| Author |
Message |
    
xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 276
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 8:35 pm: |     |
Schug is known for its Burgundian-style pinot noirs, earthier and less oaky than most Sonoma pinots. They make 2 appellation pinots, Sonoma County (around $16 at WLibrary) and Carneros (around $20), and a couple of reserve pinots.
However, I was in their tasting room 3 weeks ago, and to my surprise I found their reserve merlot was their best wine. Dense like a good Pomerol, with tremendous nose. 2000 vintage sells for around $35. Amandakitty, you know there's nothing like a Merlot for the un-winos! |
xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 277
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 8:39 pm: | |
Hank: I agree good pinot is hard to find. What pinots do you have in your cellar (or basement)? Also, do you have any recommendation for Piedmont wines? I'm just starting to investigate Barolos and Barbarescos, but short of spending serious money, I can't get a good handle on them. |
Joseph Moryl
Citizen
Username: Jemoryl
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 11:21 pm: | |
A few more suggestions.....
If you want to go French there are many possibilities in the price range that you mention - it would be nice to know what kind of wines the recipient prefers. In general you could get some very fine wines from the Loire (look for Louis/Dressner Imports) or Alsace (both best for whites) or Rhone and Languedoc (better for reds, IMO). Because many of the more interesting producers are smallish it is hard to make specific recommendations. As others have mentioned, Wine Library or Gary's have great stocks and can probably make intellegent suggestions. Prices are somewhat high unless the particular wine is on sale. If you are ever in lower Manhattan then stop into Chambers St. Wines - they have a very carefully selected lineup. The champagne idea is a good one - in recent years there has been an increase in the number of small producer champagnes (e.g. not from the big houses like Moet or Veuve Cliquot) of great character. Many of these are imported thru Terry Theise - look for this name on the label.
The 2000 vintage in Bordeaux produced a lot of good wine. While the prices of classified growths have shot up there are still a lot of good bargains amongst the fringes (Medoc, etc.) in a year like 2000. I personally love Burgundy (red, made from Pinot Noir) and believe you can pick up a nice bottle in your price range. But I don't suggest trying - it is too much of a crap shoot unless you know how a particular wine is drinking.
It is estimated that about 1-5% of wines are ruined due to an inherent problem with cork (a musty smell/flat taste due to a chemical known as TCA). As a result there is a movement towards alternate closures - including screw caps - which is especially strong in NZ and Australia.
To those that suggested Frei Brothers or Anapaumu (sp?) - do you know these are stealth brands produced by Gallo? While some of these are ok wines, the big producers behind them really want to give you the impression that you are buying some sort of artesanal product, not something made by agribusiness. The shops in the Total Wine chain (one in Essex Green) are full of these sorts of mediocre wines. |
kws
Citizen
Username: Kws
Post Number: 71
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 11:47 pm: | |
The first thing I would do is call the restaurant and ask to speak to the chef...
I am sure he/she would have some good suggestions for specific wines that would accompany their food nicely. |
mommydee
Citizen
Username: Mommydee
Post Number: 62
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 9:58 am: | |
For your price range here are a few suggestions. We are white wine drinkers and love the following
Louis Jadot Pouilly Fuisse(Spelt wrong possibly), Santa Marguerita Pinot Grigio and Simi Chardonnay. |
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 809
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 4:36 pm: | |
xavier,
I used to work some tastings for a woman who first became prominent with the Italian Wine Council and had an appreciation for Italian reds at that time but not the money. I still find Italian reds to have a really distinct taste that is not appealing to some people who are used to the brighter, jammier fruit of many reds today. I used to find Vietti offered as good a combination of price to quality as most any producer from the Piemonte, but not sure how they are lately. At one time, I was able to buy some Barolos with age at Sparrow Wines in Hoboken for reasonably good prices..I still have a couple of 82's or 85's. The problem was they started to increase too much in price and my tastes were elsewhere (red zins and Rhone reds). I havent been to Sparrow in at least five years, but I was also able to buy Barolos and Rhones and CA cabs and riojas there with age (in the case of the riojas, more age than the ones that are usually held back and aged at the winery).
With French burgundies, I also got tired of paying for what I used to refer to as the Van Morrison of wines (Van could put on a sublime performance or an awfully flat one...as could many burgundies..all for a healthy ticket price). I also was invited a few years ago by a friend who is a serious collector to a tasting at Sotheby's of 1988 burgundies conducted by Clive Coates. I realized full well at the time that seriously collecting burgundies could be heart-breaking and bank-breaking. Randall Graham started Bonny Doon with the intention of being a major pinot noir producer and I think he actually used the phrase having his heart broken before he became a Rhone Ranger.
So my pinots/burgundies are limited to what deals/sales I see along the way. I prefer Central Coast/Santa Barbara to Napa pinots, which get too jammy sometimes, although I have always found Sainstbury to be a safe bet. I have enjoyed alot of the Oregon offerings, but they too got priced through the roof. A few years back, Napa Ridge made a real good quaffing pinot for $6 a bottle...I used to buy it by the 15 bottle case..not sure what the quality of it is any longer but I know theyve expanded their production to other varietals. I'm getting wistful now because autumn is a good pinot noir time of year. I may have to check back in with Armando at Sparrow to see if he still sells older releases (I used to stock up on Chappelet Signature cabs for great prices there too). Someone in the wine business once swore about a wine shop in Northern NJ as being the tops in the metro area for Italian reds but I cant think of the name offhand..if I remember I will let you know. For burgundies, theres always the Burgundy Wine Company in the city. I also had a conversation one night with a manager of Stirling Wine Shop who claimed to do a big business in Italian reds but havent been to the shop yet. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5477
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 4:52 pm: | |
Italian Wine Merchant on E. 16th off of Union Square is a good place to buy Italian wines, too. |
jro
Citizen
Username: Jro
Post Number: 20
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 5:12 pm: | |
I think the perfect bottle to proudly hand over to any waiter could be 2000 Domaine Clavel Copa Santa. The question is, how intense do they like their wine? This beauty from the Languedoc is a Syrah explosion with small amounts of Mourvedre and Grenache Noir (three grapes common to that region in France). The color is a deep dark purple with aromas of wild cherry, ripe plums, dark chocolate and spice. A steal at $16.99, and the perfect wine match with beef, stews and braises. If I sound a little too salesy, I must admit that I am the Wine Director of a Wine Shop in Manhattan called PJ Wine, and that wine is one of my personal favorites. I'm such an evangelist for this wine, I'll personally deliver a bottle to your doorstep on my way home! |
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 812
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 5:21 pm: | |
sign me up...thats a great price for even the lesser known but excellent Languedoc wines that arent as inexpensive as they were five years ago. jro..wasnt that wine in the single digits or maybe lower teens just a few years ago or was it another Clavel wine? |
xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 284
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 5:50 pm: | |
Hank: I believe Domaine Clavel makes a cheaper blend that sells for around $8. I agree that some of the best values, not only from France but from around the world, right now are from Languedoc, What I've been discovering in the last 5 years or so is that Labguedoc wines' general profile has turned from rustic, earthy to cleaner, more fruit-driven, which in my book is not necessarily a good thing. But I guess that's the story all over, isn't it?
Thanks for the tip about Vietti. I'll keep an eye for it. At my end, Barolos I've been impressed with are 97 Ceretto Barolo Zonchera (drinking beautifully now, though I suspect it'll taste completely different in 10 years) and 97 Manzone Barolo Gramolere (a bit closed now but will open up in a couple of years). I bought both of them at sales at Cortlandt Wines.
Jro: PJ has a nice selection and fair prices. You're one lucky person. Can you let me know if you ever plan to quit your job?
|
mck
Citizen
Username: Mck
Post Number: 583
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 7:14 pm: | |
Wow. I am printing out this thread for future reference.
As I sit here drinking my crappy $9 Pinot Noir I humbly ask of you worldly ones: where is the Wine Library? |
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 814
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 7:46 pm: | |
if you like your crappy $9 pinot noir, then its perfectly fine and probably not crappy (I mentioned the $6 pinot I used to buy by the case and my favorite red for anyday drinking is still around $6 a bottle..Parallel 45 cote du rhone)...a good wine is one you enjoy drinking (I just cant make an exception for white zinfandel however). The Wine Library is on the corner of Millburn Ave. and Morris Ave., kind of near Emack and Bolio's or whatever its called now. |
jro
Citizen
Username: Jro
Post Number: 21
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 7:53 pm: | |
Wine Library? Never heard of em... |
jro
Citizen
Username: Jro
Post Number: 22
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 8:09 pm: | |
There are actually 3 in the Domaine Clavel line, the Copa Santa (75 to 125 yr. old Syrah vines) being the creme de la creme. The entry level is Mas de Clavel, a 50/50 blend of young vine Grenache/Syrah, a nice easy drinking CDR style. $6.99 btl. The 2nd wine in the line is called Les Garrigues (80% 40 to 60 yr. old Syrah with splashes of Grenache and Mauvedre)$9.99, and has a pronounced degree of richness over and above the Mas de Clavel. Sees more time in barrel too.
Xav - not anytime soon sorry. I'm having too much fun... |
ml1
Citizen
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 1327
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 8:15 pm: | |
Hank,
where are you buying the Parallel 45 for $6? |
jro
Citizen
Username: Jro
Post Number: 23
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 8:26 pm: | |
We've also been having lots of fun with the '01 Languedoc wines that Bobby Kacher imports ie. Mas de Guiot, Mas Carlot, Grande and Petite Cassagne, Cantarelles etc., all great bangs for the buck. |
jro
Citizen
Username: Jro
Post Number: 24
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 8:33 pm: | |
Jaboulet 'Parrallel 45'
$6.74 btl., on a case of 12, only at PJ Wine. http://www.pjwine.com
Sorry, I couldn't resist... |
davidbuckley
Citizen
Username: Davidbuckley
Post Number: 144
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 9:54 pm: | |
You guys and gals want a yummy reasonable pinot?
Try Castle Rock, Napa, CA--the 2001 is delicious! and about $12, I have a bottle of the 2002 but have not yet tried it--will report.
'01 is Russian River/Carneros, 14 mos. in french oak; '02 is Russian River, 9 mos. in same, acc. to labels, paid $11 after case discount of 23% at one of my favorite wine places for finds around here--Shoppers on 22 near Costco in Union. Offering this 23% on Saturdays for mixed cases non-sale wines.
I've had "snazzy" CA pinots and french burgundies (oxymoron, no?) that were 2 x the price and 1/2 as good.
Gary's in MADISON, not Chatham is really nice and expanding--ask for Richie and say I sent you.
Wine Library is fine only if you sort of know what you're doing--I sort of do. When I know more than the salespeople, we're all in trouble. I find that they really don't want to be too helpful unless you're going to their special little room to buy first growths/CA cult wines, i.e. big spenders get cosseted, others not--at Gary's you can get steered to yummy reasonable wine, kind of what it's all about for us "reg'lar folks", no?
Wherever you go, if you have space, thirst and some $, buy by case to make your quaffing cheaper...
Drink well, all.
David Buckley |
davidbuckley
Citizen
Username: Davidbuckley
Post Number: 145
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 10:28 pm: | |
Ok, ok, I opened the 2002 Castle Rock pinot...
Very good. Not as good as the 2001 but still waaay worth buying 1/2 or a case if room, thirst and $ permit.
Pinot noir, regardless of origin, is hard to find yummy and reasonable. Lord knows I can't afford big deal burgundies (nor am I willing to risk the big $ and get a wine I do not enjoy as much as this one for $11)
BTW, try some Chateauneuf du papes (red and white, if you can find whites period and that aren't squillions) to really have fun--to me much more likely (in red) to find something yummy and reasonable than in Burgundy.
Hey, anyone interested in doing some each-bring-a-bottle tastings (or should I say "drinkings"?) Say, set a price and region or grape and have fun with it...?
Good wine lubes life...
Drink well, all.
David Buckley |
ml1
Citizen
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 1328
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 12:24 am: | |
Another wine I like for "everyday" is Laurel Glen "Reds," which goes for $6-8. It's a blend of Zinfandel, Syrah, Petite Sirah, Grenache and Barbera -- a good, solid, red table wine
and you can't beat the wacky cartoons on the cork |
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 815
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 7:52 am: | |
ml1,
I bought a bunch of P45 in August maybe at Wine Library (could have been earlier in the summer) for $6.12 a bottle..so not actually $6 but pretty close. And careful, some Soapboxers might equate your liking for "Reds" with political leanings. |
sullymw
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 195
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 9:32 am: | |
I like the StoneStreet Chardonnay (California). Like butta. About $24 at Wine Library |
xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 285
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 10:42 am: | |
DavidB and other posters. It sounds we have enough winos here on MOL to start a wino group and do monthly tastings. I would be more than happy to host the first one. |
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 474
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 10:59 am: | |
I'm in... for the sake of the wine of course. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5484
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 12:18 pm: | |
and the scientific method of empirical proof. |
Joseph Moryl
Citizen
Username: Jemoryl
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 12:42 pm: | |
In response to Xavier: I'm a new poster here (lurked for awhile) but would be very interested in getting together with M-SO types for some non-virtual wine tasting. Count me in. |
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 816
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 12:49 pm: | |
blind tasting...concealing the labels on the bottles of wine you are tasting from
double blind tasting...pouring the wine out of sight of the taster(s) so they do not know which bottle the wine came from
triple MOL blind tasting...obscuring the label, the bottle the wine was poured from and one's identity |
ml1
Citizen
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 1329
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 2:03 pm: | |
Hank,
I've already been called a "leftist radical," by some (apparently serious) MOLers. So I guess my taste for "Reds" wouldn't surprise them.
how do I get myself invited to the inaugural MOL wine tasting event? |
xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 286
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 2:04 pm: | |
Ok, I'll provide the venue and brown bags. Everyone can bring a bottle and a mask. We'll all put bags on the bottles and masks on our mugs before proceeding to drinking.
Seriously, folks interested in getting together can email me at kimjx@nytimes.com. Perhaps we can meet every month or two, focussing on wines of certain types and price range, chosen by the host. For the first tasting, I'll provide the munches and brown bags.
|
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 817
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 2:11 pm: | |
Count me in!
 |
eliz
Citizen
Username: Eliz
Post Number: 622
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 8:51 pm: | |
Ok all you serious winos ... I went to a wonderful restaurant in L.A. this week called A.O.C. (you'll recognize the initials) with great, different wines by the glass or flight. I tried a lovely white called Malvasia Bianca by Amethyst out of Monterey County. I'm not really familiar with Ital-Cal wines and haven't had much luck on the web, I emailed Wine Library but they haven't replied. I want to find out if it's available here and what it costs. It was a delicious wine that would be wonderful for summer/pre-dinner and completely different from what I'm used to drinking.
p.s I'm glad to see all this chat about Pinot Noirs which I love. I'm pretty loyal to Argyle but I wish the prices of some these Oregon wines were more reasonable. |
zen
Citizen
Username: Zen
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 10:12 pm: | |
Wine Bars are a great way to explore different producers takes on a varietal - and cheaper than taking a flyer on an unknown quality wine... I went to Morrel's in NYC (the new one at 20th + Bway), and had some fantastic wines. Incredible selection.
Eliz - My wife is a HUGE fan of Malvasia Bianca - Boony Doon makes a decent one (can't remember the name, but it might be Ca' Del Sol). Not too expensive.
How could anyone not be a Pinot Noir fan? I believe it to be the grape which best expresses the locale (terrior) of the wine, and the finesse of the grower, vintner. Although I have been lucky enough to try some great Burgandies, I generally stick to Oregon and CA. It is sad to see the Wine Library mark up prices 40% on some of the Oregon wines over the past few years. I have been going to the Total Wine store on 22, their prices seem to be slightly less, and they have a slightly wider selection (until the WL addition is finished). Unfortunately their Pinot Noir section is weak.
|
r2boy
Citizen
Username: R2boy
Post Number: 112
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 5:56 am: | |
This Tuesday night at 7pm Cent'anni is having "The Ultimate Wine Tasting Dinner" featuring a five course dinner matched with wines from the most prestigious vineyards of Vietti of Piedmont-Italy. The guest speaker is Luca Currado/Winemaker. Should be a wonderful evening...can't wait... |
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 818
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 9:05 am: | |
I figured zen would have found this thread sooner or later..I know him to be a very knowledgeable source on the subject.
The Bonny Doon line of Italian varietals is called Ca' del Solo. There is also a cal-italia website with a list of wineries making Italian varietals. Except for some of the Bonny Doon wines, I havent tasted most of these. I do remember tasting Pepi and Atlas Peak Italian varietals against similar wines produced in Italy and they did not fare well at that time (a number of years ago). They tasted...Californian.
For a twist on the Italian-Californian thing, try primitivo from Italy. For many years, CA staked claims to zinfandel as being the one true American grape, but it seems it is related to or comes from the same grape that is primitivo in Italy.
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jro
Citizen
Username: Jro
Post Number: 25
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 3:09 pm: | |
If anyone is interested, my wineshop, PJ's is hosting a Grand Tasting down at the Puck Building (on Houston and Lafayette) on Monday November 17th from 6:30 to 10:30pm. Over 60 wine, food and spirits tables will be on hand, (and over 500 wines to sample!) I've attached a link for all the finer details. I guarantee plenty of Pinot Noir for every palate...
http://www.pjwine.com/html/grandtasting03.html |
stefano
Citizen
Username: Stefano
Post Number: 375
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 3:14 pm: | |
Is there a nearby medical facility in case we try all 500?
dr stefano |
Cubeless
Citizen
Username: Cubey
Post Number: 8
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 3:17 pm: | |
I believe PJ's in NYC carries the Malvasia Bianca by Amethyst...$15.00
www.pjwine.com
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xavier67
Citizen
Username: Xavier67
Post Number: 290
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 4:07 pm: | |
To all those who emailed me re: starting a wine group in Maplewood/SO, I'll contact you next week about possible time, theme, etc.
For those who are interested, please PL or email me (kimjx@nytimes.com) and I'll add your name to the list. Have a great weekend! |
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