| Author | Message | ||
     Nan |
U, Does this mean you will stop asking for my reaction to posts on threads I have not yet contributed to??? Thank you!!!! You can reach the link at www.uwm.edu/Dept/CERAI/ Manley, Since I have heard that you are running for school board (is this true?) I am curious about the details of your post. Specifically, how do you intend to implement "Discipline, phonics, and basics" into our heterogeneous school classroom? Also, how do you feel that emphasizing these skills will improve test scores given that the tests such as the ESPA (4th grade test) is designed to measure higher order thinking skills and problem solving skills, not "grill and drill" type skills? Have I used the word skills enough? | ||
| Plonk |
Blame, blame, blame Blame the schools, blame the teachers, blame the curriculum, blame the BOE, blame the mayor, blame the TC, blame the parents. Maybe we just have a bunch of dumb kids. | ||
| Manley |
Our kids aren't dumb.The problem is that schools,teachers,curriculum,BOE,mayor,TC,and parents are not on the same page when it comes to our kids education.We talk a good game.Let's get together and deliver. Nan: My point is that we should not forget discipline,phonics,and basics just because they are not popular at the moment.Great school districts use old and new teaching styles. The discipline I am talking about is self discipline.The one that puts structure and order into a kids life.We will all benefit in middle school. | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
Nan: I am on the Fordham Foundation mailing list, and have been for years. I read the "criticism," you posted, and don't recognize the publications which it addresses. But, I do know that the criticism is more of the same old self-preservation edubabble, proven by the website, something "edu." With ed schools telling us only they know how children learn, as if we don't, they have constructed a tower of edubabble, which topples when one remembers that the SAT were dumbed down five years ago, textbooks are dumbed down, but have more pretty pictures, and our students can and should be offered better teaching materials. For example, read Forbes, October 30, 2000; The Great Amreican Textbook Scandal. By the way, readers, see for yourselves whatever about the Fordham Foundation, try http://www.edexcellence.net DWM | ||
| Nan |
Dead, If you go to the web site you cite and do a search, the report comes right up in glorious color. So why don't you read it and respond (with examples)to the criticism without just dismissing anything tainted with what you consider the odious .edu extension. I do not doubt there are lousy textbooks designed by profit-minded committees. If they just fill them up with pretty pictures now that may be an improvement over some of the stuff I had to READ in textbooks (dumb textbooks are not a new phenomena). Modern educational practices do not emphasize textbooks anyway. They rely more on self-initiated projects, collaborative learning, teacher-designed lessons, etc. In whole language programs the entire library is used for a textbook. Do you object to the pretty pictures available there? Manley, After reading your reply I am more confused than before. My understanding is that discipline, phonics and basics are indeed a part of our school curriculum already. Who forgot to include them? If you feel that they need more emphasis, then I would like to know the specifics of how you see that being done. Also, I am most interested in changes you propose specifically on the elementary level, not middle/high school. | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
Ahh, "modern educational practices...." The cause. The effect -- look no further than grades and standardized test results. By the way, teaching to a good test is good teaching. Sorry to burst the bubble, but I am only holding a mirror to "modern" educational practices. DWM | ||
| Jem |
Nan, I admire you for continuing the attempt to have a reasonable discussion, but Dead and U don't "do" discussion; they make pronouncements. We now humbly await the words of Ucnt, which should fill our quota of "Dead-U-babble" for the day. | ||
| Nohero |
Mr. D - "Teaching to a good test is good teaching"? I don't think you'd get that philosophy even on the Fordham foundation site, or from the Phonics Phascists. What's a "good test", given that the only choices are from among mass-produced, standardized tests? | ||
| Manley |
Nan: My experience is in the middle school and high school.You have the elementary background.What would you advise me to do? I would allow the teachers to be more creative in their class,as long as good teaching and learning are going on. Physical Education five times a week.We ignore the importance of physical activity and learning in the earlier grades. | ||
| Nan |
Dead, Is that your final answer? Nohero, Actually teaching to a test with outcomes worth attaining would be a good thing since it would encourage good quality instruction throughout the year and not produce the common problem of schools stopping all other instruction to "teach the test." (Although, I would probably not approve of any test endorsed by you-know-who.) From what I understand (I am not an expert on testing) the new fourth grade test (ESPA) is supposed to do just that. As it is a new test I think we should not be so critical of early results, but wait to see how school districts respond to the challenges it presents. The new test relies on sophisticated use of higher order thinking skills such as problem solving, analysis, and evaluation to answer questions. These are not skills you can cram into students a few weeks before the test; they must be fully integrated into the curriculum for the students to be able to perform well. However, these are the kind of skills we want students to possess in today's complicated world (you-know-who will disagree here). I would guess that students whose education is primarily based on fact learning and simple comprehension would be at a disadvantage on this test (you-know-who will be very unhappy with this). Manley, I am disappointed that your major conclusion on elementary school curriculum is that they should have gym five days a week. However, if you are really running for school board I am glad you are making yourself available on this board (and will expand your comments on education in middle/high school). I hope you inspire other candidates to do the same. | ||
| Ffof |
Manley- You're a Gym Teacher, right? | ||
| Melidere |
Manley, Truer words were never spoken. It's criminal that we have cut out so much of the phys ed program. Healthy mind healthy bodies. We'd rather medicate them to keep them sitting still than give them a chance to run off their naturally high energy levels. | ||
| Jem |
Meli, I don't recall ever having had gym class 5 days per week in elementary school, not for myself during the height of the financially flush (at least for public schools) baby boom, nor for any of my kids, and their school days began in the late 70's. We certainly had recess, on a daily basis, but not an actual gym class. For sure there have been criminal cuts over the years, but I don't believe that this is one of them. | ||
| Nakaille |
I did have phys ed every day in junior high. I loved it (I know, "weirdo!") I wasn't really a jock but I liked the activity and the challenge.) I think it's a great way to deal with some of that excess energy and hormonal/emotional upheaval tyical of the age. But boy, those gymsuits were ripe by the end of the week! Whew! Bacata | ||
| Melidere |
"According to the Surgeon General's office, participation in school physical education programs has dropped precipitously. In 1991, 42% of high school students participated in physical education on a daily basis; in 1995, the figure was 25%. Meanwhile, government studies indicate an "epidemic" of obesity among children aged 6 to 17." "Only 44 percent of American school-aged children take daily phys ed classes. Five percent get no phys ed at all, according to the National Association for Sports and Physical Education. " "The percentage of overweight or obese children has doubled in the last 30 years" Personally, yea...i think it's criminal. | ||
| Jem |
I don't think that you got the point of my post, Meli. I don't disagree with your concern about children's inactivity and the epidemic of obesity, but there are two separate issues here. Manley says elementary school kids should have gym 5 days/week, and you then refered to cuts in phys ed. I simply said that to my knowledge, there never was gym every day in elementary school. Bacata speaks of daily gym in middle school, not elementary school. There's always been recess in elementary school, which should offer the opportunity to run around and be physically active, but there's no such opportunity in Middle or High school, which is where the need for more frequent gym class arises. Until we peel kids (and ourselves - yikes!) away from all those glowing screens and peel the junk food out of their little hands, even daily gym class isn't going to do alot to stop that epidemic. | ||
| Spw784 |
If we schedule a 50 minute P.E. period per day; every day for every homeroom in elemetary ...consider that there are usually 6 periods in an elementary school day. So we would need 1 P E teacher for every 5 classes.(the teacher is entitled to 1 planning period a day).. this would average out to about 1 P E teacher per grade per school.. or about 5-6 teachers PER ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!! where are we going to FIND all these PE teachers (gym is the room, P E is the subject); how are we going to PAY them, and where are we going to find the room to teach in, especially in very cold or inclement weather?? Middle school gets 1 period per day, because they have larger classes for PE and generally more than one teacher for those students.. (i.e. maybe 60 kids and 2 teachers ) | ||
| Melidere |
My, my...if we do it will cost money. If we don't they will get fat, hyper and diabetic, not to mention not performing as well in class. Oh, well, we can always medicate them. | ||
| Melidere |
I can't imagine anything that contributes to a healthy mind and good grades as much as exercise. how can we NOT? | ||
| Nan |
Jem, I forgot to thank you for your insightful observation of posting practices on this board. Something just reminded me of that (Can you guess?), so I thought I would just drop you this little note while it was on my mind. |
