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Greatest Straw of all time!
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1707
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 3:53 pm: |     |
Nohero,
There's nothing phony about this point.
"The agency gave Vermont Yankee the worst security rating among the nation's 103 reactors."
And this guy wants to be President?? To be honest, after a report like this my guess is he'd be hard pressed to get re-elected Governor in Vermont.
BUSH/CHENEY IN 2004.. |
Greatest Straw of all time!
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1708
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 4:03 pm: | |
Duncan,
Silly Bush bashing pot shots are nothing new here on MOL but your last post may be to date the strangest one I've seen. It makes no sense and it certainly doesn't seem to target a specific issue you have with the President. I'll assume it's just once again your general dislike of the fact he won in 2000. Still a sour grapes thing, I guess.
BUSH/CHENEY IN 2004.. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10565
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 5:19 pm: | |
What is Howard Dean hiding?
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040104/NEWS/401040386/1036
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10566
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 5:21 pm: | |
Yet another example of how Howard Dean doesn't practice what he preaches...
http://www.tribnet.com/24hour/politics/story/1097901p-7679995c.html
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Greatest Straw of all time!
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1709
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 6:35 pm: | |
thanks Sebonis,
I guess it's official. Howard Dean is the new Nohero.
BUSH/CHENEY IN 2004.. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6044
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 7:55 pm: | |
And here are the killer paragraphs to show Sbenois' slowly losing his grasp on reality:
quote:Dean's group volunteered the names of those it consulted with in its final report. While Cheney has refused to formally give a list to Congress to preserve the White House's right to private advice, known as executive privilege, his aides have divulged to reporters the names of many of those from whom the task force sought advice.
The Bush-Cheney campaign and Republican Party received millions in donations from energy interests in the election before its task force was created. Dean's Vermont re-election campaign received only small contributions from energy executives, but a political action committee created as he prepared to run for president collected $19,000 , or nearly a fifth of its first $110,000, from donors tied to Vermont's electric utilities.
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10567
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 8:28 pm: | |
Dave,
The point is that Dean has many of the same character flaws and/or political traits that some of the people here on MOL hold against Bush and his administration.
Do you condone Dean's actions based upon the quotes you put up so show my sanity? Are we into a game of relativism now where Dean can be excused because while the intent was roughly the same, the overall $ impact was less? Does the fact that Vermont is a wee little state (versus the whole of the US) figure into your calculations?
I am not saying what he did was wrong. I'm just pointing out that he's a pretty big hypocrite and he should be called on the carpet for it.
But don't take it from me, the other Democrats are going to do a fine job ripping him to pieces. Then they're going to all pretend that it didn't happen if Dean gets the nod.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10568
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 8:34 pm: | |
quote:"It taints the whole report," Democratic state Rep. Al Stevens told AP in 1999. "I'd have more faith in that report if the discussions had been open."
Elizabeth Bankowski, who served as the other co-chair of the task force, told the legislature that the requirement the task force meet in secret "was decided in advance by the governor's office and the governor's lawyer." Dean's lawyer argued the secrecy was permitted under a 1988 legal change.
Another secrecy issue has surfaced during Dean's campaign over his decision, before leaving office as governor in January, to seal for 10 years about 145 boxes of his official papers.
Two of Dean's predecessors used executive privilege to seal roughly the same percentage of their documents, but not for so long. A conservative Washington legal group has sued to try to unseal the records.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6045
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 9:03 pm: | |
I'm not big on Dean, but your argument lacks any sense of proportion. It's like calling Dean a hypocrite because he cut a tree down a few years ago and is now complaining about Bush's attack on the environment. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10569
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 9:22 pm: | |
No sense of proportion is required here. They're both wrong for doing these things behind closed doors. Just because Dean's were on a smaller scale doesn't mean he's not a hypocrite.
Is there an official rulebook that defines when these things should count?
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6047
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 9:35 pm: | |
Yes. Page 434. I'll loan you mine if you left yours at the Cafe again. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2640
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 9:48 pm: | |
I'd just like to say that I still have hopes for Dave. I don't know if Dean is the best of the bunch, but he'd still be preferable to the incumbent (or to any pale imitations of the incumbent who are running on the Democratic side).
Oh, and Straw keeps bringing up things like:
quote:"The agency gave Vermont Yankee the worst security rating among the nation's 103 reactors."
... even though he's already been told that the State of Vermont has no legal authority to dictate safety requirements at nuclear plants.
Yeah, I know, that injects facts into the discussion, and ruins the fun for everyone. Sorry ... |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2030
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 9:54 pm: | |
Seems like we have two types of Democrats in Maplewood this year. Those who support Dean and those such as Straw and Sbenois who are angry that the Democrats are not lining up behind somebody like Lieberman. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10570
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 1:33 am: | |
I'm not angry at all. I'm rather happy. I'm not a fan of Dean because I think he twists with the wind. I think Lieberman is a nice, honest guy but I just don't think he'd be a good President. Kucinich is a looney. Sharpton is a fraud and will remain so until he apologizes for the Tawana Brawley affair and the way he tarnished the reputation of the law enforcement officials involved. Kerrey is okay but he's boring. Edwards is rather interesting to me. Hillary is a carpetbagger and a liar. Carol Moseley-Braun is rather nice and intelligent but she hasn't a prayer.
Who is left?
Gore is a loser. I like Bob Kerry. He seems like a regular guy.
I like John Glenn. He's an American hero. Alan Shephard is too. In fact, he was totally overshadowed by Glenn and it was unfair.
I wish Jim Lovell would run for President. Now there is a guy with integrity, brains, guts and a levelheaded approach to problems that is second to none.
Who is better than Jim Lovell?
Jim Lovell. One of the greatest Americans alive. Certainly in the top three.
He makes all of these guys look pathetic.
Lovell '04
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 247
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 6:36 am: | |
Joe Biden? |
Greatest Straw of all time!
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1710
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 8:56 am: | |
Mcgreevey 
BUSH/CHENEY IN 2004.. |
Greatest Straw of all time!
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1711
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 9:02 am: | |
Bill Bradley will endorse Dean later today. Further evidence, the former Governor is now officially the Democratic front runner.
BUSH/CHENEY IN 2004.. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 621
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 9:14 am: | |
Dean's support grows every time he has a loser of an outing. Just like his appearance on Meet the Press where he was made to look foolish on his pronouncements given what he'd said before -- his support supposedly rocketed upwards in donations and interest. You can nail him any which way, but his fan base will continue regardless.
It just comes down to how much the rest of the country is willing to overlook his obvious flubs, distortions and outrageous claims. Not likely in these high-stakes times, I think.
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mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 657
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 9:52 am: | |
It just comes down to how much the rest of the country is willing to overlook his obvious flubs, distortions and outrageous claims.
Considering that BUSH still has high approval ratings PROVES that flubs, distortions & outrageous claims don't seem to bother people anymore. |
Greatest Straw of all time!
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1712
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 10:25 am: | |
This is what it comes down to. The Democratic Bush bashing liberal left will support anyone who has the financial backing he needs to over take Bush.
Mayhewdrive's last post is a great example of why the Democratic party is in near ruins.
They hate Bush so they don't mind if someone who is everything they "think" Bush is runs as their candidate.
How sorry it must be to be a bleeding heart.
Don't forget...
BUSH/CHENEY IN 2004.. |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 269
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 10:47 am: | |
Let the hate of the left lead the dems to third party status. They had their day in the sun and now it's time for a new party with energy, ideas, and a much more positive outlook to come forward.
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 658
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 11:03 am: | |
Straw,
You amuse me.
You state the "left will support anyone who has the financial backing he needs to over take Bush." Isn't that exactly what happened in 2000 with GWB? Do you honestly think GWB was the most qualified person to be president? Of course not...but he raised so much money, the right rallied around him as their hope to re-take the White House after 8 years of Clinton prosperity.
You also state "they don't mind if someone who is everything they "think" Bush is runs as their candidate." I don't claim to be a huge Dean supporter and I certainly am amazed that his flubs don't get him in more trouble. However, the point is that if the flubs of BUSH don't get HIM in trouble (and boy are there MANY!), Dean's flubs certainly seem insignificant in comparision.
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 622
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 12:01 pm: | |
Bush was the only credible republican candidate that got taxes and social security right. The only person running that had those ideas correct was Forbes, but he didn't blink enough to be president. There wasn't near the sort of desperation that is exhibited by the left in their "anyone but Bush" crusade. Most conservatives are too principled to do an "anyone" -- which politically can hurt them, but so be it, they say.
Dean's flubs will get him in trouble with a whole host of interests on the Left/Right divide nationally as well as within the Dem party. Bush's flubs are usually tilted to the Left (tariffs, drug welfare benefit, campaign finance reform, etc) and they would hurt Bush but only with his conservative base. Since he got taxes and the war right, Bush is fine.
Absent taxes and the war, Bush would be as vulnerable as his father was in '92 for a primary challenge from the right.
And try as they might, you can't paint Bush as a fiendish liar successfully, or as an extremist. Probably due most to the fact that he isn't one, but the public doesn't perceive the guy as one. Dean on the other hand looks calculating at all times. Clinton could tell the public the sky is green and get away with it. I don't think Dean has that ability, but we'll see. |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 219
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 1:54 pm: | |
Howard Dean seems to be a likable enough guy to some. He certainly has gathered a great deal of grass roots supporters. And thanks in part to his biggest supporter’s invention, the internet, he has amassed a heck of an email list, some say his most powerful tool. There is even talk that he may ask his supporters to withold their votes if he is not given the nod by the party at the convention.
Don't you wonder what that might do? Better yet, if the "General" doesn't agree to be his running-mate... Don't worry, the Clinton's will need Dean's support in 2008, so he'll come around, if only because Wes is told to do so by Bill.
Anyway, I have a number of problems with understanding his often confusing remarks though.
According to Rich Lowry, he has said that the United States shouldn’t go to war without the "permission" of the United Nations. I’d like to know other examples of autonomous acts in which the United States must require U.N. "permission"?
And forgive me but I agree with Mr. Lowry in asking for Dean to explain why he continues to say the United States shouldn't have fought the Iraq War because Saddam did not present "an imminent threat" to the United States. Yet, he obviously supported wars in the 1990s in Bosnia and Kosovo. How exactly did Slobodan Milosevic pose an imminent threat to the United States?
Then elsewhere I recently read where Howard Dean was raised in what most of us would consider a luxury apartment on Park Avenue in New York City. This seems to be a trend among Democratic presidential candidates. Recall that Al Gore, was raised in a 5-Star hotel in Washington D.C. Every morning a limo would pick up little Al at the front door of the hotel to take him to his exclusive private school. His kids did about the same thing and look how well his son has turned out. Oh, those public schools in D.C., they would’ve provided a much better setting, and they'd have been news worthy too.
Yeah, and the democrats want you to believe that these guys will effectively represent you if elected. Right…
The news of Howard Dean's exclusive upbringing seems to be a bit upsetting to Howard's mom, Andee Maitland Dean. Last week Mommy Dean told the New York Times that "Howard didn't have the least bit of a glamorous upbringing. When he was growing up, we didn't even treat the servants like servants."
Well isn't that special. If the servants aren't treated like servants then you're just like everybody else, aren't you? Thank you Howard.
Additionally, and thanks to Rich Lowry’s column, I wonder if Mr. Dean will tell us which were his favorite ski spots during the Vietnam War?
Here is a link to Lowry's entire sixteen questions. Regardless of your opinion of Dr. Dean, you might like to see these answered.
http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200401050848.asp
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 623
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 2:07 pm: | |
Dean has clarified his stance on the legit way to take out Saddam Hussein. The 'right way' would have been ala Bush 41 and get a UN coalition to take out Saddam who posed a REGIONAL threat, not an imminent one, to the US. So, UN sanctioned regional threats are OK but ONLY if the UN sanctions it...I guess. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 2:23 pm: | |
You guys are right, it's much easier to make up reasons and tell tall tales than to try and get co-operation in an honest way. And if they don't buy our stories, then we'll change "french fries" to "freedom fries," which ought to teach them a good lesson. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 624
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 2:34 pm: | |
It's much easier to base your rationale on the intelligence reports and apparatus that your predecessor in office left you than making things up. And while you're at it, you can appeal to the humanitarian instincts of the public and the political party opposing you to gain their support. But we've learned that that appeal to end real humanitarian suffering only plays well when your detractor's candidate is in office. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1719
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 3:49 pm: | |
appealing to the humanitarian insticts of the public is a helpful thing, especially after you've already proceeded under other pretences that didn't pan out. |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 271
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 4:01 pm: | |
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 272
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 4:02 pm: | |
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2641
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 4:07 pm: | |
Just a suggestion -
Bush fans may not want to play the "goofy picture" game. For example:
There's a chance they won't do so well! |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 273
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 4:15 pm: | |
Your getting off topic, nohero.
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2642
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 4:20 pm: | |
What was that topic, again? |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1722
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 4:25 pm: | |
feckless morons |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 229
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 11:06 am: | |
1) Howard Dean has said that he isn't sure that Osama bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks.
2) Howard Dean has also said that he finds the theory that George Bush had advance warning of the attacks "interesting."
Therefore, ... Dean doesn't know if Osama knew the 9/11 attacks were coming, but he thinks George Bush might have. Nice!
And this is the man that leads in the run for the Democratic nod? |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 231
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
Can some kind Deanie Baby please explain this intelligently.
Howard Dean has said that the US isn't supposed to act to protect itself from terrorism without UN permission. So, can one of you please explain what Howard Dean's exact parameters are for his "Mommy May I?" United Nations policy. |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 233
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 11:33 am: | |
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission says former Gov. Howard Dean and other Vermont officials violated federal law by releasing secret protection plans for its nuclear power plant in the wake of the September 11th attacks. Tell me was Vermont safer after Howard Dean made these plans public?
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Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 288
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 12:49 pm: | |
yeah but, we sold weapons to Saddam in the 80's.
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1734
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 1:02 pm: | |
How has "the United States shouldn't go to war without the 'permission' of the United Nations" morphed into "the US isn't supposed to act to protect itself from terrorism without UN permission"? [both taken from your posts]
If you were to do a Venn diagram, "going to war" and "protecting ourselves from terrorism" would be two circles with a small area of overlap. There are lots of reasons to go to war without having anything to do with terrorism; and there are lots of ways to protect against terrorism without going to war. Surely you don't mean that they're interchangeable.
Your logic in the 11:06 post is off, even if you did get the facts right. Ideas aren't transitive in the same way numbers are in math, and two preferences don't necessarily add up. In law it's phrased something like "no, but if he had..."
As for the facts, Dean said, "I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials." This is the quote he was reamed for (and copied-and-pasted from the right-wing site newsmax.com), and all it says is we should follow the traditional legal formalisms through. It was good enough for the Nazis at Nuremburg, but nobody thinks we believed they were innocent.
Likewise the fact that the "Bush knew" theory is "interesting" does not mean he thinks it's credible. |
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