| Author |
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Nakaille
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 11:19 am: |     |
Would folks be willing to post class sizes that they know of for the kids in early elementary grades at the various district schools? While there is a claim that resources are being diverted to Seth Boyden from other schools (and certainly there have been transfers of teachers and administrators) it would be useful to compare what is actually going on on a day-to-day basis. Some folks are clamoring for "proof" that the demonstration school is worth the money and effort. However, in order to make appropriate comparisons, we need to know what the baseline is in terms of class size, etc. since such factors can have a real impact on learning.
For example, in another thread there is information that SB has 4 1st grade classes (one is actually a combined 1st and 2nd grade) with enrollments of 22,22,25, and 25. Tuscan is reported to have 5 first grade classes with enrollments of 17 or 18 in each class. So the total number of kids enrolled at SB in 1st grade is 94 while the total number enrolled at Tuscan is 88. The average class size at SB is 23.5 with a range of 22 to 25. The average class size at Tuscan for 1st grade is 17.6, with a range of 17 to 18. Is this difference real? Is it common? If so, why is it acceptable? While there may be an aide in each of the two larger classes at SB, an aide does not reduce the noise level of 7 or 8 additional kids, nor does an aide change the amount of physical space available for desks and special work areas, nor can an aide really make up for the professional attention/attunement that a teacher can give to 17 kids versus 25. What is happening in the other schools in the district? If we agree that first grade is a pretty critical year for establishing basic reading skills, what message are we giving the kids and parents at SB by these kinds of discrepancies? What will we expect a couple of years down the road when the 4th grade assessments are made?
I am glad that the Tuscan first graders have the class sizes they have. This is what promotes an environment conducive to learning basic skills. But, if I were the parent of an SB first grader, I would be very, very concerned. And I would want to know what is being done to correct this situation going forward.
Bacata |
Mom
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 3:08 pm: | |
Nakaille, the best thing you can do for your child when the time comes is register her as soon as possible. I don't believe SB planned to have classes that size. When people wait until August and in some cases September to register for school an unfair burden is placed on the building and they have to make do as best as they can. Your choices, open a new section or hire an aide. I know I would not have agreed to have my 6 year old moved to another class. Again my understanding is that there were a lot of late arrivals this year and this affected the SB first grade numbers.Hopefully The BOE will find a way to distribute information to new homeowners and renters advising them of the importance of early registration. |
Mim
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 3:53 pm: | |
We've had a child at Clinton for the past 4 school years. Never has she been in a class of more than 20. (This is for kingergarten, first, second and now third grade.) Current class is only 17. I bet my third grade class back in the 60s had twice that many kids. |
New2so
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 4:27 pm: | |
I am totally surprised to hear that classes at any elementary school are that small. I went to elementary school in the '70s in a well-respected school district and we usually had 24-25 kids per class. There was always one teacher, with no aides assisting, EVER.
By the way, lest some of you think that these teacher-student ratios impaired our students' later performance, 95% of my HS graduating class went on to 2 or 4 year colleges. |
Debby
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 4:41 pm: | |
South Mountain Annex added a 5th 1st grade class for the first time this year because of late enrollments. Now each of the 5 classes has 18 or 19 kids. My son's class has 18. My understanding is that anything over 22 must either be reduced or an aide must be added.
Sometimes space limitations preclude adding another class at the last minute.
When I went to elementary school (NYBOE in the 70's), we had 26 kids in a class, and then in Junior High I think it was more like 30-32. |
Joso
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 5:07 pm: | |
I think that Seth Boyden went out of their way to enroll as many new students from other schools as possible. As many came from Tuscan (I think), this would explain the disparity. Given the concerns about discipline and achievement, it was not a good idea to permit class sizes like this at Seth Boyden, or indeed anywhere. |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 6:10 pm: | |
My four kids attended Tuscan in the 70s. There were usually 28 children in the classes. At that time, children received reading help, etc. in the hallways. We had one portable classroom as I recall. Children who qualified for special help met with a teacher in what was essentially a converted broom closet. The art class was situated in what was also the boiler room. There was no lunch room, kids, when they brown-bagged it, ate in the auditorium.
Mommies served as monitors during lunch before the district coughed up minimal wages for hired help.
Teachers also ran from any lunch hour duty - even the school nurse went home for lunch."
There was no busing. Kids all walked to and from school, except on rainy days when parents who could, drove them to school.
My kids received an excellent education! |
Duncanl
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:02 am: | |
My daughter is at Tuscan now, and only 19 in her class. From what I've heard from other parents, 18-22 is about average. |
Manley
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 4:51 pm: | |
I took out my sons class pictures and checked how many kids where in each class at Seth Boyden.
1991 first grade Mrs. Crowe 20
1992 second grade Mrs.DeSarno 21
1993 third grade Mrs.Magsamen 24
1994 fourth grade Mrs. Bryant 23
Remember some students might have been absent that day.
Side note...... only seven students remain at Columbia from his first grade class.They are all doing great.
I had fun looking at those pictures. |
Sac
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:19 pm: | |
I think that the 1st grade enrollment problem at SB was not the transfers ... whose numbers were known several months before school opened. It was most likely due to late enrollments of residents within the zoned district for SB. Those students cannot be turned away and cannot be forced to enroll earlier, but perhaps a better communication job could be done to let their parents know of the importance of early enrollment. Tuscan (and perhaps other schools) always did send something home to current students' parents (via the backpacks) asking them to enroll younger siblings as early as possible and to share the information with their neighbors, but this isn't a reliable way to reach everyone who needs the information. Perhaps some direct mail to all households is in order as well as announcements around town and in the local papers. |
Spw784
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:39 pm: | |
Debby, I need to clarify something... This is not the first time the Annex has added a 5th section of grade 1. It happened a few years ago, (3 years probably... this years 4th graders caused it). The teacher was hired something like Labor Day weekend. For two years there were 5 first grades, then it dropped back to 4 sections, now it is back at 5.
Currently, the kindergartens have 3 sections at 18 and one at 22. First grade has 5 sections , each with 17 or 18. Second grade has 4 sections, each at 20, 21 or 22.
First grade class size has almost always been a surprise as people who had their kids in full day kindergartens outside of the district schools, enroll their children in our first grade. |
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