| Author | Message | ||
     Townie |
Euclidean, You're right, and thensome. Actually, there is an organization called New Jersey Policy Perspective which is trying to build support for changes in the property tax system. I'm not sure of all what they do or believe, but you might check out this link: http://www.njpp.org/proptax.html | ||
| Melidere |
D, i really don't see the need for the deletion, either, but ultimately this place is private and is jamie and dave's responsibility. That responsibility has hugely increased in the last couple of months. I'm sure there will be overkill at times, particularly if we aren't somewhat self-policing. don't take it to heart. | ||
| Rheims |
Lydia The reason I won't join the FairTax mailing list is because, as I believe Townie stated above, I don't want you to then count me, whether by name or anonymously, among your supporters. If you want to provide pure information to everyone, supporter or not, why not post your agenda and ideas here like the TC does? | ||
| Ffof |
Rheims- This board is hardly read by a majority of taxpayers in Maplewood. Of 22,000 residents there are some 1,100 folks registered to actually post and how many are from South Orange? Half? Just look at the new voting "box" on the message board. One hundred people have responded. Maybe Fairtax will start posting here, but don't think for a second that it's reaching more people than are actually on their e-mail list. The TC likes to post here, but only us computer wonks are actually reading it! | ||
| Bix |
I must say I was having fun the thread with Townie vs. Fairtax01. Dave shut it down. Man, just when it was heating up. A good old fashioned melodrama unfolding before our eyes. This is a message for Townie: Era uoy ohw erac ro aedi on evah I. For Fairtax01: Do Urban Roads Allow New Diesels? Not between the years of '62 and '98. Ahhhhh the Great Bix has spoken. | ||
| Dave |
I would think it's more effective to use your time here addressing most people at once. To the point, take a look at January's statistics for the message board: Jan stats | ||
| Rheims |
Ffof You're wrong. How many people read this board and haven't registered? How many people (unlike myself) have no interest in polls? If so many citizens from South Orange are participating here why is the SO specific section so puny? And is 5% of the populous, a percentage in line with that which comes out for BOE elections and the like, not big enough for you? Fairtax speaks for perhaps 500 families. Are they any more representative? I don't think so--although Lydia and her ilk and apologists like yourself would have me believe that. | ||
| Ffof |
Whoa - Rheims -so angry at the end of that post! "her ilk" and "apologists like yourself"?! Let's ask Dave - Dave is it possible to know how many people read the board but don't post? And how many read and don't vote?!! And, no Rheims, 5%of the populous is not big enough for me. And you miss the point about Fairtax' 500 families. The point is that it's a LARGE number (1000 adults?) and this board carries on discussions with a SMALL handful. And even if many tune in to just read, it's STILL a small number - hardly a place with much advertising REACH although the FREQUENCY is high enough! | ||
| Rheims |
Ffof Sorry to sound angry; not my intent. Perhaps ilk wasn't the best word. I would question whether they actually represent 500 families. Is that just the number of people on their e-mail list? Good question to Dave. My question to you is, What would you consider an acceptable percentage? Jews make up 6% of the American population, plenty of minorities have smaller numbers; should they not be specifically addressed by our politicians? Hardly. Politicians go town to town meeting with the smallest of groups trying to get their message out. Similarly, why shouldn't FairTax address the people on this board, who have certainly shown an interest in discussing the issue? Why would any grassroots group not try to gather in everyone they can to swell their numbers? | ||
| Willfalaise1 |
Townie, I read that last exchange of yours on the letter thread last night and thought, oh no, Townie's come unhinged. But this morning I went back and re-read the posts, and the reference you're talking about is clear as a bell if you know the neighborhood and folks who live there. A while back I gave the Fairtax people credit for passing along information and offering moral support to neighbors facing increases. But now they're personally attacking neighbors, either because of their views on this issue or the current assessment of their home. How can they claim to represent the community or any part of it? | ||
| Dave |
I vaguely remember some article about the ratio of participants to readers (lurkers) ranging somewhere around 5:1 on your average message board, but I don't remember the source. Sounds about right, though. There are people from Ireland, Japan, Russia, Finland and Canada dropping by, as well. | ||
| Melidere |
Thanks for posting that Will. | ||
| Dave |
This is the case. And I have warned FairTax to stop or lose posting privileges. That's not an appropriate use of this message board. | ||
| Jem |
Dave, I notice you've put up a new poll asking how long we've lived here. Going along with your recent post observing that people from places other than M/SO read this board, do you think it might make sense to add "I don't live here" to the choices? Just a thought. | ||
| Ffof |
Thanks Dave. And, Rheims, I don't know the answer. Maybe because Fairtax has no central office and it's just a bunch of people on a mailing list and it's not really that organized! You know, I saw Fairtax down in town on Saturday (not the "poster" but a group of people with a sign that said "fairtax"). I think I saw Kevin Friel and I didn't recognize the others. It seems like it would be helpful to board posters if they came on here more often. But, maybe they don't read the board! | ||
| Fairtax01 |
Rheims - I don't think we represent 500 families - at least part of the e-mail list must be there for curiousity and I'm certain some people got their reductions and could care less about the process. I asked the list last week who was still interested in the reval details and 80% replied that they wanted more info. If I put the info we send to our mailing list on this board, would that be appropriate? I'd be happy to. I'm still a beginner in transferring from one file to another, so I may need some step-by-step instructions. The last two e-mails I sent to the list were outlines on how to file your appeal with the assessors office. I got a lot of thank-yous and I think that even though it's readily available info (supplied at the last TC meeting by the TC forinstance) Sometimes it helps to have info redistributed and put into plain English. (Now please don't jump on me for that - sometimes I think "official" communications are too wordy and scare people off from what may be a simple process) I was at the Town Hall this morning trying to figure out how to file my assessment appeal. I don't know which comps to use and I wish I knew more about the assumptions used which affect dwelling values so I know what comps carry weight. Am I comparing myself to identical homes in land or house? Both? Neither? By the way, who did I run into who helped me look up my comps? Jerry Ryan - so thank you Jerry. I don't know that Jerry knows any more about which comps I should be using than I do - but I believe that the TC wants to help. Did I agree with the way the TC handled this in the beginning? No. Do I think we still have a way to go? Yes. But people can have different opinions and still want to help each other out. Dave, thanks for the stats on this board - I am impressed by how many hits you get. (I should remember to check my spelling regularly). | ||
| Rheims |
I think putting the info sent to the FairTax list would be very much appreciated. By myself, for one. Thanks. | ||
| Fairtax01 |
Rheims, how do I do that? Technically, how do i transfer and e-mail to the board? I'm going to try to cut and paste. here goes: Hello Everyone; 2/4/2001 - new websites at the bottom of this page! I want to remind everyone(again - you have 10 days until the deadline) to contest your assessment with the tax assessor if you think that your assessment is still inaccurate. Everyone must have a copy of your property card from Certified Valuations - you should have your property card no matter what you think of your reval - check it for errors. To receive your property card: send Certified V. a stamped and self-addressed envelope with your request and your Lot and block number. The address is: Certified Valuations 447 Route 10 Suite 8 Randolph, NJ 07869 attn: Diana. The Township has an extension to file their assessments with Essex County; the new filing deadline is Feb. 26th. This extension means that property owners who still believe that errors were made on their assessments can have a review with the Maplewood Tax assessor. The Township is hiring additional Tax assessors to review requests from homeowners who still want to have their property reviewed. Even if you've had your meeting with Certified and have received a new assessment you have this opportunity to have the assessor re-review your property. You must send a letter or complete an Assessment Review Form - assessment review forms are available at the Municipal Building (town hall 574 Valley St.) or at any of the town libraries. If you send a letter you must include the following information: 1. Name and address of property owner 2. Address of property 3. Block# and lot # of property 4. Day and evening telephone numbers 5. Reason why you feel there is an error in your most recent assessment. 6. All supporting documentation (re. #5) Supporting documentation would include: Real estate "comparables" (prices that houses in your neighborhood have sold for in the last 3 years - obtain these from a Realtor, most Realtors are more than happy to supply you with them).What you recently paid for your house in the last 3 years if it doesn't jibe with your assessed value. Inspection reports that demonstrate deterioration of the house -- i.e. leaky roof, flooding basement, unusable bathrooms, etc.. Contractor estimates that reflect the cost of fixing roofs, basements, land deterioration, and so on. Photographs are very important and are one of the most under-utilized tools for property tax appeals. Stick to the facts and do not get personal or insulting. You will not win an argument. The Township must receive your assessment review form or letter by Wednesday Feb. 14th. Send it by Certified mail with a return receipt -- and keep a copy for yourself. The annual assessment notice will be mailed out around March 1st instead of Feb. 1st. Good luck! Sincerely, Lydia Lacey/FairTax Useful Websites: NJ Property Tax Authority www.njpta.com New Jersey Online - New Homes www.nj.com/newhomes Garden State Multiple Listing Service www.gsmls.com Search for NJ Tax Records from SJ.Tax Records.com www.taxrecords.com NJ Division of Taxation Local Property Taxes www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation.localtax.htm | ||
| Fairtax01 |
1/6/2001: I didn't know this - I personally only have the property card from Certified - Someone just sent this to my attention: Please be aware that the property cards sent by Certified do not contain all the necessary data to make any intelligent analysis about your property evaluation. The ones that are printed out at Town Hall contain all the data, most importantly, how the valuation was calculated. If you only have a card from CVI, maybe you should get the one from Town Hall too. Remember to have your block and lot # to make it easy for the secretaries to look it up. Lydia | ||
| Fairtax01 |
Dear Everyone: Please find attached a copy of the letter presented to the Mayor and Township Committee members this past Tues. Jan.30th. We need to hear from you. Please e-mail us a response -- it doesn't have to go into any detail, we want to know how many people are still actively involved. Please confirm your desire for this committee to press forward. We are planning to be setup in Maplewood village near Kings on Saturday morning Feb.3rd, between 09:00am and 01:00pm with copies of forms required to file your revalulation appeal by the Feb. 14th deadline. We are planning to attend the Township Committee Meeting this Tuesday Feb. 6th at 08:00 PM where the citizens will be permitted to address the Township Committee. Maplewood Fair Taxation Committee January 30, 2001 TO: Mayor Vic DeLuca (hand deliver) Maplewood Township Committee Members (hand deliver) CC: News Record (via fax) and posted on Maplewood Online * * * There has been speculation and misinformation over the Maplewood Fair Taxation Committee and what its members collectively stand for as a group. We are a group of concerned Maplewood citizens who want a revaluation that is fair and accurate for all. We are not affiliated with any political party, nor are we against paying taxes. We are for fairness and for everyone paying a fair share. Each day, many residents are reaching out to us, looking for general information and clarification on how to appeal their assessments. Others ask us if we're going forward with a lawsuit against the Township Committee (TC) and want to know how they can help and participate. Many others send us e-mails at fairtax01@aol.com to express their support or to simply feel linked to the process. All of these people are searching for a way to make a difference in the face of a Township Committee that is divided and unsure of how to resolve this issue. What has become clear in the past week is that the TC is retreating from its original position of defending the revaluation. The TC has conceded publicly that the revaluation is flawed. The adjustment letters recently sent to residents further support this. Additionally, the TC is moving forward with hiring a third-party assessor to review the revaluation. These are encouraging developments. However, we are not convinced they will guarantee fairness. There is a disturbing theme coming from the TC that the responsibility to fix the revaluation rests with the residents on an individual basis. Shifting this burden to the residents is not a solution, it is an easy way out for the TC. The residents of Maplewood have done more than their fair share to fix their own flawed revaluations. They have had to fight with an uncooperative and insensitive Tax Assessors office and track down an elusive and aloof vendor in Certified Valuations. The TC seems satisfied with making the residents guess how the revaluation was done. None of us knows what our homes are worth now because of this process. As taxpayers, we paid Certified to tell us that, and we didn't get what we paid for. We received revaluations that were incorrect and arbitrary. Entire neighborhoods have had their assessments changed. Where are the comparables? What are the adjustments? No one knows or can effectively explain them. Now, we are told that if we have any further questions, we must send a letter explaining the "error" with "supporting documentation." In addition, the TC has not explained why the tax burden is being shifted from commercial properties along Springfield Avenue to residents. Enough is enough. We are prepared to help push the TC toward resolving this issue. Here is our position: - We are formally requesting a 30-minute meeting with Mayor DeLuca in the next week to engage him in a dialogue on resolving the revaluation issue; - We respectfully request that a small group of Maplewood residents be allowed to participate in the actual review work of the third-party assessor; - We respectfully request that the TC postpone this year's revaluation until a fair remedy is developed. Many residents have told us in the past few days that we're not doing enough as a group to engage the TC to resolve this issue. In some respects they're right. We've tried to give the TC the benefit of the doubt, but it's becoming clear the TC is concerned more about political survival than doing the right thing. We are ready to move this forward to resolution. Is the Township Committee? Meet with us Mayor DeLuca, and show us you agree the issue is one of fairness. Respectfully submitted: Maplewood Fair Taxation Committee David Schwab Kevin Friel Tom Crane |
