| Author |
Message |
    
Spw784
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 10:10 am: |     |
I'm just guessing, but RE probably refers to REAL ESTATE. |
Kathy
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 4:00 pm: | |
When the Marshall/Jefferson pairing was done in 1980, there were two reasons. One was that Montrose school was closed, but Marshall was not large enough to hold all the kids from Montrose. And the other was that the Marshall district at that time had the highest percentage of non-white students, while Jefferson had the lowest. (Still does, by a growing margin.) There was some thought that the state might require something to be done about that.
The solution to both problems was to pair Marshall and Jefferson, with students from both going to Marshall for K-2 and Jefferson for 3-5. Busing was put in place, with the students from the old Montrose district being bused to both Marshall and Jefferson.
One thought is that the pairing helped to stabilize the Montrose area by keeping a higher percentage of white students in the neighborhood school than the neighborhood was actually providing. Often in integrated communities, the percentage of children of color in the schools is much higher than the overall percentage of people of color in the community. This leads people to believe that the schools are not good, causing even more white flight.
By the way, this move was highly controversial at the time. The Board of Ed implemented it with only a couple of days' warning to parents, many of whom threatened to lie down in front of the buses before they would allow their children to be bused anywhere. There were big demonstrations at BOE meetings. For their troubles the BOE members were not re-elected.
Yet when, a few years ago, there were suggestions that the Marshall/Jefferson pairing might be replaced by something else, parents were equally adamant that the pairing be maintained. |
Nilmiester
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 5:37 pm: | |
Kathy: I think that's why people don't think Columbia is a good school and it is a good school for many of it's students. Montrose is a beautiful section of South Orange and the homes are magnificent. I just don't see what it matters what color the students are and why we need to articifically change it. I am pro-CCR but sometimes the message sounds like "blacks needs whites to stabalize neighborhoods which is also saying that there is no such thing as a successful black neighborhood, which is not true. |
Msuewillis
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 10:51 pm: | |
In my opinion, what we need to keep our towns integrated-- and I mean integrated permanently! is for all parts of both towns to be attractive to home-seekers of all races. It isn't so much who lives where, as who wants to move in when when a house becomes available. My most sincere hope for these two towns is that people of all colors will want to live here. The same for the schools. My son goes to Columbia High School and is getting a great education, and I want everyone to know it so everyone will have a chance to grab the opportunity that is available there. |
Nohero
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 11:40 am: | |
The discussion of the overall quality of the schools is one of the reasons why there is concern about the proposal to eliminate the elementary school instrumental programs. In the first place, a large number of students do participate in these programs. Elimination of these programs would detract from the educational opportunities offered in the elementary grades. In addition, one of the reasons for the strong music program at Columbia, is the strength of the programs at Maplewood Middle and South Orange Middle Schools. And, one of the reasons those programs have the level of participation that they do, is the existence of instrumental music instruction in the elementary grades. This is in addition to the benefits of such instruction to students in the elementary grades.
So, while the elimination of instrumental music instruction in the elementary grades might seem to have an isolated and inconsequential effect to some BOE budget planners, there would in fact be a "ripple effect" throughout the school system.
This fact means that this is a curriculum change, not just a budget issue. Presumably, the Superintendent can show how this impact on the curriculum was evaluated, with respect to inputs from the elementary school principals, the middle school principals, and the middle and high school music educators.
On the other hand, if no such evaluation was made, one has to wonder how the administration can reach the conclusion that elimination of a program is appropriate. |
Mag
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 12:45 pm: | |
With regard to courtesy bussing to Seth Boyden, one of the proposed budget items to be slashed or eliminated, mentioned above ... can anyone tell me why this was implemented in the first place? |
Mim
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 1:02 pm: | |
I once asked this same question, Mag. I was told that it was to insure that anyone who wanted to use Seth Boyden could do so, whether they were close or not, whether they had a driving/at-home parent or not. It seems critical to the idea that SB is now in essence a magnet school -- if you don't provide transportation, it really ISN'T available to everyone in the district. On the other hand, it seems like an expensive luxury. Most of those families can probably get their kids to the school on their own. |
Mag
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 1:41 pm: | |
Mim
But if courtesy bussing is one of the items being considered for a cut or elimination, then it seems not to be something that is required to be offered to currently-enrolled or prospective future students at SB, living outside the SB cachment area. I mean, its not like a large percentage of the town's parent population isn't going through incredible machinations to get their children to and from the schools they are actually districted for. |
Mim
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 3:18 pm: | |
Not sure I quite follow that. If they are considering its elimination, I can only assume that busing is NOT required -- but it was deemed desirable in order to offer SB as a legitimate alternative for every family in the district. (I have wondered if it was even widely known about. I was rather surprised myself when I heard about it from various acquaintances who chose SB this year. In each case, the kids used to be driven or walked by parents to the neighborhood school; now the bus comes for them. A dubious use of scarce public funds? I am torn.) |
Mag
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 3:45 pm: | |
Mim
Sorry if I was unclear in my post. Guess I should have paid more attention to the word "courtesy" in courtesy bussing. If its not mandated by the fact that SB is set up as a demonstration school, then I suppose what I'm saying is that I feel it is definitely a budget expense that can be eliminated. The fact that it is "desirable" just doesn't cut it. |
Nursie
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 4:42 pm: | |
Courtesy bussing was implimented when the schools were redistricted several years ago. It was provided as just that, a courtesy for all students living more than a mile and a half away from their schools. Bussing is madated for students living two or more miles from school. Marshall, Jefferson, South Mountain and I think Clinton all have courtesy bussing and mandated bussing, as well a SB. Clinton is the school I'm not sure of and I don't know about Tuscan. 103 kids at South Mountain will be affected. Car pools will probably be formed just like in the "olden days". A small inconvenience. The district will save a lot of money by discontinuing this service. |
Mim
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 4:44 pm: | |
S'okay. I expect many people will agree with you, when it comes time to actually wield the cost-cutting knife. I have wondered if it was widely known this service was provided. What's the concensus, folks? |
Spw784
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 5:58 pm: | |
Nursie:
Is the shuttle from Newstead to SM (and vice versa) considered courtesy bussing? Or is it mandated because of the busy streets, lack of sidewalks, and age of the students? I can just see kindergartners walking up S O Ave or Overhill, can't you? |
Nursie
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 6:23 pm: | |
I can't answer that question. But BTW there are 600+ students participating in the elemetary insrumental music program, so I was told today by one of the instructors. |
Sac
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 12:17 pm: | |
Re courtesy busing - this is not mandated, but it is a key element in offering a successful "magnet" type program such as the one at Seth Boyden. I have suggested to the Board of Ed and Administration via some recent letters that they look for ways to handle the busing more economically rather than simply eliminating it (at this point just for certain families.) The existence of the bus service is what has allowed many families to be able to make the decision to transfer their children. If there are not enough children who transfer, the Demonstration School program won't be successful.
It hasn't been very long since there were some very contentious discussions in our community about how to manage the elementary school space problems and associated redistricting issues. Those were settled, at least for now, by the establishment of the Demonstration School program at Seth Boyden, coupled with some redistricting, and it seems to be working. If that program is not successful, we could be looking at some much less desirable redistricting solutions in the future (and maybe even MORE rather than LESS busing to go with them.)
Yes, I am a Seth Boyden parent and yes, my children do ride the bus. Apparently we will still have bus service even after the currently proposed cuts, although we are "right on the line". We will be able to keep our children at SB even if we lose the bus service at some point, but I fear that will not be true for some families and will reduce the number of transfers in the future, which is my biggest concern. Personally, I do not look forward to another "round" of redistricting discussions. For those of you who have moved here recently and missed out, it was right up there with the current reval controversy. |
Sac
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 12:19 pm: | |
Spw784 - I'm not absolutely sure, but I suspect that the Newstead/SM shuttle is also considered "courtesy busing". If safety were the criteria (as opposed to distance), then busing would be mandated for all the Seth Boyden students who have to cross Springfield Avenue. |
Ros
| | Posted on Monday, February 5, 2001 - 2:35 pm: | |
An update-
It appears the Board is seriuosly considering an option that will keep the program, with pullouts occuring only during general music classes(which take place twice a week)I'm assuming no meeting tonight (Monday) so I guess it will be discussed next meeting |
Tom
| | Posted on Monday, February 5, 2001 - 5:08 pm: | |
Unfortunately, the program is still under the "special proposal" column, not in the main budget, and so subject to approvals. I understand that the board of school estimate is where the pressure needs to be applied at this point--Vic, Burt, Ellen, are you listening? |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Monday, February 5, 2001 - 6:13 pm: | |
The old BOE squeeze play is at work! Pick a program which hurts when talk of its elimination comes down. Parents cringe and plead for reinstatement. The heck with the cost! For those of us who live in Maplewood and are anticipating tax increases of $4,000 (me) and more with the revalualtion, we will be closely watching any move by the BOE to raise a DIME. To pay $16,000 in taxes and have to apologize for the schools! |
Kathy
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 6, 2001 - 2:27 pm: | |
My brother always referred to this tactic as the "Washington Monument ploy"--i.e., if the Park Service is told to cut a million dollars from their budget, they say, "OK, we'll have to shut down the Washington Monument."
In the case of the school budget, over 80% of the budget is salaries, so the only way to make meaningful cuts is to eliminate salaries. And class sizes are already huge. And if we have to give the teachers a 4% or 5% raise (to remain even slightly competitive in hiring), and the state says we can only increase our spending by 3%--the mathematics of it boggle the mind.
By the way, because the BOE meeting was cancelled last night, there will be a public session at 7 pm on Wednesday 2/8, before the scheduled budget meeting, for people to address the board on this and other topics.
P.S. MTierney, do you think that you will have to do less apologizing for the schools if you clamp down on their spending? |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 6, 2001 - 8:11 pm: | |
The BOE presently has a budget in the vicinity of $63 million. I would hope that would be a sufficient amount of money to educate 6000 plus students. We're not talking about taking away money - just put a lid on it! I do believe that giving more money mindlessly will not produce better results. |
Melidere
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 7, 2001 - 6:57 pm: | |
Mtierney,
I never understand how you know how much is enough.
How much SHOULD it cost and what is the standard? The good private schools (often subsidized by grants and stuff) seem to think it costs LOTS more, and parents seem to be willing to pay it.
Far Brook School thinks that it costs an average of about 15,000 a year to educate children to the 8th grade level.
Kent Place school thinks if you have to ask you can't afford it.
Newark Academy thinks that something like $17,000 a year is closer to the mark.
It's kinda tough to get these numbers...most of them don't make them easy to find...but you get my point.
How do you KNOW it is time to put a lid on it? Maybe we aren't putting up enough?
The prices of things change. Californians are finding out that sometimes prices go up. Teacher shortages are in crisis proportions at this point and most of the budget is salaries.
I can point to this thing or that thing that we might be able to cut a few cents on...but i can point to plenty of other things that 'good schools' have that we could use a lot more of.
These 'good' schools seem to fall out to an average of something like 7 kids to a class in the elementary schools. What are we up to, 20+?
Just how much further do you go? |
Lisat
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 7, 2001 - 10:32 pm: | |
Melidere,
Actually tuition at private school doesn't even cover the costs of educating a child. These private schools have fund raising drives during the year and they expect parents and/or grandparents to chip in some more. According to the Far Brook paperwork I received, 95% of parents donate an average of $1,500 per year per child on top of the tuition. And I think private school teachers have lower salaries than public school teachers. |
Ucnthndlthtruth
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 7, 2001 - 11:24 pm: | |
Melidere,
Could you direct me to where you got those figures from ?
Thanks |
Spw784
| | Posted on Thursday, February 8, 2001 - 7:56 am: | |
Lisat:
Also, aren't most private schools NOT required to provide all the services (like special ed, ESL, etc) that public schools are required to have? |
Melidere
| | Posted on Thursday, February 8, 2001 - 7:56 am: | |
their websites.
(kent place didn't actually *say* if you have to ask you can't afford it...like many, they just don't publish it.)
And far brook, lisat, will screen candidates till they are only taking the absolutely top-notch students. (assuming you can even measure that at age 5) |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Thursday, February 8, 2001 - 11:37 am: | |
Public schools can never "compete" with private. By their nature, private schools exist to offer more than what can be had at the public level. If that's what we are trying to do, we are doomed to fail. Enough is enough when the demand places real hardships on taxpayers. When seniors are forced to move. When the really well-heeled folks tire of paying for private schools while they are paying higher and higher taxes to support our disappointing system decide to move to a town which has superior public schools. |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page