| Author |
Message |
    
Dytunck
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 11:28 am: |     |
Here's a follow up to my last posting:
To Larry Seltzer: You said I made an unsubstantiated accusation. You are so wrong. Not only did I make NO accusations, but I SUBSTANTIATED. I merely disclosed that the "independent" expert was a specialist in tax law that made his reputation by defending townships. This was not disclosed by the TC, so I did. Is that OK with you, Larry? GOOD!
As far as their being "independent", Jerry's famous dictionary might define "independent" differently than "unbiased" or "impartial". I know mine does. Clearly, they are not unbiased or impartial. But they are "independent", right Larry?
As to why he was hired, see Jerry's response above. It was to provide legal advice to the TC. Jerry said it, not I.
Congratulations on being able to find Harry Haushalter in the phone book. Any self-described "expert" would be listed. I found his number quite easily. Now, what did Thomas DeMartin, the world-famous real estate appraiser from Trenton, NJ say when you called his office, eh Larry? I tell you what, for an expert, he is awfully hard to find. I searched over 1,200 real estate appraisers in the state of NJ, and he wasn't listed. He is not listed in the phone book. There is a NJ Supreme Court Justice Thomas DeMartin in Trenton, but is this the same person? Jerry? You did not deny that in my last message. Here's your chance. Is this the same person? I could only find two Thomas DeMartins in the entire United States of America. So Larry, how did YOU find him? And more to my point here, how did the TC find this real estate appraiser (expert)???
Jerry quoted from Harry Haushalter's resume. Let's hear from Thomas DeMartin's resume.
To Jerry: I laughed when I read your smarmy dig. I thought it was funny, anyway.
I guess I'm not laughing any more though. Your use of my name (several times) instead of my screen name is intended to intimidate me. That's a clear breach of message board courtesy and protocol. First you called me smarmy, then disgruntled. I think you are making this more personal than it needs to be.
You also said I posted untruthfully about the tax rate increasing. Jerry, that's because "someone on the TC" said unequivocally that the new overall assessment for Maplewood was $1.8B. You seemed to know exactly whom to call and the source of the statement. Then you said either I misunderstood or Vic DeLuca misspoke. Which was true. It was the latter, even though I apologized if I "misunderstood". I was trying to be somewhat gracious there.
What about poor gskrltr's questions about 1975 values? He/she has asked no fewer than 4 times for you to respond on this thread.
To Kap: Didn't your father once play for the New York Jets? Word's out.
Dytunck |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 11:55 am: | |
>>I merely disclosed that the "independent" expert was a specialist in tax law that made his reputation by defending townships.
How do you know he made his reputation defending townships?
>>Congratulations on being able to find Harry Haushalter in the phone book.
At least I called him before attempting to characterize his work.
As for Thomas DeMartin, he works at DeMartin-Schwartz, 318 E State St., Trenton (that took about 5-10 minutes of research). I have his phone number here. The company name used to be "Thomas Couper & Association Incorporated". |
Nohero
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 2:41 pm: | |
Just a few thoughts from someone who's just read these arguments:
- I'm not sure what the big deal is about Mr. Haushalter. If the whole idea behind an independent review is to determine if the job was done right, why not hire someone who knows something about whether an assessment is right (A person with experience defending assessments might have a feel for something like that).
- Whether or not an appraiser is related to a superior court judge doesn't really seem to be all that important.
- It's probably a good idea to avoid posting messages on Saturday or Sunday night, or any time after midnight. Just a thought. |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 10:42 pm: | |
You don't actually believe that Mr. DeMartin is a state Supreme Court justice with a side business as a real estate appraiser, do you? I assumed you were insinuating nepotism or cronyism of some kind (on that score, I didn't know that there WAS a Justice DeMartin until your posting, I don't know if Mr DeMartin is related, and if he is, so what?). Didn't you know that judges have to leave all legal business, political connections, and any potentially conflicting business behind when they attain the bench?
Anyway, to the resume:
"DeMartin Schwartz Inc is a full-service real estate advisory company. The company was created for the purpose of providing real estate appraisal and consulting services to business and industry. The firm represents a diverse cross-section of clients, including state and local governments, pension funds, private legal firms, public and private investors, commercial banks and developers. We specialize in providing real estate appraisal and expert testimony during the litigation process."
DeMartin himself "has over 20 years of experience in the appraisal of real property."
And, Dytunck, given that YOU identified YOURSELF by full name and address on this board, I figured you wouldn't mind the occasional use of your name in a posting -- I won't make that mistake with you again. But now by using your name, the word "smarmy" and the word "disgruntled" I am "violating board courtesy" and trying to intimidate you? Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much; particulary from a fellow who's said some of the things you've said to me, on this board and at the microphone at TC meetings. (I'm particularly fond of "even a squirrel will find a nut", myself).
But, I will say right here and right now that my intention is neither to intimidate nor to make this personal. If it came across that way it was not intended to, and I offer you an apology for that. I do wish you'd lay off the tone a bit, yourself, though. |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 10:44 pm: | |
Oh, and I have not answered Gskrltr because I don't know the answer. |
Franny
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 7:39 am: | |
Jerry - A gracious apology isn't preceeded by a paragraph of criticism and sarcasm.
Sadly, the reval threads are often ugly places and you contribute to that tone as much as any of the worst offenders. |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 8:38 am: | |
Franny,
Why are you harassing Jerry? You seem completely uninterested in everyone else's tone. If you're going to appoint yourself as the Courtesy Police you ought to enforce your rules evenly. |
Franny
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:11 am: | |
I can do without your sarcasm LSeltzer. Please reinforce your argument instead of bullying me. I'm not the "courtesy police" - but it's time that someone stepped up to remind Mr. Ryan that he holds an elected position and he should behave as such. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:30 am: | |
Franny, no matter what you think about Jerry's postings, he signs his complete name behind everyone of them. He puts his reputation on the line with every post. If there are ramifications, he's prepared to deal with it.
On the other hand, most of us (including YOU), are not signing your name, and therefore can hide behind the walls of anonymity. You could have been the rude person in front of me at the supermarket the other day or the nice gentleman neighbor who snowblowed my walkway last week. |
Franny
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:07 pm: | |
Njjoseph - Here's an analogy: compare Jerry's job to a schoolbus driver. Say a bus driver is doing his route and a car cuts him off and makes a rude gesture and yells something unpleasant and untrue as well. Should the driver:
a) Stop the bus and argue with the driver of the car?
or...
b) Keep driving safely and not participate in escalating tensions?
Whether Jerry signs his name isn't really the point - I'm talking about the dignity of our elected officials. Not whether he's right or wrong and not whether me,you, or anyone else chooses to be anonymous on this board. |
Interalia
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:31 pm: | |
I logged on at lunch time to catch up with the NEWS. "Take it outside, guys!" Everyone is very sensitive and defensive. For sure, if this revaluation has done anything effectively...it has effectively divided the town in many more than two places. Let's stay on task here. |
Bobk
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:43 pm: | |
Yeah, let's stop trashing Mr. Ryan. He has made a real effort to communicate and has provided a heck of a lot of information.
I am no fan of the way the reval was conducted and feel that everything was rushed to conclusion to meet the state deadlines and as such is basically sloppy at best and unfair at worst. However, personally trashing members of the TC is NOT the way to go.
Obviously the unwarrented abuse he has taken both on the board and apparently on the street is taking its toll on him and, I presume, the other TC memebers. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 1:56 pm: | |
Franny, you're talking apples and oranges, and besides, there's nothing wrong with either 'a' or 'b.' I know you agree, because you chose 'a' on this board several times. |
Franny
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 2:56 pm: | |
I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the responsibiliity of an elected official. Please don't attack me to bolster your argument. I'm not trashing Jerry - I'm commenting on what I perceive to be a blurring of the line between elected offical and private citizen. I expect my elected officials to maintain their distance from the petty squabbles and name-calling.
I voted for Jerry. As a politician who represents my town I expect him to rise above his personal feelings and continue to focus on solutions and healing the wounds caused by this reval. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 3:05 pm: | |
A quick email to him privately would suffice, Franny. Otherwise, it sounds like you have more to say. |
Shakespeare
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 3:34 pm: | |
Franny,
What if the bus driver is repeatedly cut off by the same driver? On the same road? |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 4:18 pm: | |
Franny, we don't have saints running for office. We have real human beings and sometimes they get fed up with how they get treated, too. How much time do you need the entire board to spend on this? Jerry has obviously read your post. You've made your point several times. Can we move on? I believe the topic of this thread is "cost to replace in 1975." If you would like to have further discussion with Jerry about his behavior why don't you contact him directly.
Bacata |
Alidah
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 4:23 pm: | |
I think Jerry Ryan is a helluva lot nicer and more polite than most bus drivers, and this from a person who wanted him tarred and feathered two months ago.
Thanks to this board I've learned he's an intelligent, hardworking guy who is going the extra mile for this town the best way he knows how.
People have been so confrontational on this board and he has borne the brunt of it for being available. Give him a break! |
Kestrel
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 5:49 pm: | |
Hey, I don't know about all the rest of you, but when I get home from work, I am usually quite exhausted. Keep in mind that Mr. Ryan and, I believe, all the rest of the Township Committee memebers have to go to work every day too. Being an elected T. C. member is not their full time job....Do they get paid for it? If so, I don't think the pay broken down to an hourly rate would be more than $.02! Speaking for myself, I just cannot imagine myself or any sane person I know of, going to a regular day job and then having to come "home" to long, long, long hours of meetings, night after night after night...and then find the time and patience to respond to all these postings...and Jerry has responded!!! Amazing! I think I would get just a touch grouchy now and then too ! If anyone out there thinks he or she could do it better, then by all means, please step forward and put yourself on the next ballot! |
Winkydink
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 6:51 pm: | |
To all you squabblers:
Mr. Ryan made the choice to be on the T.C., knowing it would mean spending countless hours outside of work. He is dedicated and I am sure means well in this work for the township, but I have to say that I agree with Franny - Mr. Ryan is a public official of this town and needs to behave like one. Mr. Ryan needs to rise above sandbox squabbling.
There are expectations for the behavior and affect of leaders, whether they are town council members, senators, or presidents.
I do not see any of the other T.C. members constantly writing on this message board. I would hope they are scanning all the opinions expressed in this wonderful forum, gathering information from their constituents.
As a town council member, Mr. Ryan, you should be listening and gathering information from your constituents for a fair decision regarding the reval, whether to keep it or throw it away and start over. Your political decisions should not be based wholly on your individual opinions (and on the reval of your house), but on a view into the needs of your constituents who elected you (including me).
So please, Mr. Ryan get out of the sandbox - you are not contributing anything - in fact, you are not really answering any questions. Please think about the big picture, act like a Township Official and like a Gentleman. |
Winkydink
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 6:53 pm: | |
Franny
What if the bus driver cuts off the car? - perhaps that's the real analogy. |
Cfa
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:01 pm: | |
I don't think Jerry Ryan needs to be anything but Jerry Ryan. We didn't vote for him to be nice to us, we voted for him to work for us, which by the way, he is and has ALWAYS done an excellent job! |
Paulrevere
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:17 pm: | |
I just had to finally post. Been speechless with the reval. Franny is right. People that govern have to leave their egos at home.
Paul. |
Winkydink
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 10:40 pm: | |
Welcome aboard Paulrevere!
Please come to the T.C. meeting on Wednesday nite tomorrow at 7:30 pm at the town hall.
This is not about egos - this is about the future of our town. |
Johnjdel
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:58 am: | |
hey..Jerry said it himself.
"My personal conduct speaks for itself."
Jerry deserves a lot of credit for showing up here and taking the heat. Likewise, Jerry is responsible when he says "I don't feel the need to justify myself to you."
as an elected official, I thought that was the idea. |
Dave
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 9:10 am: | |
Let's remember the first post in this thread and drop the useless stuff.
I was able to get the property card from the last re-valin 1981. On this form is a category that calculates the" COST TO REPLACE IN 1975".I seem to remember Mr. Gallante stating that on the new cards the "base cost" was also the cost to replace the dwelling in 1975. That number was then brought up to current cost by using the CCF rate of 2.98 Can anyone figure out why the"cost to replace in 1975" on the old card states 55,400. and the new card shows that figure to be 91,433.? It makes a huge value increase. Shouldn't they be the same? |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:09 am: | |
Thanks, Dave.
Bacata |
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