| Author |
Message |
    
thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 127
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 10:05 pm: |     |
It seems that the radiator in one of my children's bedroom has only been heating up 2/3rds of the way across. The radiator is a long one that runs along the floor.
The end that isn't heating up is the end that the radiator valve (where steam comes out?)should be on. Once I found the location, I noticed that there wasn't one. Instead, the previous owners seem to have added additional pipe that is completely closed. So no valve at all. I think this is contributing to the radiator only heating up so far.
I want to put a radiator valve on the end. I know that there are two choices a round one and one that is vertical. I could use either, but the way these additional pipes are on, the vertical one will work fine.
What do I need to do? Do I have to turn any water off or can I just try to unscrew the pipes at the valve end? Some smaller sections of pipe seem to be screwed in with white plumbers tape visible. I did try to see if I could turn it, but it is REALLY tight.
Any suggestions? Thanks all.
TheVillagePub |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 122
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 6:58 am: | |
You want to install an air vent. The radiator valve is connected directly to the steam piping and is used to turn the radiator off.
Look for a plugged tapping on the side of the radiator opposite the radiator valve. Either unscrew the plug or drill it out if it is stuck. If there is no tapping, you'll have to drill one in with a 1/8 inch pipe tap.
You don't have to turn off your water, just the power switch to the boiler.
Master_Plvmber
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thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 128
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 7:51 am: | |
Master Plvmber,
You are right, it is an air vent I need to install. I'll get this lingo down some day. So, the end that needs the air vent is the one that is blocked with enclosed pipe. I just want to unscrew what is there. The threading on the pipe should be able to receive the air vent.
Based on your picture, thanks for that, I should have the valve on the right hand side. There isn't a valve with a handle like that, but just a rectangular piece of metal that extends outward. It looks like it could be a "valve", that would close the flow. I will try to close it with a wrench. Also, I will look for an "on" / "off" switch on my boiler.
Any thoughts on what I can do to loosen up the joint on the valve side where the pipe was screwed in? Remove as much of that white plumbers tape as I can that is visible and then just try and turn it loose? How about the old grape jelly lid is tight trick...bang the edges and then it turns! Sorry, I lost myself there. Any thoughts are appreciated.
TheVillagePub |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 3857
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 8:04 am: | |
The question that always comes to my mind when presented with this sort of situation is, why did someone remove the valve in the first place? Possibly the hole is cross-threaded, and thus leaked, because someone tried to install a new valve improperly. If there is an unusually large amount of white tape this might be a clue. Welcome to the joys of old house ownership, where the unexpected is to be expected. |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 123
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 8:26 am: | |
Again, you shouldn't have to turn off that valve at all. But if you want to, anyway....
Master_Plvmber
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jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3334
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:46 pm: | |
Could you mystery part look like this?
This is a valve missing the handle. |
thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 129
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:16 am: | |
jgberkeley,
It could be. It looks like the side of the radiator without the valve handle. I will send pictures through of both sides, the one which could be missing a handle and the other side where the vent has been sealed shut by piping. (Why would someone do that in the first place?)
TheVillagePub |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3335
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:45 am: | |
This is possible that,
The valve is frozen and can't be closed. Someone wanted to turn off the Radiator and not heat that room.
Removing the vent and plugging the hole will in-fact stop steam from entering the Radiator.
You never know, this just may be what happened.
Post the pictures. |
thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 130
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:13 pm: | |
jgberkeley,
Here are some photo's of my radiator situation. The radiator is a long floor model. This photo shows the pipe coming through the top on the vent side. The system is closed.
TheVillagePub |
thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 131
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:14 pm: | |
Here is a close up on the vent side, when I lift the flap
TheVillagePub |
thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 132
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:16 pm: | |
This is a photo of the right side where the valve should be. It looks like the handle is missing.
TheVillagePub |
thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 133
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:18 pm: | |
A final top view version of the valve side.
TheVillagePub |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3336
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:44 pm: | |
Wow, what you have here is a mess, that likely never worked.
This is a baseboard radiator. Yes, the valve is messed up, missing the handle and from the looks of it, needs replacement or some loving care.
The vent side needs a vent. The nipple system that goes up will have to stay unless you plan on fixing the real problem. Someone extended it to try and keep water out of the vent. But, it was only an attempt at a fix. My experience is that this type of installation will hardly work, ever. It is likely plugged because it spit water all the time.
The real problem, you need a real radiator, or if you need to keep the baseboard unit, you have to re-install it as a 2 pipe unit in a 1 pipe system. Yes, it can be done and will work.
In short you will need the steam feed valve and supply on one end which will be higher than the vent end. The vent end will need to be lower than the supply end and have a good vent with a small riser nipple. Then the vent end, the end where the water will drain will need to be piped to the wet return side of the system.
That is a re-pipe job and is the only way to install a baseboard steam system.
Look in the book, "Lost Art of Steam Heating" I think page 119 for a drawing and a description. I have one installed in my old house which works just fine if you want to see one.
The re-pipe job is not a DIY endever, and I can suggest a good plumber who has done this work before, or perhaps the Master Plumber would do it. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1892
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 5:50 am: | |
Steam baseboard heat on a one-pipe system works as long as the baseboard section is less than - I think - eight feet long. Also, it must be pitched properly (probably 1 inch per 10 feet) so that the condensed steam (aka water) will drain out of it quickly.
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thevillagepub
Citizen
Username: Thevillagepub
Post Number: 136
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 6:45 am: | |
Great,and here I thought I was just going to put a new vent on after I removed all of that pipe work on the left.
If this is moving away from a DYI weekend project and more toward a professional job, then yes any recommendations for plumbers would be helpful.
I already bought the vent, so I just thought it would be my labor cost. Looks like I will have to budget for some more cost! Ouch!
Any other comments welcome. Thanks jgberkeley and tjohn for the comments. It looks like this project is moving away from me.
TheVillagePub |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1893
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 7:14 am: | |
If you are just going to replace the vent, that can be a DIY job. However, at the very least, you will want to make sure the baseboard is pitched correctly. The vent end should be about one inch higher than the connection to the steam riser to ensure that condensate water can drain out quickly enough. Also, the shut-off valve (connects the baseboard to the steam riser) appears to be somewhat vintage, so you might want to replace that as well. A shut-off valve costs about $40 at Palmer Plumbing (do not buy the Home Depot versions). However, replacing a shut-off valve is not for your average DIYer. To replace it, you would want a couple of 24" pipe wrenches, some good muscles and a measure of good luck. The good luck is because sometimes, the old shut-off valves have to be cut off because they are frozen onto the steam riser. |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3337
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 9:41 am: | |
thevillagepub,
Having read all this, have you considered removing the baseboard unit and installing a real radiator?
If it fits the space, it would be the easy 'er thing to do.
TJ,
I'm not aware of a 8' limit. The one I installed is just short of 10'. I put a pitch on it at almost 2" from the high side to the low. Even at that, with the vent on the low side, I had to put a nipple on the vent to raise it to stop spitting. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 1895
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 10:03 am: | |
George,
I seem to recall Noel from Slant-Fin saying that on the HeatingHelp.com discussion board last winter. |
jgberkeley
Supporter
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 3339
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:59 pm: | |
Now that you said that, I seem to remember the discussion.
Anyway, when I did my installation, I went just under 10' and it is working fine.
Perhaps the 8' mark was a suggestion.
My 10' need met the BTU calculations needed for the room and matched the wall length. |
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