doors and windows of your garages, they will be unable to drag off their booty! Usually, when we (the Police) are called when one of these urchins are removing items from a garage, and we can catch them in the "act", most of the time these low-lifes are under 18 (Juveniles). We arrest them and bring them to Police Headquarters. We try to contact the Parent(s) or Guardian, and then some interesting things start to happen. Many times, these Juveniles tell us that they don't have a phone, or they don't know where their Mothers are, or on the rare occaision we do get through to a Parent, they usually say either that they don't have a car and so that they cannot come pick up their kid, or the popular line of late is "Can you keep them for a few days?" or even "I'll try to get down there as soon as I can get a ride" So as far as Parents taking responsability for their Kids, don't count on it. So in closing Folks, even in Maplewood, YOU MUST LOCK UP EACH AND EVER ITEM THAT YOU OWN, IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO VANISH!.
Thank You,
The Light. |
mayflower2258
Citizen
Username: Mayflower2258
Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 4:03 pm: | |
Copihue: If you walk by and check out my garage by going down my driveway because you are curious, I would think you are up to no good or weird. Maybe you shouldn't do that. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 1701
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 4:09 pm: | |
Light-
When parents don't come to get their kids, do the kids sit in the cell the entire time? I'm thinking it gives them some quality time to contemplate the situation. That's better, IMHO, than being picked up & back home within a couple hours of arrest.
Are there any regulations on the books that allow parents to be prosecuted for illegal activities conducted by their minor children who are multiple offenders? |
copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 40
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 7:54 pm: | |
Mayflower,
I don't walk up anyone's driveway, that's trespassing and my criminal career was short lived. I said that open garage doors trigger my curiosity similar to the way a PERSONAL/CONFIDENTIAL on the outside of an envelope triggers my curiosity. That also doesn't mean that I take anyone's letters home to steam them open.
Tom, I think that it is up to parents to get the town to develop outlets for kids in the summer. All the programs I have seen for kids are for the daytime, not for evenings. We have a social worker in town, she can supervise an intern, but someone has to talk to her. I have too many projects right now, and no kids.
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Joan
Citizen
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 1893
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 8:04 pm: | |
I like Copihue's idea of providing more constructive activities for the children who are wandering our streets, peering into garages and such; however, I would ask which children these programs would be serving. We live in a town which is only 3 1/2 square miles in size. Thus we are very close to several neighboring towns such as Newark, Irvington, Orange, East Orange, and Vauxhall, which have a lower average standard of living than we do.
It is also possible that some of the kids stealing items from garages in town are doing it not for a challange to authority but to fence the ill gotten gains and pocket the profits. |
copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 41
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 10:22 am: | |
What I thought was significant about the peering into garages, is that is was done by 13-year-old boys in the summer when they have time to get into trouble because they don't have schoolwork to keep them busy. But keeping them busy all the time is only half the solution; the other half has to do with proving them with the support systems so that they can internalize societal values. That is, you do what is right not because you are told by your parents, your teachers, your priest not to do it, but because you know that it is what you believe is the right thing for you. It seems that you only learn this by a discussion or by experimenting and experiencing for yourself that to violate what everyone arround has told you makes you feel very strange and unpleasant. We can distract teenagers, but then they may learn grow up to be Ebbers, Melkens, Fastows and Stewarts, that is, violating a code of ethics as an adult which is most definitely not a funny prank. That's why a youth counselor seems like a good idea, so that they have an easy outlet to discuss these issues when they come up.
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NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 164
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 12:54 am: | |
Please dont throw the bleeding heart liberal counseling, "ask them what the problem is" programs into this. The perps are not going to take part in programs. We do not need to provide them with other activities so they wont steal our stuff. The answer here is simple. They need to know that they will be locked up if they break the law. If we are tougher on crime theyll think twice. Thats not to say the MW police officers are not doing their job well, I know about the average 2 minute response and I applaud it. Thank you boys and girls in blue and yellow.
Light,
If they have no phones or their parents do not come and claim then they should sit in jail until they do. Whoever comes to pick them up should be required to sign an agreement that states that they will be held responsible for the next time the kid breaks the law. I know its a lot of red tape but I guarantee it will make a difference and most importantly the message will get out to the others. I am not talking about the kids that yell while walking by our homes. I am talking about the kids that flat out break the law..
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copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 42
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 12:59 pm: | |
Perhaps this option is more palatable to you, NRL.
http://www.montclair.edu/iapc/history.html
If the SO/Maplewood schools are not currently sending their teachers for training, maybe they could consider it. This ethical and philosophical program is taught throughout the world, and it is centered not far from us.
Criminals belong in jail, children should go to school.
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jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 717
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 1:05 pm: | |
NRL, your first post was so hyperbolic and made me laugh so hard I assumed it was a joke. Now I'm worried.
How, or based on what, can you "guarantee it will make a difference and most importantly the message will get out to the others"?
Just about everything I've ever read on the subject suggests that that's the least effective approach--better geared toward producing career criminals and feeding the prison industrial complex than protecting public safety or dealing with petty juvenile crime.
More generally, this thread is full of classic MOL hysteria and stereotyping. Just in time for back to school we have--it would appear--an epidemic of petty theft by juveniles who have parents who are absent or don't care. And they are completely different from any of the posters who acknowledge their own youthful antics and/or offenses.
All based on 1 recent report of possibly suspicious behavior and several reports of past thefts--by persons unknown. (Most of the theft I've heard or read about in town has been adult pros in vans.)
Sure, keep your garage closed and locked. And if some kids wander up your driveway on a late August afternoon, tell 'em to take a hike. Call the cops if you really feel the need. But mostly take some chill pills.
And, just for the record, the time I left my garage door wide open all night, not a thing walked (though I'm not making a habit of it). |
Ignatius J
Citizen
Username: Ignatius_j
Post Number: 11
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 7:45 pm: | |
Where exactly is the "Tuscan Area"??? |
shh
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 635
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 9:21 pm: | |
I was referring to the area near Tuscan school. |
NRL
Citizen
Username: Nrl
Post Number: 166
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 12:01 am: | |
JFBurch,
So your answer to preventing theft, intrusion, trespassing and possibly worse is for people to take a chill pill? What an intelligent idea. How long did it take you to think of that one? And if I tell the kids that are walking up my driveway to see whats in my garage to "take a hike"(another one of your great ideas.) What are the thousands ways that discussion could go?
What do you think kids that break the law grow up to be? Coming down on them hard while their young is actually doing them a favor and will hopefully get them to straighten out. Ignoring it such as you suggest is fostering the overcrowded prisons which you are so concerned of filling up. I too have left the garage door open and nothing was taken. That doesnt prove anything except that we got lucky.
The purpose of my post was to respond to people in this town that they have to chain their stuff up to prevent crime. Of course everyone should be aware of their surroundings and protect their valuables. No one should have to chain their property in their own garage or nail the windows shut. Your post was just as hilarious as you though mine was, only mine made some sense.
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copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 43
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 8:20 am: | |
NRL, the evidence is all arround us that people take stuff sometimes just because they wanna be naughty. The thrill is being bad, not the economic gains of taking the stuff. The junk in your garage may represent that temptation to a bored,13-yr-old during the summer. I ask you to consider that in this cases, where there are no repeated infractions, where there are no economic gains, that there be a hand that says "next time it's not going to be easy." Nobody is saying ignore it, because that would encourage theft. Make the kid pay for the junk as if it were brand new, if you want, or make the kid go to see a counselor for a year, but treat him like a naughty kid and not a criminal.
John Chaffee is a philosopher/educator at La Guardia Community College, not a big name school, but he has some very good work for teachers, and he created a video tape on decision making for college students. In that tape he discusses decision making under very difficult circumstances, where morality is involved and deciding what to do is not clear, where each expert has a different recommendation for a course of action to follow. In that context he discusses the role of values in guiding that process, where we get them, and how you become aware of what they mean to you. He says that we become aware of your values by braking the code, until that point they are what your parents taught you and not yours.
I realize that some teenagers have done horrible things and we have become aware that kids can be dangerous. Telling who is who is very difficult. But if they are serious criminals, someone wrote on this thread wrote, they are coming with a van, they are not snooping into your garage while walking on the street.
OK, so some parents are too busy working, let them get a wake up call too. Why can't we try to guide these kids when the parents are failing at the job? that's what schools do every day. |
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 1534
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 8:37 am: | |
Just an FYI: the Philosophy for Children that Copihue is advocating is the curriculum for the Sunday School program at Ethical Culture Society, which is starting up its fall program next Sunday. The Sunday School runs from 11 a.m to 12:15. during the same time as the adult service/program. Check it out at http://essexethical.org/children.html
Cathy |
jfburch
Citizen
Username: Jfburch
Post Number: 718
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 8:50 am: | |
NRL, my answer to preventing theft, trespassing etc. is to lock your garage door and report any suspicious behavior.
The menacing kids ("and possibly worse") who need to do hard time is largely a figment of some active MOL imaginations.
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copihue
Citizen
Username: Vperalta
Post Number: 44
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 3:02 pm: | |
Sunday School? can't you find another name for that course? How would Dr. Winston O'Boogie impress his friends in the school parking lot with a course called Sunday School? That's a cool course and deserves a cool name. Even Remedial Ethics sounds better to me. Forgive me, C, with all due respect, I think that you have a marketing image problem there. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 12
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 1, 2003 - 4:25 pm: | |
I am always impressive. |
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