| Author | Message | ||
     Marie |
Nan, As you are an educator, I'm sure you are familiar with and have read the NRP findings. Those reading specialists involved in that research would qualify as those reading specialists who agree that methodology is foremost to successful reading instruction. Here's a tidbit from Susan Hall's report on the NRP findings: "The panel also concluded that the research literature provides solid evidence that phonics instruction produces significant benefits for children from kindergarten through 6th grade and for children having difficulties learning to read. The greatest improvements in reading were seen from systematic phonics instruction. This type of phonics instruction consists of teaching a planned sequence of phonics elements, rather than highlighted elements as they happen to appear in a text. Here again, the evidence was so strong that the panel concluded that systematic phonics instruction is appropriate for routine classroom instruction. For children with learning disabilities and children who are low achievers, systematic phonics instruction, combined with synthetic phonics instruction produced the greatest gains. Synthetic phonics instruction consists of teaching students to explicitly convert letters into phonemes and then blend the phonemes to form words. Moreover systematic synthetic phonics instruction was significantly more effective in improving the reading skills of children from low socioeconomic levels. Across all grade levels, systematic synthetic phonics instruction improved the ability of good readers to spell." | ||
| Eb1154 |
Bacata, I would greatly appreciate the name of that specialist. Nan, Thank you for understanding. Melidere, My point about my wife and I spending the summer using Hooked on Phonic wasn't that our son improved his reading abilities, it was that the school and the way they teach didn't feel that it would help at all. I am very frustrated with Seth Boyden and the BOE for not giving my son the help he deserves. It took us 4 years to get his problem addressed. Correction more than 4 years because they still haven't addressed his problem yet. Let me give some backround about my son. His 1st grade teacher recognized he had a problem and tried to help him, she stayed after school on her own time and worked with him. Then came 2nd grade, a complete waste of my son's time! The teacher couldn't be bothered with him or his problem. Her answer was "he'll catch up" obviously the wrong answer. When we asked at the end of that year if our son should be held back because of his reading the school's answer was "we don't do that." 3rd grade comes and we decide to fight the school and demand they test our son. We have meeting after meeting and still no testing. Every teacher or staff member my son has dealt with attends and they all agree my son is (in their words) just one of those students a teacher lives for, he is so well behaved, a leader of the class, always hands in his homework on time, and so smart. When I asked if they noticed he couldn't read they all said they saw a problem. My question is...How long should a student suffer before the school steps in? Bottom line the testing costs money!!! They stalled us for another year with excuse after excuse. The testing finally came and tehy placed him in Special Ed. for reading and set up an IEP for him. Now the only problems is they don't follow it!! SO guess what, he loses again. We have now hired an attorney to fight our case. It shouldn't have to come to this for us or any parent. EB | ||
| Nakaille |
EB: I contacted the Montclair friends who have used several reading specialists over the years. The one I was thinking of became ill and stopped doing private work. I called the person they currently use (and speak very highly of) but she has taken on a job that requires significant travel on a weekly basis. Since she is often home only one evening a week at this point she is reluctant to commit to another family. She says she would be very interested in September when her travel is slated to end. She understands you will not want to wait that long, however. She is contacting a colleague who either works or lives in Union (I can't remember, it was 15 minutes ago, you know) that she strongly recommends. If that person has time available she will contact me and I will let you know. I'm sorry to hear you're getting such a poor response to your son's needs. State laws concerning child study team testing are very clear about not only the parents' right to request/demand the evaluation (always do this in writing, folks) but also spell out a very specific time frame for it. (NOT several years!) Do you know about SPAN? It's the Statewide Parent Advocacy Network. It's headed by an attorney (a friend of mine) who is very proactive around education issues and they have several offices including one in Newark. Mostly they try to get school systems to meet the needs of kids who might otherwise fall through the cracks. They would be very interested in your situation and any services provided are free, I think. Bacata | ||
| Nakaille |
Here's the contact info for SPAN for anyone who might need it: Statewide Parent Advocacy Network, Inc. 35 Halsey Street, 4th Floor Newark, NJ 07102 Phone: (973) 642-8100 Fax: (973) 642-8080 Website: http://www.spannj.org Email: span@spannj.org Bacata | ||
| Lisat |
EB I want to wish you luck in fighting for and winning the services your son needs. Over 4 years of communicating with schools and being frustrated is too long. I've spent the last 1 and 1/2 years writing to my son's teachers, meeting with teachers and the principal, etc. simply trying to have my son correctly assessed in terms of reading after the teacher gave us her assessment, which was incredibly different from our experience of his reading. We were confused. So, we had him tested by a professional service at our expence and the testing was ignored by 3 teachers. It's amazing how much time and aggravation dealing with a beaurocracy takes. DWM I'm curious about the extra resources, etc. that SB is getting. Aside from buses to bring kids in from out of the zone, what are the extra resources? The complaint I hear from new parents there is that SB has mighty goals without any resources or funding to back it up. Can you be specific in your claims? Phonics vs. other methods... I think a mix is best. I remember learning to read using phonics 35 years ago. Still remember sitting with a newspaper sounding out words to show off for my visiting aunt who was a school teacher. More recently, my son finished kindergarten reading at almost a 3rd grade level (yes, comprehension, too) after being in a full-day kindergarten that stressed phonics. Plus, we did lots of reading and writing and drawing stories at home. But it's true that there were lots of worksheets in his program. Problem is there are still lots of worksheets (and insufferably boring ones) in the public school he attends, too. And this year was the 4th year in a row that he's traced the letters of the alphabet as a routine part of school. When asked why they couldn't be doing more challenging work, I was told that their hands were tied. It was district curriculum. By the way, I'm wondering how much training teachers have in making actual assessments? They seem very reliant on a very narrow assessment tool and very defensive if anyone points out that they may be wrong. Why is this? | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
I would like to start with class size, but the Board has not released the class size report, unlike in previous years. Cherry picking teachers. Spending $174,000 in relocation costs, "to Seth Boyden," [in motion to take money from Free Balance two Board meetings ago.] Passed. Plus additional $112k above budgeted for bus transport to SB. Passed. That sum alone could have provided two and one half more FTE in district. Add in all first-class, in district busing expenditures for the privileged experiment at SB together with the "relocations" money," and with rational reallocation to teaching staff expansion, we could have had 6 - 7 more FTE in district. That is all I know; the truth is out there. DWM | ||
| Sac |
Class sizes at SB are similar to other schools, unless those have increased significantly. They were lower last year, I believe, before the mass of transfers had occurred. Last time I checked, there were 19 children in my kindergartener's class (with 3 other classes of similar size) and 22 in my 4th grader's (with 4 other classes of similar size.) Bus transportation is necessary whenever you do a magnet type program such as SB. You can disagree with the "demonstration school" approach, but if we're going to have it, you must have the busing to support the transfers. | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
But, the Board never approved a magnet school concept. The approach, magnet school, discriminates against all other school children, drawing resources away from them. Next will be S.O.M.S., where there is a sore need for faculty, a need unmet, and which will be unmet, until the powers designate the school some type of "demonstration school," and then give it the resources denied it, to pay for the expansion of the Board's pet project, i.e., no grouping, all children are entitled to a dumbed down, equal education. DWM | ||
| Eb1154 |
DWM, My first grader has 25 children in his class and tmy fifth grader has better than 20 children in his class. SO much for the smaller class theory. The "cherry picking" of teachers is a joke. I think we lost some good teachers. I do agree that they are wasting a lot of money on this so called demonstration school. I don't see any improvement. The bottom line with Seth Boyden is the district needed some more white faces in SB and they sold these parents on a better education theory and they bought it. | ||
| Eb1154 |
Lisat, Thank you for your support. How did you make out with your tree problem? | ||
| Nan |
Marie, I am not an educator, I work in the technology field. I do have an elementary education degree (MS). I disagree with your assertion that most leading educators believe phonics taught out of context is the best method for teaching children to read. While this may be so for the ones selected for the NEP panel, it is by no means typical of current educational thought. (For what I consider a more common understanding, see the series of articles written by Margaret Moustafa--http://curriculum.calstatela.edu/faculty/mmousta/). Even proponents of phonics, rarely believe it should be taught alone (see the Moustafa essay on Whole-to-Parts Instruction, and Research on Effective Reading Instruction, K-4). The NEP report did not change many minds, unless they were already going in that direction. There was much criticism of the report (see http://www.LanguageBooks.com/ for Stephen Krashen's discussion of problems with the report, and the NEP's response to his concerns). Some of the disagreements are different interpretations of the experiment results or pointing out important studies they missed, and some are problems with the either the way the studies were conducted (no matter how Susan Hall defends the criteria for selecting studies) or the relevance of the studies included. There is also criticism that that the report neglects reading for ESL children, which would have to be a consideration in adopting a reading curriculum in our community. There is also concern that that knowledge gained using traditional phonics is more short-lived than knowledge gained using phonics learned in context. Another bone I have to pick with your post is the generalization that ALL learning disabled children need phonics for reading remediation. There are many types of learning disabilities and each one has its own remedy. Children with certain types of processing problems (I am not an expert on LD) may certainly be helped by additional phonics instruction. But you can throw all the diphthongs you want at a child with a comprehension problem and it will not help one whit. Learning disabled children, like other children, vary and all benefit from a reading program that takes individual differences into consideration to aid them. | ||
| Alidah |
Doesn't this school system have reading specialists on staff? | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
Eb: Why did they need some more White faces at SB? Did they believe Black kids can not learn unless they are in contact with White kids in class? DWM | ||
| Eb1154 |
Alidah, Yes. Or so they claim. DWM, NO, they believe that the black kids or children of parents who make less aren't as smart. Here is my theory: The BOE noticed that SB wasn't doing so well on the tests so they figured...let's bring some kids from the other part of town in to SB and raise the scores and if the scores actually do raise then we can say it was because of the the Demonstration School. They really didn't change a thing other than the budget and that was spent on staffing and not educational needs. I do believe that there is a differnce in social environments and that it plays a large part in how a child learns. So, a child on the other side of town might learn a bit faster but it doesn't make him smarter. The BOE needs to recognize this problem and address the children's needs indiviually. But they are too worried about test scores. Finally, I am not a racist and my comments were not intended to be racial. If you took them that way...oh well!!! I guess your names says it all. | ||
| Lisat |
EB Thanks to your advice, the 'dangerous tree' situation was taken care of within 48 hours. I appreciate your telling me exactly the number to call and what to say. I knew someone would know how to expedite the situation. About Seth Boyden, have they talked about how they're going to assess the test results to gauge the effect of the demonstration school vs. the effect of new, higher scoring kids? (There's an assumption here, I realize, but being realistic is important.) Do they talk about it at the school as far as you know? Also, I hear there's more parental involvement at this school than at the other schools (because their help is more welcome). Parents sitting and listening to kids read, etc. Do you see any positive effects of this? I think it's a waste that at many of the other schools parents are made to feel unwelcome (unless they want to do a bake sale or drive for an outing). At private schools, there are 10 to 12 kids per class and there's a teacher (untenured and paid less than public) and an assistant teacher. I think there are lots of parents who would be willing to go in for hours or even an entire day per week to help in classrooms. (And if they needed training, they'd be willing to be trained.) I know that even though I work a freelance, fulltime job, I would work 1 day a week in my kid's classroom just to help the teacher give more individual attention. (Which gets back to the phonics vs. whole language question. Different kids probably learn differently. But teachers with 20-25 kids don't have the time to really know their students the way they can in private school. If a teacher knew their students better she might be able to teach to the child using the appropriate method or appropriate mix of methods.) | ||
| Jem |
Lisat, I have no experience at the elementary school level here, but I'm sort of curious about your statement about parents who would like to be more involved being made to feel unwelcome in the schools. Do you get that feeling from the administration, the teachers, or the PTA? I'm asking because if it's an attitude that comes from anyone other than the PTA (and I sure hope that's not the source of the problem), this is an issue that should be brought first to the individual school's PTA leadership, and then to the leadership of the district's Presidents' Council, (comprised of all of the PTA and HSA presidents) which meets each month to discuss school issues with one another. At least a subgroup, if not all of them, meet, I think on a monthly basis, with the superintendent. If enough parents feel unhappy about this issue, it can and should be addressed on a district level. No one should be turning away willing volunteers! | ||
| Teach66 |
Open Court is a fabulous program!! Tried and true - it works!! | ||
| Ejt |
Does anyone have an opinion as to the effectiveness of either method in relation to the class size? | ||
| Jem |
Teach66, hope you don't mind my asking: Are you a teacher or is your "nom de screen" unrelated to your profession? | ||
| Teach66 |
Well, I'm a "part time" teacher. I've had some experience with Open Court. It's a phonics based program and it really works. To me the class size depends on the teacher. If the teacher is teaching to the individual student then he/she really can't handle a large class. If the teacher is teaching to the class and expecting all of the students to participate as a class then a larger class size works. Parents have to get over thinking that their child is going to be dragged down by slower learners and let the child learn how to participate as part of a group. All this individualized learning is making a mess out of the classrooms. In many private schools the class approach works. Children who grasp concepts quicker than others are used in the classroom as tutors. This reinforces their own knowledge and helps them become leaders and more aware of what their responsibility is to others. |
