| Author |
Message |
    
Cam1
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 4:28 pm: |     |
The offending students did leave the area before the police arrived. Re: descriptions, it was such chaos that I could not give a coherent description of any of them, and I doubt any other witness could either. I like the idea of the parental involvement in detention, but because these incidents occur with student anonymity, I can't see it working.
By the way, what happened at CHS 20 years ago? |
Eb1154
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 4:45 pm: | |
John,
I like the idea about the parents getting detention, I think that this would probalbly be the best deterent. Although I don't think it is legal to throw the kid out, I believe it is very hard to expell a student these days.
Bacata,
I agree that these acts are crimes and the actors should be arrested but you and I both know that they will never serve a day in a juvey hall or jail. The courts and jails are so backed up that the judges will just hand out a slap on the wrist. If you have ever talked to the local police you know how they feel about the conviction rates. They go out and arrest someone and either the judge dismisses the charges or he gives them a minimal amount of time. The problem is that today's society has become immune to "petty crime" and is more worried about more violent crimes. Bottom line is we do need to enforce the laws and I mean all of them no matter how petty they seem.
I am all for throwing out the students who are repeat offenders I just don't know if it is possible. |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 5:01 pm: | |
I don't know that no one serves any time. I've got 3 clients in lock-up right now ranging from age 15 to 19. Of course, these are kids from Newark, Plainfield and Paterson so maybe they get dealt with more harshly because of their addresses or because their parents don't have the money for private attorneys to plead their "youthful mischievousness" (sp?) like the two in Livingston. Let's see, steal a car or build a bomb to blow up a school, which potentially causes more injury and damage? They all need to be held accountable but anyone who thinks there is equal protection under the law in the face of money is naive, in my all too experienced opinion.
Bacata |
Curb
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:17 pm: | |
Cam1, I think Mtierney was refering to when a teacher was assaulted by a student. I think it was in `81. |
Eb1154
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:27 pm: | |
Bacata,
I do agree that money does play a big part in the time served but I still feel that too many people are set free because of overcrowding. And, maybe location does play a part in it. As for Maplewood when was the last time you heard a child serving time (anywhere) because of a fight or some vandalism they did? I know of several cases where these kids were released to their parents because the courts didn't feel they needed to get involved because it was to minor of an act. Maybe, we need to look at our local judge also and not just the BOE on discipline matters. |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 1:13 am: | |
Curb, two full sentences on topic? Are you okay? Congratulations and welcome to the discourse!
Bacata |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 10:16 am: | |
No, didn't know about that one! I was referring to a rape of a female student. But I believe the year may have been '81. |
Greenetree
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 10:27 am: | |
Do any officials from the school system ever read this board ? Do they pay attention ? What can be done to take these discussions to a level of action ? |
Cam1
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 11:39 am: | |
Yes, Greenetree, that is my concern too. I'm not sure what steps to take. I don't feel like I have the time or energy to mount a major effort, yet that may be what it takes.
I am still unclear as to the geographic parameters of this problem. Is it just Plymouth Ave or are other streets involved? I'd like to get a group of residents together to pursue some positive action with this situation. |
Teach66
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 2:17 pm: | |
I know there's going to be something "wrong" with this one but I'm of the opinion that the parents should have to pay a fine. I really believe that some parents wont wake up until it hits their pocketbooks. I also believe that some of the children will have more of a conscience if it concerns their parents having to pay for their wrongdoings. I really don't think that suspension, home schooling, detention, etc., etc. makes one bit of a difference and in the end just costs other people their time and money. Just a thought. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 2:31 pm: | |
Sounds like the reval -- people don't pay attention until it hits the pocketbook, and is now costing a lot of people their time and money.
;-) |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 3:11 pm: | |
I don't know. People buy their way out of trouble (and their kids' trouble) all the time. What do the kids learn from this approach? Having money means you can get away with anything?
Bacata |
Nursie
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 3:35 pm: | |
In 1987 or 88 the secretary to the school nurse at CHS was pushed down the stairs by a student. Her injuries were such that she had to leave her job and go on permanent disability. Also in 1987 or maybe it was 86 the nurse from the Maplewood Middle School (who was also covering Clinton School that day) was mugged going into the side entrance of Clinton School, near the parking lot. She suffered a broken jaw and was out for a very long time. She retired the next year. |
John
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 3:38 pm: | |
Maybe a combination of both Time and Money. And with more offenses the penalty grows more and more. |
Nilmiester
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 8:03 pm: | |
Why not have the parents pay? Don't we pardon cocaine dealers on a national level due to money? It's the way it is now. |
Cam1
| | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 9:36 am: | |
Does anyone know what the geographic parameters of this problem are? Streets other than Plymouth Ave or not? |
Davel
| | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 11:29 am: | |
The February issue of NJ Monthly has an article and the results of a school-level survey on school crime. The results show that the SO/Maplewood school district has a relatively high level of school crime. The report is at:
http://www.njmonthly.com/issues/Feb01/lockdown.html#
Unfortunately my browser was not opening the survey result form properly. I hope it is not a generic problem.
For information on what the state department of education is doing see:
The Commissioner of Educationâs Report on Violence, Vandalism and Substance Abuse in New Jersey Public Schools
http://www.state.nj.us/njded/schools/vandv/ |
Nohero
| | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 12:05 pm: | |
Davel - I'm not quite sure how you reached your conclusion about SO/M schools, from the information in the sites you provided. The NJ Monthly article was a survey of a portion of the state's schools, and the state information seems to be a totaling of the results of self-reporting by schools. Information is broken down by county, but that's it. |
John
| | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 12:16 pm: | |
Personally, I don't think it matters where we rank on violence. If there is any violence we need to address it and stop it. NOW!! And as far as having the parents pay fines, that is not a bad idea. But I think as Bacata has pointed out, other forms of discipline are needed as well. A fine may mean more to parents who can not afford to keep paying out money. But to those who can the time issue may be more of a deterrent. That is why I believe some combination of the two is desirable. |
Greenetree
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 1:46 pm: | |
I find it very disheartening that I posed a question several days ago (do school officials pay any attention to this board) and not one person has replied that they are a school official involved, or what members of the community at large can do. In fact, we seem to hear very little from the school officials. Oh, pardon me... there was that brilliant plan to cut the whopping $23k a year tutoring program, comprised entirely of volunteers. Who cares if we throw away a few kids, as long as we can save a couple bucks. Lord knows, interaction with an adult from the community, working one-on-one with a role model certainly won't steer kids away from violence. |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 2:35 pm: | |
Greentree: It would be nice if school officials showed up on this board, but it's hardly their job. In case you don't know, this board is a privately-run operation with no official status.
If you want to ask these questions, maybe you should attend the Board of Education Candidates Forum on March 15, 7:30 pm, at the DeHart Community Center, 120 Burnett Avenue in Maplewood. |
Nohero
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 2:51 pm: | |
Larry - You are correct that this discussion board is purely private, with no official status. Un-officially, however, I would think that a public official would find it useful to see what is being discussed in a forum such as this. This board is effectively the virtual equivalent of the check-out line at Kings, the line at the post office, the waiting chairs at the barber shop and the stands at a childrens' sporting event. It certainly should not be used as the sole source of information, but it also shouldn't be ignored.
It would be nice to think that some of the members of the BOE are reading this board, even if they do not post in the discussions. (I don't think that they should have to actually get involved in discussions one-on-one, but maybe some of them can post a "Yes, we're reading this" message if they are out there.) If they do read the discussions here, they will become aware of different perspectives in the community, and of issues which are of concern to some people. The subject of this thread is an example of a situation where, given the messages posted, it might be appropriate for the BOE to ask the administrators if there is something that could be done.
Unfortunately, the BOE often gives the impression of relying entirely on the administration for information, to the point of ignoring anything that is not filtered through the superintendent's office. The BOE should act to bring the community's concerns and questions before the administration, and to advise the community about how the administration is addressing issues of concern. Keeping an eye on the discussions here would probably help them in that job. |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 3:37 pm: | |
Nohero - I wish I could recommend to everyone in local government that they spend time on this board, but after seeing the abuse Jerry takes for doing so I'm not sure I can.
If you want to ask the BOE questions you can go to the public meetings and ask. |
Wendy
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 4:41 pm: | |
Not only can you go the the BOE and ask questions but you can make comments at the meetings and send all of your opinions and suggestions in letter format to the Members of the Board of Education and the Superintendent. They may not always agree but they often will. A prime example of listening to the public just recently occurred. At last night's Board of Ed meeting the proposed budget (which the Board approved)now includes fourth and fifth grade instrumental music in the T and E part of the budget. In other words, instrumental music is no longer in the separate proposal but has been brought in under the spending cap. I assume there were numerous letters and phone calls made about that issue (I, for one, kept the Tuscan community informed and wrote my own letter). |
Wendy
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 4:45 pm: | |
I almost forgot. Greenetree, you are incorrect that the distict is going to get rid of the tutoring program, called Achieve. They are eliminating the position of the coordinator, expecting either grants to pay for that position or that current members of the staff will take over that position's responsibilities. I disagreed with that decision as well and mentioned as much in my comments in front of the Board and in a letter. |
Nohero
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 5:59 pm: | |
I agree that Jerry goes above-and-beyond the call of duty when he enters discussions on this board, which can get heated at times. My post above specifically noted that individual BOE members should not be expected or required to engage in such discussions. That does not mean that they shouldn't be reading this board to keep up on issues of concern to the community, or give a sign that they are paying attention.
As for your last point, Larry, well, how shall I put this - Your experience of the give-and take, and responsiveness, during the public comment portions of Maplewood's Township Committee meetings may have "spoiled" you. The BOE (as anyone who manages to catch the irregularly scheduled rebroadcasts of their meetings can see) does not seem to respond at all during public comment sessions. The superintendent seems to have a particular talent for not providing a substantive response, even when asked a direct question from a BOE member.
The recent "about face" on instrumental music was a too-rare example of a change in response to public outcry. |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 6:16 pm: | |
So you're really just interested in them being more responsive, not specifically being on this board, right? After all, if they are unresponsive at meetings why should they be responsive here?
I suggest you bring this up at the candidates forum. It would be a bit harder for them to blow you off there. |
Ucnthndlthtruth
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 6:54 pm: | |
You'd be surprised at who reads this board.
The real question is, who's responding ?
The only BOE member that has posted several times is Bill Gold. |
Nohero
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:35 pm: | |
Larry, I think a good, active discussion, with the community paying close attention, would be terrific in the upcoming BOE election. Unfortunately, the incumbents who seem to be "in control" are not running this year. According to the paper, the candidates include one incumbent (Mr. Gold), one former incumbent (Ms. Slafkes), two newcomers, and (last but not least) the perennial "tenth member", Mr. Manley. At least, we know Mr. Manley is a current reader here.
And U: I'd be happy for just some responsiveness to the community from officials as they perform their jobs; I don't think that anyone should be required to respond to discussions here. And maybe you'd be surprised at who you talk to here. |
Ucnthndlthtruth
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:10 pm: | |
No argument here Nohero.
I agree, especially with your earlier post re:unresponsiveness of Superintendent and BOE at meetings.
It was once explained to me by a school official that the Superintendent and the members of the BOE will not directly respond to questions asked of them during the open session of their meeting because they "may need time for additional research before they can formulate their answers."
Sounds like a reasonable assumption.
However, isn't it equally reasonable to assume that the members of our BOE and our Superintendent
should not only be able to but b{want} to respond to certain statements and questions ?
Like, "Yesterday, I saw a gang of Columbia High School kids beating the crap out of another Kid in the middle of the street. What do you plan to do about it?" |
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