| Author |
Message |
    
Thoughtful
| | Posted on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 5:00 pm: |     |
Tracks,
How do you know that Mayhew is doing nothing but complaining? Attacking a person you don't know doesn't really seem to bolster your logic. And it seems to me that saying the Quarry won't be developed because it hasn't been developed yet doesn't seem like a viable defense against something that will have a huge impact on So. Orange (increased traffic down Tillou Rd.: increased stress on Fire and Police; and where's all that rain water going to go?) And on Maplewood (school population and budget).
I don't think a person has to live in So. Orange for very long to recognize that developing the quarry is not a good idea. We shouldn't ignore a good idea simply because the person who's espousing it lives near the quarry, either. |
Mayhewdrive
| | Posted on Friday, March 9, 2001 - 5:07 pm: | |
Tracks & Soda,
Sure, I'm a NIMBY....I condider SOUTH ORANGE by back yard.
The way the two of you defend the Village Trustees is as frightening as watching old newsreels of Hitler Youth. You have blind faith in "leaders" that are leading in the wrong direction.
You have NO IDEA about how much knowledge I have of the history of the quarry, or of downtown, but you think your self-righteous attitude because you've lived here more than two years gives your opinion more worth? Please!
Of course businesses come & go. Simple economics. My point was that the current Trustees certainly haven't DONE anything to make the downtown Village more business friendly. Drive thorugh the heart of Maplewood, Millburn, Madison, or Chatham & tell me if you see as many empty stores in all those towns COMBINED! It's a complete disgrace. I truly feel for the storeowners who are trying to have a business in this Village. |
Soda
| | Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 10:44 am: | |
Mayhew, et al: As is so often said on this board, the next election isn't very far off. If Mayhew has ideas on how to keep the Quarry as is, or how to attract boffo merchants to the Village, or how to improve Irvington Avenue, or whatever, why not just get politically visible yourself, instead of making blanket accusations or calling others self-righteous simply because they aren't hysterics?
Which South Orange trustees don't you support?
What specific failures over the past two years can you site?
Let us know how you'd do things better. Maybe I'll vote for you! (Of course, having lived here longer than you have, my vote will count more than yours will, right?)
I'm soooo tired of posters masquerading their own bellyaching as viable civic contribution! You don't like things around here? Get elected! Vote!
Volunteer! Organize! Or shut up! |
Alidah
| | Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 10:13 pm: | |
Well, Soda, if all of the involved and annointed in SO are as welcoming and open as you, I'm sure that lots of new people to town will be itching to get involved.
Or is that the way you like it? |
Bix
| | Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 10:48 pm: | |
Now I know where they got the term "Soda Jerk" |
Soda
| | Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 12:50 pm: | |
Alidah: If those newcomers' intentions to become "involved and annointed" go no further than carping on this board, then yes, that's JUST the way I'd like it. They would probably only see empty lots -- not potential theaters -- and most likely they'll reflexively, consistently complain about everything anyhow...
OTOH, if they (even you and B|X and oldtimer Dytunck) care enough about our little burb to take some more active part in improving any small aspect of it, then I say "bravo!".
And speaking of historical perspective, there was a time (before this board became such a 24/7 Town Meeting) when if one wanted to make a difference in our community, one had to actually DO something. Maybe it was writing letters to the editors, or volunteering at the Baird Center, or being a Girl Scout "Cookie Mom", or coaching Tee-ball, or hanging flowers from a gaslight pole to spiff up the block, or attending regular meeting of the Village Trustees. But of course, now, maybe all it takes to soothe one's civic conscience is to point and click. Progress... |
Mayhewdrive
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 3:37 pm: | |
For those with any doubt where our Trustees stand on this issue, you can review the article that appeared in the New York Times this past Sunday. http://members.aol.com/preserveso/NYT31101.htm
as it was posted on the website for the Coalition to Preserve South Orange.
These are the same candidates who ran on a platform of "Proposed development of the quarry, we are against it". It's real convenient to make promises during a campaign & then do nothing to follow thru.
The deadline for candidates to file for the May election is this week. I have a feeling there will be some interesting news surfacing real soon.... |
Villagenative
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 3:40 pm: | |
I hope it's what I think it is! I signed a petition last week.... |
Ffof
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 6:06 pm: | |
Let us in on it! |
Tracks
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 10:34 am: | |
Mayhew drive: I did not see any quotes from any trustees in the article... Just Bill Calabrese who is village president was quoted and he lives on top of the quarry.
By the way, I never said your input was unimportant because you have lived in town for only a few years. I said it seems like you do not know the history of a lot of what has happened and you should do some homework first.
By the way, how did the town get the $500,000 grant money? Was that application put in by residents or the town? |
Mayhewdrive
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 12:13 pm: | |
Tracks:
"But officials, including William Calabrese, president of the townshipâs board of trustees, have been receptive to the development, noting that it would satisfy the Mount Laurel requirement and provide added tax revenue. "
I think that's pretty clear where they stand.
By the way, I know more history of the Quarry situtation than many people. I just don't have the time nor the need to post every detail of my knowledge here.
Finally, the $500,000 application was submitted by the town AFTER they were led by the nose by Patrick Joyce and told of the program & where & how to submit the application. Even after the town submitted the application, they neglected to hold a public heraring in time & missed a complete funding cycle, which caused a 6 month delay. |
Alidah
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 10:53 pm: | |
Soda: Ugh. Why do I even respond to someone like you. Bye bye. |
Argon_Smythe
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 10:33 am: | |
Mayhewdrive compares people expressing their opinions to "Hitler Youth," Soda suggests that perhaps actions speak louder than words...
And Soda is the jerk?
I don't get it.
And isn't Bix's post darn close to a personal attack?
I for one do not support a "throw all the bums out" mentality and would like to hear further elaboration on exactly which bums should be thrown out, and why, for more elaborate reasons than some people posting here don't like them. |
Tracks
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 11:09 am: | |
Every trustee I have asked said they would vote against developing the quarry. Mayhew Drive's complaint seems to be that the question should not come up again. Somehow the village should spend millions of dollars to pay for open space. Grant money is great. It would help pay for it, but there would be a cost. That is fine as long as there is a long term plan on how to pay for it and to make sure that some future board does not sell it off to make ends meet in this stupid tax system we have in NJ.
There are lots of issues in town that always have to be addressed. The town relys on volunteers. Mayhew drive should volunteer to serve on one of the boards... like the planning board? Then he can have direct input. |
Bix
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 12:23 pm: | |
Argon,
Soda jerk is a... ummm.. a pun. Or is it a palindrome? No no, the palindrome for soda jerk would be krejados.
Ever hear the term "soda jerk" before, argon? It's not a personal attack. It's a 50's expression that refers to a person that works at a soda fountain!
And Argon is an inert gas. Smythe is a craftsman. Argon smythe is a producer of gas. That's not a personal attack is it?
B|X |
Mayhewdrive
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 12:48 pm: | |
Tracks,
So how many Trustees have said "said they would vote against developing the quarry"? Was there a correlation between those Trustees and the one who happen to be running for re-election?
Nobody has proposed the Village incur additional debt for the preservation of the quarry. The current Trustees are incurring excess debt just fine, all by themselves.
Again, what I volunteer for is my business, but I can assure you I spend plenty of my own time as a volunteer for numerous things in town. I know you are trying to have me be more specific so you can try to identify me. However, this board is an anonymous public exchange. You care to identify what YOU do for this town, except complain on this board? |
Pbear
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 1:58 pm: | |
One of the many things that impress me about South Orange is the fact that there are so many volunteers involved in Village life. The issues surrounding the Quarry development have been well documented and publicized by the Coalition to Preserve South Orange, one of the volunteer groups, and clearly a lot of time and effort went into bringing this information to the residents.
I think these issues deserve examination. For starters, there is the issue of balance between residential and commercial development. This balance determines the difference between a real town with a physical and communal center and just another commuter bedroom community. We currently are overweighted on housing, and with yet more multifamily rental units going in downtown, the Village surely doesn't need another large high-density rental development.
In particular, it seems that the Quarry is a really bad place to build any kind of development. It sits about a third of the way down the mountain face, and collects all the runoff from the top of the mountain. I'd hate to see what would happen if that were all paved over. The town will have to pay a fortune to handle all the water that will come out of there. The Quarry is worth a lot just as it is.
Also, it's in a very inaccessible spot. It sits at the top of Tillou, which is so narrow that if there's one car parked at the curb, two cars cannot pass - one has to pull over. I just can't imagine what 400 cars or so would look like trying to get in and out of the Quarry. And, of course, anyone who has to travel on North Ridgewood rd between 7 - 9 am knows exactly what kind of nightmare that already is.
Although some of the postings seem to indicate that the open space of the Quarry is superfluous because the South Mountain Reservation is so close, well, the Reservation isn't in South Orange and isn't under control of the residents. Only by acquiring the Quarry - and the state funds ARE there to do so - will we be free to determine what its best use is for our Village.
In so many places in New Jersey, towns have totally lost control of development and and thus lost anything resembling community spirit. I think we should try to hang onto the good things we have and look for ways to improve life here - we can only benefit from that. |
Tracks
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 3:44 pm: | |
Mayhew drive... I was not the one complaining... it was you - just check your earlier posts. If you volunteer, that is great. I don't know which trustees are up for re-election this year, but I doubt that a volunteer is going to worry about not being re-elected to a thankless job.
I know this message board is annonymous... I really have no desire to know your name. I was not the one who asked where you had lived.
I hope the village can acquire the quarry and make it accesible for all villagers. But some of the problems that would come from preserving it are the same that would come from developing it. Lots of people would go there on weekends - all of them up Tillou. It would be very hard to control it so that only people from S. Orange can use it and if you use open space money it will have to be available to everybody. There would still be a water run-off problem. I am not saying these are reasons not to make sure it is never developed, but it is not as simple as writing a check. |
Argon_Smythe
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 4:04 pm: | |
Bjx,
So you are trying to tell me you were calling Soda "A person from the 50s working in a soda fountain?" So, uh, what exactly is THAT supposed to mean?
See, a pun is only a pun when it has more than one meaning. The "Jerk" part is only a pun, as you say it is, if it has a second meaning.
However, I can't attack the literacy of the only person I've ever met to actually 'get' my handle.
Still, I don't see why everyone was giving Soda such a thumping... what was so horrible about his posts to warrant his being labeled a fountain worker from the 50s? |
Bix
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 7:09 pm: | |
Argon,
I was going to refer to soda as a "cracker", but that was going too far. I preferred the mildly amusing "jerk."
B|X (ten points if you can figure out my handle) |
Ffof
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 9:30 am: | |
Bix - I've been working on this but am baffled. Businessman eXtraordinaire? BeeswaX? Big fan of laX (lacrosse)? Beware the Jabberwok(s)? Something about eXcalibur? What is that funny slash that looks like a long "I" anyway? Aarg!!!!!
Fickle Finger of Fate |
Bix
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 10:03 am: | |
A B sort of looks like 1 and a 3.
|X is roman numeral nine. |
Mayhewdrive
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 10:04 am: | |
So, what does everyone think of the article in last week's News Record that claims the town is "bidding" for the Quarry?
The timing of this (just prior to the election) is awfully convenient. For over 2 years, the current Trustees have done nothing & now they claim (just prior to the election) that they have a plan. Sounds fishy to me.
In addition, Trammell Crow is still going forward with their presentation before the Planning Board on April 2nd. So, maybe this was just a ploy to deflect attention from that meeting. The last thing they want is a big public scene (just prior to the election)
Interesting how the "Village United" ticket 2 years ago said "Proposed Quarry Development - We are against it" (just prior to the election) and then did nothing. Now the 2 current Trustees who are running for re-election were quoted in the NR as saying "Every option is being taken to prevent a developÐment from being consummated that nobody in the village wants to happen" (just prior to the election)
The Coaltion to Preserve South Orange has posted the entire article on their site, if you haven't seen it yourself: http://members.aol.com/preserveso/record031501.htm
Call me Mr. Subliminal |
Jimmurphy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 10:11 am: | |
B|X-
So are you saying that your comments are meant to be "benign"? B IX (9)
Jim |
Bix
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 10:13 am: | |
very clever murph! |
Jimmurphy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 10:16 am: | |
Clever maybe - but am I right?
Thanks for the hint, BTW,
Jim |
Tracks
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 1:50 pm: | |
Mayhew / Mr. Subliminal
What do the trustees up for reelection have to do with a presentation to the planning board? Any one can make a presentation to the planning board.
And are you saying you wanted the village to continue to "do nothing" untill after the election? Why would this deflect attention from the meeting? I would think that this would bring more people to the meeting if people think this is a good alternative. The article did not say enough to really make a judgement so I would think it would attract a bigger crowd. |
Mayhewdrive
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 9:50 pm: | |
Tracks,
The Trustees up for re-election (and those who aren't) have never spoken out against the proposed development, except prior to elections. I certainly don't want them to continue to "do nothing", but they can't seem to help themselves! 
The article in the News Record could very easily lead people to believe that an alternate solution is in the works and that coming to the Planning Board is not necessary. Most people may not realize that the Planning Board presentation is for the ORIGINAL plan of 198 rental units, NOT for this revised "plan" for 50 units.
So, Tracks, are you going to go to the Planning Board Meeting? I have a sense you are very familiar with the process. |
Tracks
| | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 9:53 am: | |
I will be there.... I remember back in 1989 or whenever it was they tried to propose like a 900 unit building. I will make sure to say hello to you at the meeting.... just have a placard that says mayhew drive. |
Timmeh
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 9:03 pm: | |
tim |
Timmeh
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2002 - 9:04 pm: | |
meh |
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