| Author | Message | ||
     Lseltzer |
I also want to know who they are and I don't want to have to subscribe to their list in order to find out, thereby giving them the excuse to say that they represent my point of view. | ||
| Overtaxdalready |
Unlike another poster on another thread on this board, I'm not going to post an individual's name here. I don't know any of the Fairtax leaders personally. I have seen them make presentations at the Town Hall meetings and I have seen their names on emails I have received from them. My "defense" of them was merely to point out that they have not been hiding behind an anonymous name. If you want to find out who they are send an email to Fairtax01@aol.com and ask for a copy of the letter they sent to the TC on 1/30. Their names are on it. | ||
| Rheims |
OTA I appreciate your discretion, and thanks for the suggestion. I just wonder why Fairtax leaves it up to people like you to defend them? | ||
| Mem |
Rheims - Fairtax has more important things to do than to defend themselves from anonymous posters on this board. I am part of it, since my house is way over assessed and mistakes have been made as well, but I'm certainly not going to give you my name. The group is trying to get more answers and find solutions to what has amounted to a financial crises for many families. | ||
| Rheims |
MEM I hope you're not in charge of p.r. for Fairtax. Your comment is a perfect example of the group's arrogance. First, a correction. When I started this string, I was under the mistaken impression that Fairtax (aka Citizen) was a single person. Now I know Fairtax is simply a handle for the a group. But that only revises, it doesn't answer, my question. If they are a group, then who founded it and who leads them? I don't care about the names of you or anyone else who's in the group. I care about who speaks for the group and, by implication, for me. Yes, I could send them an e-mail requesting the letter with their names appended. I could join the group surreptitiously and get their e-mail list. I could trace back stories heard at TC meetings to stories related on the message boards. I could probably trace a name back from the group's e-mail address. It wouldn't be too hard, but that's not the point of my asking. I want to know why the leaders of Fairtax won't THEMSELVES answer me here for all to see. Why did they deliberately strip the names off their letter here? How can they hold themselves up as the leaders of a populist group, but not hold themselves answerable to the populous which they would imply is behind them? Are they afraid of being attacked in the same way they've attacked the TC? I don't see what's so hard about this, and I find the resistance to my question supportive of my reasons for asking it. You folks in Fairtax, why don't you send your organizers a note and tell them to get on the board and join the conversation. | ||
| Lseltzer |
There's definitely something fishy going on here. They claimed that they put their names on the letter to the News Record (yet to be seen), but thye refuse to put the same names on the letter they post here? What's the point? | ||
| Mem |
Reams, No I am not in charge of PR for Fairtax, but thanks for the compliment. Why are you so afraid of this group? They have a right to contest the tax hike, especially if it may be in error. That's the whole point of Fairtax. I mean, this is America, isn't it? | ||
| Rheims |
Mem I'm not afraid of the group, and my initial message on this string indicated clearly that I support fully its right to protest the revalution. As Ben Franklin put it, "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend unto death your right to say it." That said, I don't appreciate arrogance. I don't appreciate their presumption. And I find their leaders' reluctance to come forward strange. I find it strange as well that you, a "part" of the group, also distance yourself from Fairtax by referring to the group as "they" rather than including yourself by referring to the group as "we." Is it possible you are uncomfortable with the association, with the request that their leaders take off their masks and so perhaps face some public accountability? Do you want to reap the benefits of Fairtax while avoiding any social repercussions? | ||
| Mem |
Thanks for the laugh. I am the last person to care about "social repercussions". But you're right, I guess I should have referred to "they" as "us" since I am on the mailing list. Now, if you want to know who "we" REALLY are, this is from a Fairtax communication I received today: "We are a group of concerned Maplewood citizens who want a revaluation that is fair and accurate for all. We are not affiliated with any political party, nor are we against paying taxes. We are for fairness and for everyone paying a fair share." Pretty shady, huh? Jeeeez. | ||
| Njjoseph |
Then I, too, fit the bill. However, I feel that the reval should be certified and individuals should take the responsibility to correct their own valuations. I wouldn't leave something so important in the hands of another. | ||
| Willfalaise1 |
In the discusssion about who has been a better provider of information, the TC or Fairtax, I think many have forgotten about the large number of residents who received their original appraisals back in October, before Fairtax even existed. From reading the posts on this board from Mayor Ryan and from watching the TC meetings on TV we were aware of the following: That the first letter we received from Certified was not the final assessment. That we had a right to appeal the amount in the first letter if we disagreed with it. And that if, after receiving a revised letter, we still felt the valuation was unfair we would be able to appeal to the county. So, we received our letter in October, felt the number was too high, called the number indicated on the letter, and met with Certified in November. We knew to do this because Mayor Ryan had posted these procedures on this board and discussed them at TC meetings. In contrast, my first introduction to the Fair Tax Committee was at the January 16th town meeting. Since it's been said earlier that Fairtax has been open about their identities in articles in the NY Times, Star-ledger, etc. I went back to the Times 1/17 coverage of that meeting to refresh my memory: At one point in the meeting the crowd began chanting, "recall, recall," and a speaker, ____, an officer of the newly formed Maplewood Fair Taxation Committee, said there was a move afoot to recall the five-member committee and institute a class action suit against a property tax reassessment. Asking the committee to work with taxpayers, Mr. ___ said: "Don't force the hands of the citizens. Reject and redo the revaluation." It seems to me that from the TC we have received instructive information to help deal with the reval, again I knew how to handle our assessment back in October. I understand that Fairtax has also provided information as well as moral support to residents faced with a high tax increase. But I have also heard misinformation and threats coming from their leadership. Since they have not come forward to say otherwise, I have to assume that overturning the reval, recalling elected officials, and suing the town are still on their agenda. I would like to ask Mayor DeLuca, respectfully, to decline Fairtax's recent offer to work with them to resolve the reval issue. I feel that their involvement in this process, beyond the open town hall meeting format, would come at the expense of residents who do not share their views. | ||
| Rheims |
Mem I haven't accused Fairtax of being a shady organization. I'm accusing their leaders of being overly secretive on the message board. I'm not concerned with their goals, just with the presumption that they speak for me. I'm not even concerned with their leadership's political affiliations, although I'd bet some might be. I just want to know from them who they are. A second-hand communication outlining the group's goals doesn't REALLY say much. | ||
| Rheims |
WF1 Very good argument. | ||
| Mem |
Rheims - Why don't you just email Fairtax with your questions directly? If you are happy with your taxes, then you don't need to be part of it. I understand that Fairtax is comprised of citizens whose taxes went up drastically, as did mine. | ||
| Tracks |
It seems like the reval was well advertised before fairtax. There were meetings (which very few members of the public showed up), the News-Record did an article, and various other communicatations. People only complained when they did not like the results. Fairtax is not interested in "Fair Tax", but in a reduction in their taxes. If they really wanted a fairer tax, then they would be petitioning Essex County and Trenton to put an end to the stupid property tax system. | ||
| Ffof |
Willfalaise1- Gee weren't you on the ball! (We don't have cable, so we weren't that lucky). Anyhow,The TC may have let you know that you could appeal your assessment and you obviously thought yours was too high and you did. Fine. What the TC never let on to anyone was what would the tax rate be so we could get a handle on the tax part of the equation. The assessment in and of itself told you nothing. And ps. You got your letter in October - lots of time to consider what that CV letter said. In fact, you said you got your meeting in November. Well I, and many others, got their letters on Dec 8. This my friend was a distinct disadvantage. | ||
| Lseltzer |
Ffof: The tax rate, actually an estimate of the tax rate, has been well-known for months. I know I knew it when I got my letter in November. I believe it was 2.66 until the adjustments. If you didn't know it you just weren't paying attention. | ||
| Overtaxdalready |
Where was the rate published? If it was "well-known for months" why wasn't it included in the reval letters that went out in December? | ||
| Flugermongers |
LSeltzer: On Jan. 2nd at the TC meeting, the lawyer(?name),Jerry Ryan and Vic DeLuca said they "nobody knows" the tax rate when they were asked directly by speakers. It wasn't until hours later with overwhelming public pressure that they conceeded it was 2.66% | ||
| Eliz |
The 2.66 number has been bandied about on this board for months - never as set in stone but as a guide... |
