| Author | Message | ||
     Ucnthndlthtruth |
According to the February 2001 "New Jersey Monthly" "Violence in New Jersey Schools" report, for the school year 1998-1999 ,the South Orange-Maplewood School District lead all other public school districts in Essex County (except for East Orange), in the category of "fights" with 78. East Orange 167 *note, school district consists of 3HS, 4MS, 12,ES South Orange-Maplewood 78 Bellvelle 76 Montclair 75 Newark 40 Bloomfield 38 Irvington 14 The South Orange - Maplewood School District came in 2nd out of 18 Essex County public school districts in the "fights" category. When compared to all other public school districts in New Jersey, in the catogory of "fights", The South Orange- Maplewood school district (1HS, 2MS, 6ES) was only topped by : Piscattaway (Middlesex county) 232 Millville (Cumberland County) 228 Atlantic City (Atlantic county) 179 Union Township (Union County) 159 Jersey City (Hudson County) 150 * note, school district consists of 6HS, 2MS, 30,ES Vineland (Cumberland County 147 * note, school district consists of 2HS, 6MS, 21,ES Franklin Township (Somerset County) 145 Camden City (Camden County) 133 * note, school district consists of 4HS, 4MS, 12,ES Plainfield (Union County) 119 Toms River Regional (Ocean County) 85 * note, school district consists of 3HS, 2MS, 12,ES Brick Township (Ocean County) 83 * note, school district consists of 2HS, 2MS, 7ES The South Orange - Maplewood School District was number 12 out of 284 Public School Districts in the entire State of New Jersey in the "fights" category. The South Orange - Maplewood School District was 5th out of 18 Essex County public school districts in the "simple assault" category. East Orange 93 Newark 78 Montclair 77 Belleville 29 South Orange- Maplewood 26 Irvington 15 The South Orange-Maplewood School District was number 36 out of 284 Public School Districts in the entire State of New Jersey in the "simple assault category. In the 2 other categories listed, "aggravated assault" and "bomb offences", The South Orange- Maplewood School District had zero offences listed. 211 out of 284 other school districts in NJ reported no "aggravated assaults" 205 out of 284 other school districts in NJ reported no "bomb offences" All statistics come from the New Jersey Department of Education, Commissionerâs Report to the Education Committees of the Senate and General Assembly, 1998-1999 Note from the report : "While statistics in this chart reflect crimes reported in all of any given districtâs schools, most student crimes take place at high schools. Thus weâve excluded school districts that do not include high schools. In the interest of consistency, weâve also excluded districts comprising only of specialized high schools." | ||
| Njjoseph |
It's interesting to note where Irvington fell in the above categories. | ||
| Bobk |
I saw this in the magazine a couple of weeks ago and have been waiting for someone to bring the subject up. The question that arises is how much of the activity is because of our "zero tolerance" policy and how much is that Columbia is truly among the most violent schools in the state? I have two kids at Columbia and neither feels unsafe. I have asked and am reasonably sure I am getting a straight answer on this. An aside. One of my kids friends, a Vegan, brought a paring knive to school to cut her delicious fruit and veggie lunch. When she pulled out the knive, she was suspended for bringing a weapon to school. Right? Wrong? | ||
| Ashear |
While I don't (yet) have a school age child, I do have a passing interest in crime statistics and I know how easily they are manipulated. It is interesting to note that the more serious the incident (and thus the more likely it is that the police were called and that the district felt compelled to make a report to the DOE) the lower SOM falls. It seems odd, to say the least, that a district with a significantly higher level of serious incidents would have a lower level of minor ones (e.g. SOMS has 2x the number of fights as Newark but Newark has 3x more simple assaults). One possible explanation for the disparity in "fights," the lowest level of violence, is the following from the appendix to the report: Standards for reporting a fight. Standards for reporting a fight are locally determined. Apply the definitions that accompany the form to your local standards. Moreover, it appears, though this is not entirely clear from my admittedly quick review, that the data is entirely self reported by the districts. While I do not know what the true level of violence in SOM or any other schools is, the data in the report must be looked upon with great skepticism given the apparent data collection methodology. The full report is at the NJDOE Website. This does not seem to have the data broken down by district. If anyone finds that let me know. | ||
| Nohero |
Ashear - You beat me to it. I had the same thoughts. The state's report was written based upon information provided by the districts themselves - in other words, on self-reported information. The online version of the report even provides examples of the forms which were to be filled out by the districts. I think it would be a good idea for people to take a step back and consider the source of this (or any other) information which is used to compare school districts. Let's be more concerned about specific, factual reports of incidents and concerns in our school, and address those. And, let's not always try to generate hysteria. | ||
| Ucnthndlthtruth |
Bobk: I was not aware of the South Orange - Maplewood School District utilizing a "zero tolerance" policy. As a matter of fact, I would be QUITE surprised if it did. But, I may be wrong so, please let me know where you received that information. As for standards being locally determined and self monitored. Yes, obviously this will have an effect on the data but it should have somewhat of an equal effect on all the data unless you believe that the South Orange - Maplewood School district is the only district out of 284 State wide reporting honestly. (some have suggested as much) As for generating hysteria. If bringing to light information from the New Jersey Department of Education regarding the schools our children attend is generating hysteria, then so be it. We have serious problems to deal with folks. Making believe they don't exist has never worked. | ||
| Nohero |
U: After reading your post, it seems we have a different way of defining terms. Your way of defining terms seems to be as follows: "Making believe problems don't exist" - If someone suggests that we make decisions based on facts, and not on a potentially misleading state report, you say that they are ignoring a serious situtation. Since we do not know how good the data is, which was used for the state's comparison report, we should not use this as a basis for shouting the allegation that this is one of the most violent school districts in the state. "Bringing to light information" - This is what you claim you are doing, by writing a summary of a state report, including statements in bold type (i.e., shouting) that assert that this is one of the most violent school districts, even though the data is questionable for comparison purposes. On the other hand, I would define "dealing with a problem" as follows: Determine the cause and extent of any problem by dealing with real facts, about actual incidents, and the actual steps needed to address them. | ||
| Ashear |
It seems to me that there are plenty of reasons to think that the skew from self reporting would be different in different districts. For example, the rather odd phenomenon of Newark having a higher rate of serious violence but a lower rate of minor violence could be explained by the fact that they have so many serious fights that don't bother to report a lot of the minor ones. In addition, some districts are almost certainly more image conscious than others and may chose to report fewer fights. Thus it makes no sense to say the self reporting has the same effect across the data. More important, the self definition cannot possibly have an even effect. If different districts have different definitions it has to skew the data. My point is not that there is not a problem. I don't know if there is or not. My point is that you can not tell with confidence whether there is a problem or how serious the problem may be in SOM based on this data. In a world of limited resources this is important information to have before investing resources in a problem that may not be real. Do people with kids in school think there is a problem? Are there things they think should be done that are not done. Is there in fact a zero tolerance policy? (Which I would not necessarily favor as it can have ridiculous consequences, see the paring knife story above.) | ||
| Bobk |
I am not saying that there is not a problem, only that I don't think it is as bad as the statistics make it sound. Another story, this one from MMS last year. On leaving a class my son accidentally tripped another boy (one of his best friends still) and the tripped kid took exception and chased my son. No blows were landed of any consequence and the whole thing was over in seconds. The result was a suspension. I bet this is in the statistics. My understanding is that we have a "zero tolerance" policy, I don't know if this is formal or not, but this is what my kids tell me. | ||
| Joso |
Give me a break. Anyone who honestly believes that Newark Schools have a 1/2 the number of fights as MSO is more off base than the recent snow forecasts. I would suggest that though there may be more fights per capita at MOS than some other suburban schools, the fact that MSO leads the list testifies to the schools exemplary response in identifying, reporting, and I would suspect, responding to school violence. | ||
| Alidah |
New Jersey Monthly is such a piece of crap I can't believe anyone takes their "polls" seriously. They can't publish a timely, important article to save their lives. They have to rely on their asinine "ranking" issues to sell magazines. Look at their stupid listing of the "best" towns in NJ. Kate Tomlinson opens up the issue apologising for not including her precious Summit, but them makes up for it by doing a decorating piece on one of her friends' houses. An aside, years ago when a friend worked there, she refused to let people put brown paper bag lunches in the fridge because the bags made the fridge work harder! | ||
| Ucnthndlthtruth |
Finally, concrete proof that the statistics from the New Jersey Department of Education, Commissioner's Report to the Education Committees of the Senate and General Assembly printed In New Jersey Monthly are not to be taken seriously ! | ||
| Nohero |
U: for the last time, they are not "statistics", they are "survey results". They are self-reported, not scientific, and not really useful for comparison purposes. Taken as a whole, they might be useful in assessing an overall trend statewide. However, given the method of gathering the information, the data should not be considered as a tool to be used as an "apples to apples" comparison of school districts. In the same way, one of the standard "products" which New Jersey Monthly offers is dubious "comparison" issues. Just because they draw certain conclusions from the state reports, does not make it so. | ||
| Ffof |
Nohero - Unfortunately, the masses do view these numbers as "statistics", thus our bad rap regarding our schools. No amount of PR will correct this unless our reported numbers start to tell a more positive story in comparison to other schools. | ||
| Nohero |
Ffof - What if our district followed a different strategy? Face the fact that there will always be "reported numbers", or "standardized test averages", that people will use for comparisons, fair or unfair they may be. Instead, counter these gross comparisons with specific information. I have kids in the high school and middle school, and I am always hearing about special achievements, honors, interesting activities and awards for students in those schools. However, I read very little about any of this in the local paper, or in the Star-Ledger. On the other hand, there is a terrific article about the adult school in the "In the Towns" section of the Ledger today, and its programs focused on successful writers who graduated from Columbia High. What if our publicity people for the district just (pardon the expression) got off their duffs, and started issuing more press releases and other information about great things going on in the schools? Tap into the great resource of established writers and news people who live in this community. In short, beat the "NJ Monthly" crowd at their own game. Just a thought. | ||
| Phyllis |
Ffof, Perhaps I'm misreading your comment. But it does sounds like you would support the policies I understand are in place in some of the best universities in this country .... instead of reporting on cases of rape and assault that happen on or near campus, they never self-report so that their public relations don't suffer. The result is that people aren't making informed decisions, everyone underestimates the extent to which these incidents occur and the schools that do try to do the right thing are penalized. I don't know if this is the case with our schools or not. But it definitely would be interesting to see other studies/reports with more meat to them. I remember reading comments on this board way back regarding assaults that happened at Columbia. I could not believe some of the comments! Do folks really really think this stuff happens here and not in wealthier, more affluent communities? I went to school in Bergen County in the 80s and I can remember lots of things that happened in my relatively small school. But no one talked about it. It's horrible beyond words and needs to be addressed in a way it is not currently. But to think you could leave SOMA and avoid it?!?! Perhaps these communities just have slicker PR strategies or residents who worry more about perceptions than reality! | ||
| Face |
Nohero, one cannot help but get the feeling that regardless of issues, you seem to side, (more than side you defend) with those in power on the local level on every issue. Just an observation, but clearly you must agree. | ||
| Nohero |
Face, I must disagree. For example (as it relates to the schools), see my comments on 1/26 at 9:33 and 5:26 here, on 2/1 at 11:40 here, and at the beginning and ending of the thread "No Soup for You!" If I seem to be "defending" something, maybe it is the community, and people who (IMHO) seem to be making a sincere effort to maintain and improve it. (By the way, I didn't know that I was defending the powers that be by suggesting that they "get off their duffs".) | ||
| Ffof |
Definitely we need more of that good PR. I know there is great stuff going on in the schools. I've got a middle schooler and kids in elementary and lots of friends with kids in the high school. They're all doing great stuff. The achievements are spectacular, really. But no matter how much I personally might go on about this to friends in neighboring communities, and even friends here in maplewood with pre-schoolers, they have their own pre-conceived notions. Also, I have heard many times how MSO is very "honest" in their reporting of numbers, etc, but other schools are not. one example recently discussed here on the board was the length of day - Columbia reported their day as 6 hours (i don't know if this is the exact number) where as other schools said 6 3/4 which would have included the lunch period. So in the end it looks like we give less instruction time. What is the right thing to do? There's no question we have a lot to flaunt, but do we currently pay someone at the BOE to do this and do this properly? Or does that cost too much money? | ||
| Ffof |
Phyllis- I'm not supporting anything. My post above just tells it like it is (currently). Maybe it's a combination of better scores AND better pr that will get us the respect we need. But as long as NJ monthly does it's thing, we're still "screwed"...unless something happens to bring our ranking inching back upward. (better scores and other districts being as honest as we are could help) | ||
| Spw784 |
Ffof - There is a PR person. Her name is Judy Levy. She is listed right under the Superintendents name on the administration page: http://www.somsd.k12.nj.us/admin.htm | ||
| Goodolddays |
To everyone on this post.....May I submit a comment or 2-3. Back in the 1960's..Columbia High School (CHS)had a rating that matched Junior Colleges within NJ. Youngsters moving in from the large cities such as Newark doing straight A's had to work hard just to hold onto a B average... As far as CHS and reported acts of violence etc. the key words are "reported acts". Since CHS has total control over what goes on at CHS, even to allowing local law enforcement inside ..upon ivitation that is...how can anyone exect the so called STATS to be accurate and true. How does the saying go..."Walk up and smell the coffee". | ||
| Goodolddays |
..pardon the typo....WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE. |
