| Author | Message | ||
     Jfb |
Townie, Taxing SS income is double taxation as you do NOT get to deduct your FICA taxes. The tax on SS income should be eliminated because of this. When the program was started there was 20 people for every beneficiary. Now there are four. In fifteen years there will be three. No other choice but to cut benefits or raise SS taxes if you want to keep the program solvent. I like the idea of a portion of SS taxes put into a dedicated "investment" account. This would allow people to build some equity for retirement and allow decendants to inherit. This would help the families of black men who on average live to be sixty seven, not using much of SS. | ||
| Townie |
There's something I have never quite understood in this townwide debate. Why didn't people who've been living in Maplewood since the last reval realize they were going to be revaluated someday and taxed again? Just curious. We've heard so much about people "should have known" they needed to appeal (and raise taxes on themselves????). Why not being responsible for knowing a reval was overdue? Maybe I just missed the discussion of that. Also, does anybody in the Jefferson area actually have negative equity in their house? People talk about buying a house 25 years ago and now being afraid that if lots of houses go on the market, their house price will go down. But surely they're still going to make a profit on their home sale. I can understand people not wanting to sell a home they moved into a long time ago and loved. I understand they may not be able to afford the new taxes or not want to sacrifice so much to pay to keep living in them, and therefore will sell. But I can't see how they will be made poorer by that. If you bought a home 25 years ago and are planning to sell, how are you worse off financially -- even, say, if the recent bubble didn't happen, and your Jefferson house had remained worth about what it was worth in 1995? Does anybody really think they won't be able to sell their home this summer for the prices that were standard in Jefferson for 1995? | ||
| Townie |
Jfb, I'd rather lengthen the life expectancy of black men. And increase immigration. | ||
| Jfb |
Townie, What you may not realize is that a threshold has been crossed. To pay 13, 14 or 14K taxes for a three/four bedroom home in a town with mediocre schools is past that threshold. It may be fair based on the law of property taxation. But it is not worth the money. This is what people are upset about. Yes they can sell their home and move. But the same house that they could have bought in some other town for the same amount is now more expensive (taxes half) | ||
| Njjoseph |
Townie, your point about current prices is well-taken. Although I live in the middle of town, one house is on the market for 20% over its 2001 assessment, and another for 30% over. (I heard this one sold for asking price). I don't know that the Jefferson area will really be sacrificing at sale time. What's going on in other sections of town? There must be more than a handful of houses up for sale, and they all can't be on my street. Who has seen houses up for sale on the west side, and for how much? | ||
| Yvette |
Joan - why should we, the people of Maplewood, have "to find a way to soften the impact for some of these people"? I don't feel that is our responsibility, I'm sorry if I sound cold, I don't mean to, but as stated on other posts in these threads, this is a part of life and we all have to deal with it. | ||
| Yvette |
jfb, we are above average (state standards) in education, I wouldn't consider that mediocre. | ||
| Octofoil |
Townie, Permit me to add to the debate... Much of the discussion about folks being forced out of their homes has centered around the monetary aspects. That is the wrong criteria. If it is one's choice to relocate, thats one thing. Being forced to relocate because one can no longer afford the tax bill is quite another. How much equity they might or might not have in their home acts only as a facilitator or a hindrance and is not the proper standard by which to judge this action. Anyone forced to leave their home will be poorer for it by any standard. It isn't the money; it is freedom of choice. This principle is geographically neutral: it doesn't matter whether you live on the east side or the west side. It reminds me a bit of Vietnam, when we were forcibly relocating entire villages. Even though we gave them money and material rewards (rice, building materials, etc), the vast majority of villagers that I came in contact with didn't want to relocate to (theoretically) safer areas. Why? Because they were leaving their homes. It has very little to do with profit or loss. It has a lot to do with being unilaterally forced to leave your home. | ||
| Mtierney |
Definition of "average" - being about midway between extremes. Definition of "mediocre" - of moderate or low excellence, ordinary. South Orange-Maplewood never admitted striving for average. The district used to brag about its goal of providing the students an excellent education. It is hard for some people to accept that their $16,000 tax bill supports "average" goals set by the state. My taxes have gone up each and every year since 1990 about $440 mostly due to school hikes. This year's new reval would have my taxes in one year go up EIGHT times the previous yearly increase. We have not as yet learned what the school budget will ask of us - $63M hasn't gotten us more than average results. Disheartening - definition, discouraged, dejected. | ||
| Njjoseph |
Jfb, I don't want to upset you, but I have a question you may be able to answer: why would anyone pay $10K (yes, soon to be $14K), if they had to put their children in mediocre schools? I don't have kids, but I know I wouldn't do it. | ||
| Nilmiester |
Townie: How do you increase immigration? Where and how? | ||
| Jfb |
Njjoseph, The 15K question. Are these expensively taxed homes worth the price if you tack on private education? Townie, I would rather have them live longer too, but until then, allow them to amass some equity. Only fair. Totally unfair to tax them all their lives and then they only get two years of benefit.. none to the family. As far as immigration. I believe that this country is full. We need to look after our own. Not enough resources here for everyone in the world. Better to spend these limited resources on our own citizens. I know that both republicans and democrats favor immigration. I am neither. (I'm Libertarian) | ||
| Njjoseph |
Jfb, I certainly hear what you're saying. I'm willing to pay my share, and I'm here in Maplewood to satisfy my own needs and desires. However, if I had children, they would come first, and I would not be paying these high taxes if the education was that bad, and I wouldn't stay here for another second if they went to $14K! I'd move! One of my friends in Scarsdale has a slightly smaller house, slightly higher purchase price, slightly lower taxes, but a much better school system. The children were the first priority. | ||
| Nakaille |
Question (sincere) to EB and other Hilton/Orchard/"Eastside" residents who knew they were paying too much in taxes compared to the rest of town: How did you come to find that out? While some posters have glibly said "you should have known and you should have appealed" I and most of my neighbors did not know. We knew our taxes were high. Everyone's taxes in Maplewood are high so we did not question whether ours were high compared with other parts of town. That there might be an inequitable distribution never entered my mind. Really. But anyway. No one, until this past month or so, has ever discussed with me the specifics of their tax payment. For those who successfully appealed their taxes, what data did you use to support your claim and how did you know where to look for it? Obviously you did not walk into the assessor's office and say, Gee, I don't think my house is worth the 1981 reval figure. I am really trying to understand this whole thing. Please help. (My hobbies don't actually include checking out the tax burden for houses I have no hope of buying. And I haven't been in the market for a new home since I moved here.) Bacata | ||
| Mem |
Njjoseph, I agree with you. I'm single without children yet, but if I did have kids I would seriously consider moving from here if the school system didn't improve. I grew up here, I stayed here not just because of the close proximity to NYC, but I love it here as well. I hope I don't offend anyone by this, but I honestly have to say that I've watched the quality of the school system decline over the years as taxes go up. I feel very lucky that Columbia was a top notch school when I attended, it's very unfortunate that it isn't anymore. | ||
| Nohero |
NJJoseph - Scarsdale? I know this is way off the topic now, but this happens to be one of my "pet peeves". If the "quality" of a school system is measured by testing, then Scarsdale schools are of "higher quality". However, since Scarsdale has probably twice the average income, a higher percentage of white collar and college graduate residents, less diversity and certainly fewer students whose parents are not native speakers of English - Scarsdale will have higher test scores than this community. Unfortunately, the school rankings which try to go beyond simple test scores are few and far between, and most of the rankings which we read about are, in fact, based primarily on comparisons of standardized test scores. However, I do not think that test scores are the be-all-and-end-all of measuring the quality of a school. In the end, it is the education of each child, the educational opportunities given to each child, and how each child has improved or learned within the system. That is not something which is measured by standardized test scores. Our children are our first priority, too. And, our children are in the schools here. | ||
| Njjoseph |
Nohero, where did you get the stats on the differences in income and education and first language between the two towns? Nonetheless, please note that I didn't make any judgment calls about the quality of Maplewood vs. Scarsdale, only about the school system, which in my definition means that the students are learning. | ||
| Nohero |
There are various sources for information to compare two communities, but one is the "Yahoo" real estate neighborhood information. These are the links for Maplewood and Scarsdale. I will admit, that my observation as to first language is based on what I know about the student population here, and a "guess" about Scarsdale, given the demographics of the community. | ||
| Ffof |
Njj- I can't help myself from jumping in here - you say you have no kids - so on what basis are the Scarsdale students learning more? I've got friends in Scarsdale public schools too and mine are in public school here (doing great, I might add! Also, Ever talk to any Columbia seniors? There are some phenomenal kids going to phenemonal schools). Anyway, I wouldn't switch to Scarsdale for all the tea in China (and for the same reasons I wouldn't switch to Millburn!) Now, if Fringe did an analysis for us comparing Mplwd to Scarsdale, we'd probably not stack up for the reasons Nohero pointed out above. Now, my taxes are going to be about $16,000 and I've complained about that plenty, but I'm still not going to move. Okay, back to the subject...what was it??!! | ||
| Njjoseph |
But what year were the stats prepared? 1998, before the boom in Maplewood? OK, the income figures are different, but only 50%, not twice as you said. In addition, white collar workers is almost identical. There are more persons per household in Scarsdale. I really wonder about the income, though. I think it's higher than $80K per household. Of course, the average age is about 4 years (10%) lower in Maplewood, so younger folks may not have hit their "peaks" yet. Still, if you don't like mediocre schools, and if you think Maplewood has them, you should look elsewhere, especially given our taxes. That's my only point in this thread. |
