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Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 98
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 6, 2003 - 11:16 pm: |     |
This past week I was away at a radiant floor heating designers and installers conference out west.
I see now that there were some questions about steam boilers posted that received some interesting replies.
First off, boilers are mechanical, fuel-burning appliances that need to be maintained seasonally in order to work well.
Overwhelmingly, steam boilers in 1 and 2-family homes that are under 500,000 btuh (your boiler is probably in the 100- 200k range) do not require chemical additives as part of a typical seasonal maintenance procedure. In fact, many modern boiler manufacturers, such as Weil-McLain, strongly advise against it. In most, it will void your warranty.
Many of our residential boilers today are assembled using neoprene gaskets as opposed to steel push nipples. While these gaskets have their advantages, such as their inherent resistance to thermal shock, they are easily destroyed by many of the readily available “boiler-cleaning” products at our local plumbing supply houses.
The time-consuming processes of flushing and “skimming” are best to clean steam boilers.
We can not have a discussion about steam boiler cleaning without talking about skimming.
Skimming a boiler is the only way to remove the oils and particles in suspension on the top of the water, which prevent steam from escaping the boiler and entering the distribution piping. They also increase the temperature at which the boiler is physically capable of producing steam. The result is higher fuel bills to the consumer and shortened life span of the appliance.
A word about flushing: Don’t let anyone tell you that taking water out of that lever-handled valve on the side of your boiler is any part of it.
That valve is there for the SOLE purpose of maintaining the device to which it is directly connected, i.e., the low water cut-off. It takes water from the cleanest part of your boiler, which is not the top and not the bottom and sends it through the LWCO, flushing clean its float mechanism. It does absolutely nothing for the boiler itself. I don’t care WHAT your grandfather told you.
If you don’t have that kind of low water cut-off, you have the probe-type. The probe-type LWCO must be disconnected from the boiler and its water-sensing probe descaled at least once per heating season, in some cases twice yearly if your boiler makes hot water for domestic use.
The instructions and precautions to these procedures are in the information packet that should be within arms reach of the boiler at all times. Yes, you can do them yourself, but the book won’t tell you what something that may be going wrong should look like.
When I began answering Maplewood/South Orange resident’s questions about their domestic plumbing and heating issues, I quickly realized the questions were becoming repetitive and so were my answers. I’ve begun to record them in hopes I may find the time to compile a handbook for my customers or those who request a copy. I’m getting close. The Lost Art of Steam Heating is an excellent book and you should have a copy on hand if you enjoy reading about such things. However, it is not geared toward homeowners and contains a great deal of information that simply will not apply to most of us and the systems we use.
Keep warm,
Master Plvmber
Master_Plvmber
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Yossarian
Citizen
Username: Yossarian
Post Number: 22
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 - 8:47 am: | |
Put me on the list for that book when you've got it ready. This is our first winter in our house, and also our first experience with a boiler (we've always had forced hot air in the past).
Our boiler is about 20 years old, but, according to our home inspector and the plumber we had in to install a new hot water heater, it's got years of life left in it.
So far it's doing OK. More than a handful of the radiators in the house don't get hot (or even warm), and that's a concern. But for now at least we have heat.
I was considering getting The Lost Art ... but it seems like it'd be too much detail for me (anyway, I'd rather read Joseph Heller). I just want to know the basics of this large, fire burning machine in my basement. |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3172
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 - 9:10 am: | |
Master Plumber,
If you want sections for your book, read the Attic and pull some stuff from there.
Here is an answer posted by one of the MOL'ers back in October, 2001. It was in response to a discussion on skimming, and was part of a discussion on a water hammer system.
From the Attic:
Name removed,
...Here is what you need to do. You need to look in the owners manual and locate the location of the skimming port for your boiler.
Once you know the size you will need to go to HD or any plumbing store and buy a 6 to 8 inch nipple and some thread dressing for steam (dope to the plumber). If the plumber guy give you any guff, well, give it back to him. (I assume you can take care of yourself in that department, and I assume that you have wrenches back home)
Next, turn off the cutout switch a few hours before you start and make sure the boiler can not fire. A good way to do this is to turn the thermostat up to 80 degrees and see if the burner lights up. If not, Good! Now turn the thermostat back down to 50 degrees.
Let it cool for a couple of hours.
Now if you have an auto fill water feed, turn it off. Use the low water cut off valve drain valve and drain a gallon or so of water out. Dump it. Now use a wrench and remove the plug in the skim port. (right to tight, left to loosen) Now screw in the nipple, no thread dressing is needed or wanted.
Now slowly open the water fill line to the boiler and put a bucket under the nipple. At some point the water will start to drain out of the nipple. You do not want to rush this, slow is the best, and you do not want to over run the drain rate of the nipple. If you do, shut the fill water off and let the flow at the nipple come to a stop. Then turn the water back on slower and watch it skim the surface water off the top of the boiler.
Do this for some time. Some say as long as 2 hours, some say as long as needed. (If you were a plumber it would depend on how you were getting paid) The water that comes out may not look dirty as the oil will be dissolved into the water to some extent.
If you want, do it for say.....and hour and stop. Then we will do it again next week, and the next until we are sure we have it all.
Else, you can put a sample in a pan and go to your stove and bring it to a boil. If it boils like water, you are done. If it boils and starts to foam, you have more to do.
When done, shut off the water fill valve. Remove the nipple. Dress the threads of the plug, lightly, as you do not want to put more gunk back into the boiler, and screw it in. Give is a snug, you do not have to crank it down too hard.
Now fill the boiler to the correct level on the sight glass.
Turn the cutoff switch back on. Go to the thermostat and turn it up to 80 degrees and go check the boiler.
Look to make sure all is working well, and check your plug. As pressure builds, if you see a leak, give it a snug to stop the leak. Watch the sight glass to see if the surging improved. Keep an eye on that plug as the steam heats, the pressure will build. Snug as needed to stop leaks.
When happy, turn the thermostat back to a normal range.
Now live with it a bit and get a feel of how the system is working. Report back.
Also, keep in mind that if you have oil in your system it is up in the pipes now. Over the next weeks it will work its way back to the boiler and you will need to do this again in say a month or so.
The good news is, once out, nothing will put backing except for some yahoo working on it again.
Got questions? I'm not on MOL much on the weekends. I will check from time to time for you. I'm listed in the MOL White Pages. Call, I'm working on my thermostat system this weekend. My wife is taking her Mother shopping at the malls so I will not be in the middle of any honey doo projects. Need a tool, I'll loan you what you need.
;^)>...
Several homeowners have learned to do this event and other for them selves.
Other procedures are in the Attic, take a look.
Enjoy,
George |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1815
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 - 11:37 am: | |
"Now use a wrench and remove the plug in the skim port."
Of course, performing this step might take all day and require drilling out the old plug. After the boiler plugs have been in place for a few years, they can be extremely difficult to remove. |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3174
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 - 12:05 pm: | |
No one ever said working on your own boiler was for the faint of heart!
Ya gota bust a knuckle or two, or call a plumber. |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3179
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 8, 2003 - 12:09 pm: | |
A question sent to me via private methods:
“…Now Master Plumber has me worried about that Colloid stuff. What did you think of his post? Maybe I'll try skimming….”
Master Plumber is a plumber and likely a good one. Many have used him and gladly referrer him. That is great.
I don’t agree with every thing Master Plumber has posted. I think that informed home owners can do a lot for them selves, and in this case I do not think he read the discussion that closely and posted a more general comment.
I will be specific to the discussion. In my opinion, researched, the use of Colloid additives is safe and well used in the industry. Last heating session a long discussion took place on the Master Heating Plumbers website, www.heatinghelp.com. The consensus was that the proper use of colloids was quite safe and common.
Colloid products cause a mild chemical process that allows dissolved or trace elements in your boiler water to bind and gain weight. Given that single pipe steam heating systems are open to the atmosphere, rust, oils and other things end up in the water.
Colloids will allow these things (junk) to bind, gain weight and settle to the bottom of your boiler and will flush the particulates out when you do your weekly blow down of your low water switch assembly.
That can’t be a bad thing.
If you are handy and want to add the additive to your system, take your boiler model number to Palmer Plumbing and they will sell you the correct product for your boiler. Follow the directions, ask questions of Palmer or here and have a good time. I’m sure that others including Master Plumber will continue to provide free advise to those willing.
I agree that boiler manufactures disagree with the use of colloids and some will void warranties. The same is true of your new car. If you change your own oil and use a Fram oil filter, Toyota will void the warranty. Just a little over protective and class action law suites correct that problem from time to time.
Master Plumber talked of the use of cleaners. I never suggested that in my post. But, since the subject is up, they can be used, if you are handy and willing, and the product must be matched to your boiler to avoid the damage to gaskets and what not as Master Plumber pointed out. Nothing to be afraid of, just one the thing to watch for, (Example, never put transmission fluid into the engine of your car.) Same problem. Wrong product and it will eat your engine apart.
Skimming, perhaps the easiest thing that can be done and solves the most of the problems. Easy if your boiler was setup with a skimming port accessible, very hard if you have to pipe one in. Last year, long discussions took place on MOL on skimming and skim ports. I had to install one on my boiler. Removing the plug to install the nipple setup was a royal pain in the behind and I risked cracking the cast iron assembly. (That is why I waited until the summer to do it.) But if you have a port, skimming is very easy to do and should take a long time.
Anyway, just my opinion. If you are not interested, don’t have the tools, are not handy and if you don’t want to be bothered, call a professional plumber.
I use Ken Secor 732 388-1794 when I do not want to work with the 3 inch iron. Master Plumber is likely a good guy as well.
Enjoy,
George
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chocoholic
Citizen
Username: Shrink
Post Number: 33
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 8, 2003 - 12:32 pm: | |
I had my 70 year old boiler serviced when I moved into my new home this past April. The plumber drained it and did the annual maintence thing then. Do I nedd to get the plumber to come out again now since we are firing the boiler up again? |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3180
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 8, 2003 - 12:55 pm: | |
In my opinion, only if it leaks, does not fire, or fails to work.
You paid your dues.
If you see a minor problem, post a question, odds are you and resolve it your self.
If not then call a plumber. |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 99
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 8, 2003 - 6:13 pm: | |
I agree. If it was serviced in April you should be in good shape.
Master_Plvmber
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