| Author |
Message |
    
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 8:57 pm: |     |
And the alternative, in the face of all the factual information that you have in your hands about the reval, is? |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 9:17 pm: | |
I think I may get sick! The reval was flawed! Ugh, I said it again.
The outrage and turmoil this process has caused in our beautiful community is all the evidence anyone needs!
No, I can't fix it - I think that is your job. |
Interalia
| | Posted on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 10:21 pm: | |
Mtierney:
Thank you for understanding how frustrated I feel. Of course YOU can't fix it. But perhaps before the TC got "reval happy" they could have considered being a pioneer and taking on the State. By that I mean, as our elected officials, perhaps facing the outrageous (and unfair) outcome of a reval in an already highly taxed community, Maplewood could have led the way to Property Tax reform. Certainly, the town would have been a lot more sympathetic to the obscene reval outcome had the TC attempted ANY other option prior to validating CV's numbers. Instead of lobbying for reform, TC hired an attorney (once again with our money) to protect itself against the upcoming onslaught of appeals. |
Shakespeare
| | Posted on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 10:38 pm: | |
So let me get this right: it would have been ok for the town to throw money away at a fruitless attack on the state, but it's not ok to spend money to have the study evaluated? And the reason you cite is that "the town would have been a lot more sympathetic....". So some baseless PR effort wins your vote over independent evaluation? Are you serious? You want to have it both ways: attack the TC for playing politics, then blame them for not playing politics.
Can someone replace the bulb in this thread? |
Curmudgeon
| | Posted on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 10:48 pm: | |
Mtierney -
You're right, it was and is their job...and they did it admirably under difficult conditions. That you're unhappy with the outcome is not irrelevant or something to be dismissed out-of-hand, but neither is it a controlling factor.
Was there outrage and turmoil? Sure. But look at it as the municipal equivalent of chemotherapy...you take some medicine that makes you feel really sick, even makes your hair fall out...but after all that's done, you've hopefully purged yourself of a malignancy. The TC administered some powerful medicine to the tax inequities in town. It made some of the town sick. In the end, though, the whole town will be healthier than it was. It might even get us to work on ridding our environment of the carcinogen of property-tax funded education.
Would I be seriously ticked off if I were one the metaphorical hairs that fell out (i.e., one of the people who really, truly can't afford to live in their own homes any longer)? Of course I would. Big time! (to borrow a phrase from Dick Cheney) In the end, though, the TC's job is to consider the good of the town as a whole, ahead of the good of any particular individual. That's what public officials are supposed to do.
(Sorry for the heavy-handed metaphor, but it seemed apt.) |
Ihateice
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 6:14 am: | |
Pay your stupid taxes already and stop the gosh darn whining! If you can't afford it, give up one of your SUV's. Instead of buying your kids 125.00 sneakers, go to Payless for a year, you'll see what a difference it makes. Also, I notice what people put out on recycling day......in a 2 week period, I see houses with 10 or more bottles of wine. If they would buy less, they'd have the money for their taxes. You have to ask yourself what's important at this time...living high on the hog or paying your increase until you can budget both of them. |
Overtaxdalready
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 7:33 am: | |
Relax ice. Don't tell people how to live their lives. |
Snowmom
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 7:52 am: | |
Ihateice - Its more than a bit presumptuious (sp?) of you to assume that all overtaxed westsiders "squander" our hard earned salaries on "frivolities" such as SUVs (actually, its essential to have front wheel drive on the hills). Many of us will no longer be able to continue to save money for education, retirement, etc because of an overnight 50% increase in our taxes. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have to pay our share, but to jack up our taxes by 50% in one fell swoop is way beyond fair, no matter which side of town you're talking about.
The sense of envy and resentment implied by your comment greatly reduce the strength and validity of your comments. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 8:42 am: | |
Snowmom -- do you need an SUV to get up and down the hills? ;-) |
Snowmom
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 9:01 am: | |
Not personally, Njjoseph, I drive a boring old minivan with front wheel drive (after almost being killed on the highway last winter without front wheel drive). But I still don't feel its my place to criticize others' vehical choices. That is not the issue here: fairness and being reasonable are. |
Mlj
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 9:09 am: | |
I suggested the following recently and would like to repeat...now that the reval is going through, it seems like a good time to quit pecking away at people facing 12K and up in taxes. Enough already. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 9:57 am: | |
Let's quit pecking at people facing $10K and up, too! :-) |
Mammabear
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 10:22 am: | |
Ihateice- I am astounded at your ridiculous comments!!! You sound like such a moron! Give up our wine and our SUV's??? PLEASE!!!!! Get a life! |
Dave
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 10:42 am: | |
Mammabear: First and final warning on personal attacks. I know Ihateice expressed an opinion you don't like, but there's no reason to respond like that. |
Mammabear
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 10:49 am: | |
Sorry Dave! |
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:38 am: | |
OK! I think we've been over this all before, but here goes·
Yes it is unfair to get an increase in taxes of over $1,000
But, its also unfair to expect those who have been overpaying to continue to do so for another year (never mind 3yrs.). The problem with exact valuation is that we all do receive the same services and those services do not increase dollar for dollar with the value of your home.
The reval was necessary. It was long overdue. Had there been a reval 10 yrs ago would we have seen the discrepancies we saw?
My conclusion, from what I have read, is that the tax structure is the problem not the reval. NJ PROPERTY TAXES in general ARE TOO HIGH. ESPECIALLY, ESSEX COUNTY PROPERTY TAXES ARE TOO HIGH. Essex county caries too much of the burden for rehab. This should be handled more on a state-wide level, maybe even on a National level. Guaranteed increases in pay are also a problem. Many companies do not increase pay at the rate we guarantee our public service employees. Maybe we need to start thinking about what is fair for everyone not just what will keep these employees happy. Yes it would be a burden if no one was willing to plow our streets, pick up our garbage, run the trains or, even teach our kids. But at the same time it would be a burden if your bank could not open or your hospital or, if many other non-public services were not available. Yet we don't guarantee any form of payment or job security to these people. Why do we need to do so for public or government service personnel?
Finally, Maplewood taxes are too high mostly because we rely so heavily on residential Property taxes. What can we do to bring in more business tax dollars? I think, Springfield Ave. redevelopment may aid this problem in the long run. Also, (and this is only a thought) maybe we could eventually replace some of the areas on the outskirts of town with more industrial or business properties. And again I will ask, HOW MUCH DO WE GET FROM NJ TRANSIT IN TAXES for the property on Springfield Ave.?
So, now that the reval is behind us (or almost so) we need to shift to asking our elected officials to point out the flaws in the system and ask for (or should I say DEMAND) changes. Let's get relief for everyone |
Evm
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:43 am: | |
Snowmom- give me a break, it is not "essential" to have front wheel drive. What do you live up on a mountain? |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:43 am: | |
True confession time: I am recently retired, living in the middle of Maplewood (far from that westside). I drive an 11 year old Honda. My retirement investments are melting away daily. The guy at the bank tells me to look at the long term and not to panic! Do we have that time to wait? We lived frugal lives, worked hard, stayed in the same home 28 years, raised our kids and now want to stay because our grandkids live about 20 minutes away.
Retirement travel? Not likely.
As to that rather tasteless analogy to chemo: After a terrible treatment period, many today are cured and go on to live many healthy years. These taxes that were dumped on us in one fell swope are here to stay.
That other poster's bitterness says more about the result of this reval than anything I might say. |
Mem
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:49 am: | |
ONLY ten bottles in a two week time frame? Are you sure? I guess I was counting wrong when I was snooping through all my neighbor's recycling. |
Lydial
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 12:17 pm: | |
Ihatiece - had to comment; I live on the hill and drive a 4-wheel drive (used) station wagon, and yes, there are many days that I need it to get up the hill.
If you're wandering by peeking in my recycling and coming to conclusions about my fiscal responsibilty, FYI I put out my recycling when it's FULL - so if you see 8 bottles of #2 laundry detergent don't conclude that I do the wash 7 days a week.
It's sad that this reval has reduced people to making value judgements about their neighbor's recycling(!). Such rancor has emerged about money and possessions and it goes way beyond the reval issues. If someone is overpaying on any house in Maplewood it's irrelevent if they have the financial ability to pay the taxes or not.
I don't think that the people whose taxes are soaring are to be judged now as self-absorbed sybarites living on the hill. |
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