| Author | Message | ||
     Fringe |
Comparing the combined performance of South Orange - Maplewwod School District 4th Graders on the Spring 1999 & Spring 2000 Elementary School Proficiency Assessment (ESPA) in Language Arts Literacy with those of all school districts in South Orange-Maplewood School District's ocio-economic grouping (District Factor Group I) the rankings are: * LANGUAGE ARTS - Partially Proficient 1999 - Of 456 SO-M students, 31.8% scored PARTIALLY PROFICIENT compared to 17.2% of the 16,392 DFG I 4th Graders. Three of 89 DFG I districts had a greater percentage of 4th graders scoring PARTIALLY PROFICIENT. 2000 - Of 438 SO-M students 36.1% scored PARTIALLY PROFICIENT compared to 18.7% of the 16,152 DFG I 4th Graders. Two of 88 DFG I districts had a greater percentage of 4th graders scoring PARTIALLY PROFICIENT. * LANGUAGE ARTS - Advanced Proficient 1999 - Of 456 SO-M students, 5.9% scored ADVANCED PROFICIENT compared to 6.3% of the 16,392 DFG I 4th Graders. 38 of 89 DFG I districts had a greater percentage of 4th graders scoring ADVANCED PROFICIENT than SO-M. 2000 - Of 438 SO-M students 6.4% scored ADVANCED PROFICIENT compared to 9.3% of the 16,152 DFG I 4th Graders. 56 of 88 DFG I districts had a greater percentage of 4th gradders scoring ADVANCED PROFICIENT than SO-M. * LANGUAGE ARTS - MEAN 1999 - The 456 SO-M students had a MEAN score of 210 compared to a MEAN of 217.8 for the 16,392 DFG I 4th Graders. 82 of 89 DFG I districts had a higher MEAN score than SO-M. One district had the same MEAN as SO-M. 2000 - The 438 SO-M students had a MEAN score of 206.7 compared to MEAN of 216.9 for the 16,152 DFG I 4th Graders. 78 of 88 DFG I districts had a higher MEAN score than SO-M. DFG GH Compared with the 66 districts with elementary schools (including SO-M) in DFG GH, the next lower socio-economic grouping, the rankings are: * LANGUAGE ARTS - Partially Proficient 1999 - Of 456 SO-M students, 31.8% scored PARTIALLY PROFICIENT compared to 24.4% of the 12,157 DFG GH 4th Graders. 9 of 66 DFG GH districts had a greater percentage of students scoring PARTIALLY PROFICIENT than SO-M. 2000 - Of 438 SO-M students 36.1% scored PARTIALLY PROFICIENT compared to 27.4% of the 11,924 DFG GH 4th Graders. 12 of 66 DFG GH districts had a greater percentage of students scoring PARTIALLY PROFICIENT than SO-M. * LANGUAGE ARTS - Advanced Proficient 1999 - Of 456 SO-M students, 5.9% scored ADVANCED PROFICIENT compared to 4.1% of the 12,157 DFG GH 4th Graders. 19 of 66 DFG GH districts had a greater percentage of students scoring ADVANCED PROFICIENT than SO-M. One district had the same percentage as SO-M. 2000 - Of 438 SO-M students 6.4% scored ADVANCED PROFICIENT compared to 4.9% of the 11,924 DFG GH 4th Graders. 19 of 66 DFG GH districts had a greater percentage of students scoring ADVANCED PROFICIENT than SO-M. * LANGUAGE ARTS - MEAN 1999 - The 456 SO-M students had a MEAN score of 210 compared to a MEAN of 212.6 for the 12,157 DFG GH 4th Graders. 43 of 66 DFG GH districts had a higher MEAN score than SO-M. Three districts had the same MEAN. 2000 - The 438 SO-M students had a MEAN score of 206.7 compared to MEAN of 210.4 for the 11,94 DFG GH 4th Graders. 48 of 66 DFG GH districts had a higher MEAN score than SO-M. Data taken from the NJ Report Card and the "May 1999 [and 2000] Elementary SchoolProficiency Assessment (ESPA) State Summary" published by the NJ Department of Education in December 1999 & January 2001. Scores of Special Education and Limited English Proficient students were not included in the calculations. Scores were reported as: "Partially Proficient (100-199)", "Proficient (250-249)", "Advanced Proficient (250-300)" JTL | ||
| Chuck |
What does the District Factor Grouping mean/ Could you put more of an interpretive spin on these results--do these results mean in other towns of he same socio economic status, SOMA kids at this level are below average? | ||
| Chuck |
What does the District Factor Grouping mean/ Could you put more of an interpretive spin on these results--do these results mean in other towns of he same socio economic status, SOMA kids at this level are below average? | ||
| Nakaille |
Chuck, I think it is supposed to be connected to the SES but there has been a lot of controversy as to whether we are in the right DFG. JTL's point has often been that even compared to a DFG one lower, we are not in great shape score-wise. Some people think scores are very important, some do not. Bacata | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
Most people think scores are important, some do not. But, when reality, as in scores, proves educational policy and local curricula are failing students, then scores do not count. DWM | ||
| Nan |
Dead, After reading your posts on school violence last week (...and now ladies and gentlemen, for a more moderate opinion may I present Vlad the Impaler...), it is almost refreshing to return once again to the repetitive comfort of MSO's version of "The Reading Wars." And I think the ESPAs are an especially interesting venue for this discussion since they put your usual responses to these discussions in something of a tight situation. The ESPAs, which have not been around for very long, primarily test how a student uses knowledge (ie. higher order thinking skills such as inferencing, analysis and evaluation), not amount of basic concrete information. To improve scores on this test our district must emphasize more "active learner" activities, such as evaluation of literature, not memorizing spelling/grammar rules. This is not a test teachers can cram into students for two weeks before. The concepts evaluated must be an integral part of the curriculum. I suspect our district has an ongoing review of this test and is making changes accordingly (I hope so, but I have no knowledge of this). So, Dead, following your usual recommendations (and links) for returning to a skills-based curriculum would only lead to even lower scores. I'm curious how this information affects your perception of the importance of school scores? | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
Nan must have a lot of time on her hands, and relies upon the fact that most others both 1) don't, and 2) haven't read and understood enough to reply and counter the party line. I merely point to the scores. It is the scores stupid. We have wholeheartedly adopted her Rousseau [ian?] vision of learning, nationwide, and only the best students can consistently rise above the mediocrity it offers. So, readers, do your homework, read and observe; I have posted enough information about websites and articles, have read the K-2 and 3-5 curricula, observed what is taught, am no longer a teacher, and conclude with: Idealism without pragmatism is the formula for disaster. DWM | ||
| Mck |
Hi Dead! Speaking of Rousseau, you'll enjoy this: http://www.edmatters.org/2001sp/34.html | ||
| Marie |
MCK, After reading this article, the Carrot Curriculum makes perfect sense! | ||
| Nan |
Dead, Finally I agree with you!: "Idealism without pragmatism is the formula for disaster." Great quote. Who did you steal it from? That is exactly why I think you need to reconsider your "Norman Rockwell" vision of the schools that might be if only the horrid ogre of literature-based education were smote from the earth (..and I'm the romantic????). Given the reality that current testing practices have moved on to the needs of the 21st century, I think maybe it is time you do too. | ||
| Nan |
Mck, I read your link. E.D. Hirsch's aversion to anything "natural" is what you would expect from a man who wants to package culture (Kultur) into uniform-sized packaged chunks of fact-based knowledge, sort of like a large bag of Kibbles-And-Bits (all the nutrition you need in one bag!). In this market oriented scheme, Hirsch proclaims he knows what every child is supposed to learn, and then by riding the educational wave of the culture wars ("cowabunga, dude!) tries to sell it to school districts as the easy way to implement an educational plan- a "Curriculum for Dummies". I actually own a few of his books, and some of them are fun, like the Dictionary of Cultural Literacy". You can flip through and see how much you know. Let's see, hmmm, "personal computer" yeah, I know that one. Check." Persian Gulf War," Oh, yeah, I almost forgot! Check! Ah, here's one that brings back memories; "sow wild oats." Fun! Check! "Stalingrad, Battle of" oh yeah, the husband read a book on that. Check! Just the way you want your kids to learn in school, right? What is so annoying is that in his extreme ambition to universally implement this "curriculum" of basic knowledge, he must first blow to smithereens the credibility of anyone he feels stands in his way. His example of the failure of the Disney Celebration School is a case in point. I read a book about the whole town (Celebration, U.S.A.--written by a couple who moved there with their children) which described the conflicts between the school and the community in detail. The curriculum in this school was something of an atypical freak show. Even I read the description, and said, "What were they thinking?" The multi-aged class he criticizes them for is not the two-grade combination found at Seth Boyden, but first graders in the same classroom with sixth graders (that's a good way to reign in school costs, right?). The students' curricula were organized around six-week research projects that were bereft of clearly stated objectives, explicit and implicit skills instruction and supervision. Hirsch attacks this model as a typically misguided, representative product of teachers, administrators and distinguished professors (Why do conservatives constantly attack intellectuals?). Clearly, this is as much a typical school, as pitchfork attacks are a typical personal crime! What is also unusual about the school is that it was also only attended by a very specific kind of person--the kind that would be willing to give up everything (including a certain degree of personal freedom of choice) and move to a town manufactured by Walt Disney! This is certainly a dramatic example to use in a speech, but it is not a fair one to evaluate an approach to schooling. In Hirsch's limited, and limiting marketplace of educational pedagogy and ideas, he attempts to become the Machiavelli of cultural and educational literacy. Hegemony anyone? He labels his opponents, as misguided individuals who have abused the public trust in their romantic and religious pursuit of educational opportunity, yet he himself clearly wants to play God. It is a strange hypocrisy and he certainly stands out from the run-of-the-mill phonics ideologue. But he might be worse. | ||
| Mck |
Nan: "Kultur" ?? On the grounds that it never pays to argue with anyone who uses Nazi metaphors, i'll just post this link to the Coreknowledge site (cyber hate?) and let anyone who is interested decide for themselves. http://www.coreknowledge.org/ | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
Nan: I stole it from myself! Can't a dead White male have any insight into what ails the living? You have been granted a non-revocable license to quote me, without attribution. When I figure out that truth, the quote, not the license, it seemed so simple. But, so difficult to accept. Now, having seen the white light, I am at peace. DWM | ||
| Mck |
As long as we're talking about core knowledge, I guess I should have said, let anyone who is interested decide for herself. Nan: Hirsch describes himself as a political liberal and educational conservative. He's allowed to attack intellectuals: he is one, himself. Professor of English at U. of VA, with a PH.d from Yale. | ||
| Nilmiester |
Mck- The newer residents may think that is an oxymoron, you know, intellectual and conservative.  | ||
| Ffof |
Nan- Just an extra tidbit of info in regards to something you mentioned above... The multi-age classrooms found at Seth Boyden are also found at Marshall. They were started at Marshall 6 years ago by then principal, Pat Browne. One of the original teachers of this program from Marshall transferred to Seth Boyden last September to start the program there. Of course, multi-age classrooms like we have here are not new to education. But the Disney scenario, like you said, hmmmm, what were they thinking, 1850's prairie school house?! | ||
| Twig |
Is it just me or it this conservative vs. liberal thing becoming reminiscent of Spy vs. Spy from Mad Magazine? I am always amazed at how avowed "conservatives" seem so quick to dismiss and belittle almost any perceived liberal notion as being naive or insipid "fluff" and how dyed-in-the-wool "liberals" can sudenly turn into thought suppression police at the very airing of a conservative perspective (discrediting them by the interesting device of ascribing to them fascist characterizations). Are people in this thread arguing the actual points/facts or is it more a duel of dogmatic ideologies? Oh well, maybe it's just my own lack of conviction on such matters coming through. I used to hate taking "true-false" tests because I could always think of something that might make either response the "partially correct" one. Come to think of it, perhaps that's the case here... | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
Spoiling the fun, Twig? How about your opinion(s)? DWM | ||
| Nan |
BINGO, Twig! The "reading wars" have very little to do with reading and everything to do with politics! Here is a link to concise history of the battle (from the non thought-police side!): http://www.readingonline.org/past/past_index.asp?HREF=/critical/ACT.html It is a little bit dated (1998, I think), but it serves well to illustrate what is really going on here beneath the murky waters of Nan vs. Dead, Nan vs. Mck, Nan vs. Marie, and some other vs. too! | ||
| Ucnthndlthtruth |
When you realize how much time and effort our current BOE et al spend downplaying the scores and other indicators* of failure it's more like reason vs. emotion. (* comparitive results are only to be used when placing the school system in a favorable light such as fencing and basketball championships) "For example, test-bashing wouldn't be so popular if progressive theories about education didn't resonate somehow with widespread American beliefs about children and learning. One can understand why progressives should want to bash tests, when their methods consistently fail to improve test scores. But why should others accept the disparagement of, say, reading tests, which are among the most valid and reliable of existing instruments?" - Hirsch | ||
| Twig |
DWM - Since you asked: I believe that most academic learning, no matter the subject, is comprised of first developing a set of fundamental knowledge and skills and then developing a set of higher order reasoning, thinking, and organizing skills to enable the student to utilize that set of fundamental knowledge. But you need to have both. Encouraging a child to acquire knowledge without teaching them the ability to process and present that knowledge is as useless as teaching them higher order skills but ignoring the need for them to have the basics. With respect to reading, by no means am I an expert but I do have a child in elementary school who is developing his reading skills. I am glad that he was exposed to phonics in pre-school and kindergarten. Like many children, he has a volcabulary that exceeds the words he's actually seen in print. When he encounters a word he doesn't know, his ability to "sound out" the word leads to many Eureka moments as he realizes that he knows what the word is, he just hasn't seen it written before. I do notice that his friends who did not receive much phonics instruction get stuck when they come across words they don't know and they need to have someone tell them what the word is. They are a bit less able to work on their own. Conversely, he does come across words that have multiple meanings and can mean or sound differently depending on the context and those can confuse him. For example, the word "appropriate" can be an adjective, as in "appropriate behavior", or as a verb, as in "to appropriate funds". (did I do that correctly???) In those situations, using the whole language approach of context consideration is really valuable. I do, however, feel that one can teach this in a skill-based format. Why can't students practice their skills in looking at and analyzing sentence parts, contiguous sentences, and paragraphs to ascertain the context? Can't that skill be taught and refined? Finally, let's not put all of the responsibility for learning on the teacher. Agreed that good teachers are probably the most important factor, but the motivation of the student and his parents, and the attitudes of peers are also very critical. Blaming a teacher for why Johnny can't read may not be fair unless that teacher hasn't done all that he/she could. We also have to hold Johnny and his parents accountable for Johnny's learning. Anyway, sorry that this isn't as "theoretical" as prior posts and is rambling on and on to no logical conclusion. Rather, these are just the thoughts of a parent participating in his son's journey to reading. | ||
| Shakespeare |
DWM, you really shouldn't go around inventing your own quotes. It shows a use of creativity, which Hirsch does not favor. Please provide us with uniform, widely known aphorisms so that we may understand one another fully and participate in the enjoyment of this conversation. | ||
| Nohero |
BOE Candidates' Forum: While folks are on the subject, there is a School Board Candidates' Forum tonight from 7:30 PM - 9:30 PM. It is being sponsored by the Hilton and Midland Park Neighborhood Associations, and is being held at the Maplewood Community Center at Dehart Park. |
