| Author |
Message |
    
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 227
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 - 10:20 pm: |     |
Why compare George W. Bush to Adolph Hitler?
If Moveon.org wants to compare Adolf Hitler to someone else who slaughtered people, how about Saddam Hussein? What a bunch of desperate liberals. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6057
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 - 10:25 pm: | |
You're misrepresenting things. Moveon.org didn't do that.
But now you are. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6062
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 12:01 am: | |
Here's a story about a Republican ad running in Iowa. The high point is this part:
quote:"Howard Dean should take his tax-hiking, government-expanding, latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo-driving, New York Times-reading ..." before the farmer's wife then finishes the sentence: "... Hollywood-loving, left-wing freak show back to Vermont, where it belongs."
Apparently the spot comes off more like a parody of itself than serious criticism. I wonder if they'd run the same spot if Rudy were in the race? |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1731
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 9:54 am: | |
New York Times: $1
Latte at Starbucks: $3.50
Annual Federal Deficit: $1,000,000,000,000
Knowing that your buddies at Bechtel and Halliburton are cleaning up: priceless |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2549
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 10:04 am: | |
One way ticket to Paris: $289.00
 |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1150
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 10:23 am: | |
"I am Rudy Giuliani, you must do what I say."
- Homer Simpson's political ad.
There is. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 641
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 1:06 pm: | |
tom, no one would take a democrat ad professing concern about the national debt or deficit seriously because they never have taken it seriously in their lifetime. |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6072
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 1:12 pm: | |
Actually, it's fairly central to Democratic principles of paying as you go (even if it means by taxes) instead of Republican bonding (let future generations pay, even if that means the bill will be a lot higher). |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 592
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 1:16 pm: | |
Moveon.org said the ad "slipped by" or wasn't "screened properly". They are not backing it. They are inept so ignore them. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 642
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 1:30 pm: | |
If it is a central principle to democrats (which I'd strongly argue against), no one is sticking by it in today's current crop of Dem presidential contenders. As for let future generations pay, I direct your attention to social security and medicare.
Another day, another thread.
|
1-2many
Citizen
Username: Wbg69
Post Number: 835
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 2:29 pm: | |
it is not a moveon.org ad, it was an ad submitted by a user in an ad contest.
and don't the Republicans have Nazi egg on their own faces, what with Grover Norquist's outrageous comparison of the estate tax to the Holocaust?
oh, and in case you were wondering if Vietnam-style abuses by soldiers might be going on in Iraq, like I kind of was:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3370979.stm |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 644
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 3:09 pm: | |
Nazi comparisons are usually poorly done, but the three egg omelettes currently rest on the Left side with:
moveon.org ads
Hillary's stereotypical Indian comments
Dean's 'most interesting Bush 9/11 theory
Nice try equating a couple groin kicks to Mi Lai. Submit that to Moveon.org. Title it "Rumsfeld's Military and Typical US Imperialism." |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 242
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 3:14 pm: | |
Let's title this one "Shoulda listened to Daddy"
"Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."
- George H.W. Bush (Bush senior) and Brent Scowcroft in their 1998 book, A World Transformed.
|
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 645
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 4:16 pm: | |
They couldn't do that, as this same bunch supported UN mandate-less Kosovo action. It would work for the Pat Buchanan crowd and democrats with selective memory, but that's about it. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 109
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 4:22 pm: | |
Reminds me of the Republican ads (yes, ads, not competition submissions) that morphed Vietnam vet Max Cleland into Osama bin Laden and another that morphed Daschle into Saddam.
Not that conservatives do this sort of thing. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1735
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 4:41 pm: | |
After years of reading about conservatives' moral absolutism, it's always refreshing to see how the double standard lives on. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 593
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 4:51 pm: | |
Yes, there is a double standard. If a Republican made the comments Hillary did, they would call for his/her job. |
Michaela May
Citizen
Username: Mayquene
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 5:34 pm: | |
Perhaps they would demand the person resign if they were a candidate who historically backed something like segretation and therefore might actually believe such a stereotype.
Like I said, she admitted she was wrong and apologized. Why not move on, already? |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 655
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 2:58 pm: | |
Hillary does support segregation. She's against school choice for black school kids in failing urban school districts. |
Michaela May
Citizen
Username: Mayquene
Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 3:24 pm: | |
Are you actually arguing that anyone opposes school vouchers is a segregationist? |
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6097
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 4:49 pm: | |
Like draining money out of public schools is an answer to improved education and like there will be be enough money in vouchers to actually allow low income families to begin entertaining the idea of paying up the difference. total sham. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 598
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 5:25 pm: | |
All schools are not created equal and not all run by reputable people despite what monies come in. There is much money wasted in Abbott districts without any improvement. If I was an Irvington parent, I would welcome a voucher to attend a Millburn school. What's wrong with that? |
Tom Reingold
Citizen
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 1675
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 5:26 pm: | |
I just noticed that some of the videos that moveon is referring us to have the moveon.com logo. Maybe that was unauthorized, but I have to agree that their screening and disclaimers were inadequate.
Tom Reingold the prissy-pants
There is nothing
|
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2672
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 9:34 pm: | |
"If I was an Irvington parent, I would welcome a voucher to attend a Millburn school. What's wrong with that?"
Except for the fact that, even if the "school choice" partisans got what they wanted, it is highly unlikely that such a voucher would ever exist ... |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 600
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 9:41 pm: | |
Okay how about Our Lady of Sorrows then? What is the voucher for? |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2674
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 9:45 pm: | |
The point is, it's better to improve the schools for all. The voucher path doesn't do that. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 601
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 10:41 pm: | |
Too many variables and obstacles out of anyone's control and they cannot be overcome by throwing money at them. Sometimes a better environment works. |
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 248
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 11:02 pm: | |
"it's better to improve the schools for all."
Ok Nohero, I am not certain of what it is you're suggesting, but if you know of something that will make the schools better for everyone, I'm game. Please tell.
You speak so matter of factly on this that it demands a response. We're all waiting. (And no links please)
|
Dave Ross
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6101
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 11:42 pm: | |
Well the path to better schools isn't paved by taking money and resources away from public schools. |
Ainsworth Hunt
Citizen
Username: Ainsworth
Post Number: 133
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 8:50 am: | |
The following link leads to a very large video file "911 The Road to Tyranny." While this does not have the funny punch of the Bush in 30 Seconds ads, the content of the video is very thought provoking.
http://www.c0balt.com/resources/911/download.shtml |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 602
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 9:51 am: | |
"Well the path to better schools isn't paved by taking money and resources away from public schools." This kind of thinking pinholes less fortunate students that don't live in affluent areas to continual failure regardless of funding issues. There are other factors involved besides money. Abbott districts are better funded than we are. Let's try to think out of the box on this one and be creative. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2678
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 11:59 am: | |
Unfortunately, one of the "pro-voucher" arguments is "Our opponents want to keep kids in failing schools." That's just wrong, of course, and it doesn't help address the real problem of failing schools. Some students may move to a different school, but others will be at the same old (failing) school. That still leaves the problem of a failing school and students who still need an education. So, focus all the energy on improving the schools which are now serving these students.
Look, government can barely make "choice" work for competition in sales of electricity to homes. Sometimes competition is not the best solution to a problem. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 658
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 12:42 pm: | |
The only recent improvement in public schools is because of the threat of choice, failure (meaning out of business) and someone losing their job.
Choice already exists and is exercised by the rich like Hillary (Sidwell Friends) and others who scrape up enough to eek there kids into a better school. School board members don't even send their kids to public schools in many cases.
Public schools still get the tax dollars from those parents, and the schools still fail despite a reduction in their blessed class-size that people mistakenly view as a savior.
Hey...others at that 'failing' school will eventually leave it and take their tax money to a place where they will succeed.
Improving schools for all? Liberalism is about making everyone equally miserable, not raising everyone up. Soon as someone makes progress, you tax or redistribute or screw around with their success and bring them down because it's not fair that someone should exceed others accomplishments. Equality on the left is about results, not opportunity, and that's a loser way to go about it.
Right...and no one, NO ONE sends their kid to a private school so 'they' (pick a group) don't pollute the education of their kids. Never happens in a city like....Boston? DC? Please....
Sorry for the thread drift, guys. I started this. My bad. But I'm rather passionate about it.
|
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1750
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 2:34 pm: | |
Rather stupid about it, too. You really think we want people to be miserable?
You really think that liberal initiatives like abolishing slavery and child labor made the public more miserable?
You really think that liberal initiatives like equal rights for women and minorities aren't about opportunity?
You really think that the results of initiatives like public power, social security and medicare are bad? |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 603
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 2:40 pm: | |
Why do so many liberal politicians send their children to private school?
Because they can. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 662
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 3:09 pm: | |
I'll give the clueless left the benefit of the doubt. They thought they were helping minorities with the welfare state and ended up wiping out their family structure.
Lincoln -- the liberal.
Right...and conservatives are against equal rights for US citizens.
And Social Security and Medicare were also well intended, but fiscally impractical and not at all effective in terms of providing for a decent retirement.
Liberals are so into equal rights for minorities that they can't field a minority candidate for high national office. Or even support some lowly gubernatorial candidate in NY.
Empower minorities, tom. Give them the same 'right' that rich white people have and let them have school choice. Then they can be as brilliant as you are.
|
Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 254
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 9, 2004 - 5:17 pm: | |
Nohero, I politely asked for you to provide us with your knowledge of something that will make the schools better for everyone. I asked because you stated as much. Yet your subsequent post does not offer such a method. Instead your next post attempts to pin blame on those who seek vouchers using a negative.
More frustrating still is your last statement, "government can barely make "choice" work for competition in sales of electricity to homes. Sometimes competition is not the best solution to a problem."
It leads me to ask are you a socialist?
Regardless, I ask again nicely that you try to respond to my original request. Thank you.
|
jamie
Moderator
Username: Jamie
Post Number: 428
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 8:40 pm: | |
CBS censors MoveOn.org ad:
http://www.moveon.org/cbs/ad/ |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2125
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 9:31 pm: | |
Cjc,
Your wrote:
"I'll give the clueless left the benefit of the doubt. They thought they were helping minorities with the welfare state and ended up wiping out their family structure.
"
That makes no sense. If all Americans had had access to jobs that paid a living wage, Johnson would not have pushed through the Great Society program. We wouldn't have needed it.
Read your history. A lack of jobs destroys the fabric of society. People feel worthless and before long, they start to act worthless.
Johnson's Great Society was an attempt to remedy the destruction caused by a lack of economic opportunity.
The Great Society program didn't solve the problem. However, it did not, as the Republican dogma of ignorance would have one believe, cause the problem. |
Mayhewdrive
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 730
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 9:54 pm: | |
CNN has had no problem airing the ad. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:41 pm: | |
If throwing money at the problem isn't the solution for schools, why is it the answer for jobs? Should we really be slashing taxes for the already well-to-do in the hopes that they'll create jobs? Isn't that just throwing money at the problem?
Heh. No, it's throwing money at your friends, if you're George Bush. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10642
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:55 pm: | |
Tom,
Is a 35k per year single mother well to do? Did you see my example last week about Ms. Single Mom who is going to see a 20% reduction in her tax bill?
Please let us know when you're going to allow some facts to be interjected into your anti-Bush rhetoric.
Thankey.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
|
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10643
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:59 pm: | |
A true story:
Sbenois goes to Kings in Feb/Mar and encounters anti-war protesters. Sbenois is asked to explain his position on the potential war. Sbenois is then told that
We fought Hitler, why shouldn't we fight Bush
In April of 2003, on the UPS/Fedex box (whatever it is) in front of the Burgdorf/ old Klein office, someone who clearly doesn't know a damn thing about history wrote:
Bush = (drawn swastika}
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
|
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:36 pm: | |
there are whack jobs on both sides. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 379
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:26 pm: | |
Well, the Republicans supported Hitler during the thirties, so perhaps the analogy is not so bad.
No one from Europe or the Commonwealth will ever forget how hard it was for Roosevelt to overcome the Republicans and other isolationists, who would have happily seen Hitler and Mussolini triumphant.
It's encouraging to see that some Americans are still willing to stand up for the principles the country was founded on. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 637
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 9:26 pm: | |
A Republican president freed the slaves if you want to play that game. Graffiti that equates our president with a swastika is not standing up for any principles nor is it encouraging.
Ffof - there are definitely whackos on both sides but in these parts, they are lefty lunatics. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2792
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 10:42 pm: | |
I can think of a few right-wing wackos around these parts ...
But seriously, nobody should compare Bush to Hitler.
And the President should stop trying to imply that people who disagree with him are unpatriotic.
Fair's fair, y'know. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 386
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 11:05 pm: | |
It's amazing how far back you have to look to find a Republican President that actually stood for progress instead of reaction.
I'm glad you could find one, though. Honest Abe is a refreshing contrast to the pathological liars we've been getting lately. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 638
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 9:56 am: | |
There are more illegal students in our school district than right winged wackos in town.
How many lefty lunatics? Count the Vote Bush Out signs for starters. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2795
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 9:59 am: | |
Okay, so anybody who may vote against President Bush in the election is a "lefty lunatic"? In that case, "lefty lunatics" may constitute a majority of the country right now. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 639
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
No, Nohero. Plenty of people will not vote for Bush in November. The lunatic part is that these people are advertising it by putting a sign on their lawn a year before the election. Weirdos.
|
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 390
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 1:50 pm: | |
Weirdos ?. As far as I'm concerned anyone who thinks that the countries going in the wrong direction (left or right) and is vocal (or in this case visual) about it, is patriotic. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 641
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 2:15 pm: | |
Yes, I forgot about my giant Impeach Clinton sign that I had on my lawn for 8 years. I wasn't a weirdo, just bitterly patriotic. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 114
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 4:00 pm: | |
"Bitterly patriotic." That's fantastic. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 645
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 4:06 pm: | |
Thanks. I never liked negative advertising, it's says a lot. |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page