| Author |
Message |
    
davidbuckley
Citizen
Username: Davidbuckley
Post Number: 157
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 3:39 pm: |     |
I believe both electric and hot water systems exist---anybody have or look into this?
Thanks and be well, all.
David Buckley |
Master Plvmber
Citizen
Username: Master_plvmber
Post Number: 140
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 4:08 pm: | |
We've installed snow melitng systems on several residential properties.
On large projects, I recommend a hot water (hydronic) system. For small areas, the electric mesh seems adequate.
It is important to know that when using a hydronic system, the tubes must be filled with an anti-freeze solution. It can get pretty complicated.
There are various methods to control (turn on and off) the systems as needed. One way is with a sensor mounted on the ground surface that must get cold (below freezing) and wet (presumably from snow) that triggers flow or current through the heating coils.
Another is with a simple off and on light-type switch. You can spend as much or as little money as you'd like to.
Master_Plvmber
|
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 109
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 4:16 pm: | |
I've looked in to it.
If you have a small driveway and are repaving it anyway, it may be worth it. If you have a large driveway it is really expensive and the operating costs are high even if it doesn't snow that often.
The electric is also more expensive than the hydronic. the best heating cable out there is the Alcatel, but you need several of them to do even a small driveway. and they EAT power.
My brother is building a house that will have a decent size driveway on a hill and he looked in to it, the estimate was close to 50k plus paving. |
us2innj
Citizen
Username: Us2innj
Post Number: 921
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 6:44 pm: | |
David,
Report back on what you find. We are getting our driveway ripped up and replaced in the spring, and this idea sounds like a "possible."
Anyone else care to give an educated guess as to the cost of doing the job? |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, December 5, 2003 - 7:20 am: | |
I considered this, (they do it all the time on this old house) but when I calculated the costs into the project, it was way more expensive than I was willing to go (I have a VERY long driveway). Since I'm now re-surfaced, I am hoping that the snow thrower is all I'll need.
As much as 'flipping a switch' to clear the ice/snow sounds good, the initial cost and the cost of use just seemed too high for the convenience provided.
Richard
(I'll try to find my estimate.) |
us2innj
Citizen
Username: Us2innj
Post Number: 923
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, December 5, 2003 - 8:40 am: | |
Thank you Richard. I am curious if for a 40 foot long, one car width driveway, we're talking $3000, $13,000 or more? |
davidbuckley
Citizen
Username: Davidbuckley
Post Number: 158
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, December 5, 2003 - 3:16 pm: | |
Many thanks for your input. I'll post any new info I glean.
BUZZCOCKS RULE!!
( Sorry, got carried away...;'-] )
I saw this band last night at great personal cost in lost sleep/wear&tear but it was so worth it.
Be well and rock on, all.
David Buckley |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4000
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 7, 2003 - 6:15 am: | |
How hot do the wires or fluid get?
Would this be a problem with blacktop? |
Davegateway
Citizen
Username: Davegateway
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 7, 2003 - 8:57 pm: | |
I don't know how warm the electric snowmelt gets, but the last hydronic (water and anti-freeze solution) snowmelt system we installed had an design temp.of 50 degrees F. on the supply (outgoing) side, and a returning water temp of around 40 degrees. The tubing is cool to the touch, but warm enough to melt snow. It will have absolutely no effect on the asphalt driveway surface. Any significantly higher temperature would be a.) difficult to achieve outdoors in the winter, b.) extremely expensive to run and c.) really inefficient.
Like MP said above, there are any number of ways to make this work, but a basic system is fairly simple to install and would be much less expensive to run than an electric system.
On the other hand, bavidbuckley has made some valid points, however off the subject. |
davidbuckley
Citizen
Username: Davidbuckley
Post Number: 159
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 7, 2003 - 10:31 pm: | |
Bavid??!! I don't think I resemble that remark.....
;-D
Melt well, all.
David Buckley |
Richard O'Connor
Citizen
Username: Roconn
Post Number: 27
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 8, 2003 - 7:55 am: | |
I cannot (perhaps its the 'never going to happen, now its trash' syndrome) find my estimate, but I recall numbers in the teens of thousands ... and that was separate of the paving (2500) (WB Paving)
Sorry I can't give you a better idea
Richard (ROC)
--Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titanic.-- |
Davegateway
Citizen
Username: Davegateway
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 8, 2003 - 4:59 pm: | |
I did a quick estimate of my own driveway (approx. 1000 sq.ft.driveway, existing 1-pipe steam boiler heating the house, unfinished basement) and came up with a price of between 10-13K,depending on sytem options.
Yeah I know - I'm just answering a question. And no, I don't have it either. |
compsy
Citizen
Username: Compsy
Post Number: 87
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 8:26 pm: | |
This might be naive, but I can see using it only to get rid of ice and packed snow, after an initial run thorugh with a snowblower. Would that impact one's choice of type, and would it also significantly lower operating costs?
--thinking of it for our next driveway paving |
Crazyguggenheim
Citizen
Username: Crazyguggenheim
Post Number: 470
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 9:13 pm: | |
Call me crazy, but the sun doesn't cost anything!!
Call me crazy |
Davegateway
Citizen
Username: Davegateway
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 8:51 am: | |
Compsy, It's much more cost-effective to prevent the snow (and ice) from accumulating in the first place than to turn the system on after the ice is already there. In the most basic application, you would want to turn it on long before the snow starts to fall. That allows the ground to absorb and store the heat emitted by the tubing, which is then slowly released to the surface above. This way, after the snow has stopped falling & the driveway is clear the latent heat (hey beavis-he said "latent" OK there, I said it first)stored in the ground will continue to keep the driveway clear for a day or so after the system has been turned off. Your suggestion about snowblowing first seems kinda like a "belt & suspenders" approach. I think one or the other should do. As for the pricing I mentioned above, that was just a quick example. The most expensive radiant installations we have done were all installed 5 to 10 years ago. The price of this stuff has been steadily falling as more manufacturers are getting into the act.
Mr.Crazy(Mr.Guggenheim?)-Its been 5 days. Where's this sun? |
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