| Author |
Message |
    
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 128
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 3:10 pm: |     |
Sorry Ash
I was referring to the mention of flight attendants and such being armed. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 373
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 5:44 pm: | |
Why would the pilot be more effective with a sidearm than a flight attendant?
Does an air force pilot get any more firearms training than, say, an army supply clerk or a navy dentist? |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 267
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 8:32 pm: | |
And the answer is, most people, pilots and flight attendants, who are trained to operate a sidearm proficiently, are also taught judgement in using them. Citizens not proficient or familiar are natually nervous around firearms. Some on this thread seem that way.
If terrorists attempt to take over a plane, it will be quick and violent. Passengers either respond quickly and violently or the plane will be a flying aimed bomb.
Sorry I saw the planes hit the towers and saw them come down.
We've seen the vicious persistent nature of the enemy and I can't believe the denial on this thread.
What steps indeed do you think we should take on flight to prevent another 9/11?
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Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 268
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 8:40 pm: | |
Monty
yes a pilot gets alot more training in using weapons the navy dentist or army supply clerk.
The dentist almost none, and the supply clerk gets it in basic and qualifies annually, or more frequently depending on the combat readiness of the unit. IE supply clerks in airborne units are jump qualified, and must make x jumps a year, they will also range fire more often then garrison troops.
The pilot who may eject is well motivated to be very effective with his/her sidearm.
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tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2110
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
I disagree that military pilots receive meaningful firearms training. They are well-trained on their aircraft weapons systems, but their 9 mm sidearm is really only for those cases where they are down in enemy territory.
Law-enforcement officers, OTOH, are specifically trained to make quick target decisions so that they are less-likely to shoot the wrong person in those cases where they are forced to use a gun.
I think the push to arm pilots is smoke and mirrors - a placebo if you will. If the threat is that real, then put armed, anonymous sky marshals on a large number of flights. That will make it really difficult for somebody to plan and execute a hijacking. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 375
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 10:52 pm: | |
The average group of airline passengers is not going to react "quickly and violently".
You can't even get out of an airline seat quickly, let alone do violence to someone who likely has a lot more practice fighting than you have.
Do us all a favor and take the bus next time. And stay away from those action movies.
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bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4386
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 8:40 am: | |
The thought of having flight attendants armed really scares me. They are mingling with the passengers and could easily be overcome by one or two hijackers, who then have a pistol to play with.
I haven't been flying much the last couple of years because a change in my job. However, I am sure 'Guess the SkyMarshal" is played on most flights. If truly anoymous they are a great deterient. If easily identified, they can be neutralized by a guy with a box cutter.
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mellie
Citizen
Username: Mellie
Post Number: 377
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 2:09 pm: | |
why doesn't newone want everyone armed on the plane, since he is na NRA apolgista ?
and yet he wants everyone on the ground to be armed... bit a paradox there old pal
I would think that there are many non-firearm alternatives; and surely keeping the door locked is the most important
hey cowboy, if the pilot's a shootin' and a hollerin', who's flyin' the dadgum plane ? |
Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6228
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 2:12 pm: | |
 |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 289
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 7:03 pm: | |
Dave
Is that Howard Dean in a political profile moment? |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2818
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 9:17 pm: | |
No. Howard Dean is "Yee-ah!"
Major Kong from "Dr. Strangelove" is "Waaaa-Hooo!"
There's a big difference, y'know. |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 295
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 9:56 pm: | |
Ok
who are the YaaHoos? |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 130
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 3:30 pm: | |
Sorry Nellie - not in the NRA - please try again.
Didn't ever say "everyone" on the ground should be armed but again, we see your anti agenda and I'm done arguing with you on this subject.
BTW- what you asked Cowboy - there is someone called a "co-pilot."
ESBAM |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 394
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 2, 2004 - 8:29 pm: | |
This is a matter of simple common sense. You don't put amateur gun users like airline pilots up against professional gun users, i.e. a group of terrorists that have prepared intensively for their attack.
There are better stategies, that's all.
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Cowboy
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 328
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 2:47 pm: | |
Here are two more links:
This one about a home invader.
http://www.therolladailynews.com/articles/2004/02/09/news/news2.txt
And this one for everyone to try.
http://www.flashbunny.org/content/whatguns.html
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Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 418
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 11:26 pm: | |
And your point is? |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4633
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 7:59 am: | |
This is shameful. Couldn't he have just shot the gun out of the guys hand instead of killing him?
I hope they throw the book at the homeowner and don't allow him to appeal his death sentence. After all justice delayed is justice denied!! |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 701
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 8:49 am: | |
Unfortunately when you aim a gun at someone your intention is to “Stop them”. It’s difficult to do a surgical strike with a handgun; you aim for the middle of the chest because it’s the biggest target. The days of shooting a gun out of a persons hand is long gone. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 423
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 11:43 pm: | |
Statistics from a variety of sources show very clearly that guns in the home increase your risk of accidental death far more than any protection they might offer.
Of course, there are exceptional cases, and someone being threatened by a mentally unstable neighbor might want to arm themselves in self-defense.
This isn't an argument against gun control, however, since a properly functioning system would prevent the mentally unstable neighbor from getting a gun in the first place.
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mellie
Citizen
Username: Mellie
Post Number: 393
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 9:10 am: | |
also it shows a failure in the system that the police tried but failed to arrest the guy.
still newone, why don't you call up the family of Jayson Williams chauffer and tell them how they are benefitting from the NRAs interpretation of the 2nd amendment
didn't think so
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newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 131
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:59 pm: | |
Boy you sure have one big hard-on for the NRA. Face it, you just don't like people who have guns no matter how law abiding they may be. Can't have a rational discussion with you since you already have a prejudice as we've all seen. I've tried to talk clearly, provide links etc. and all you can come back with is NRA lapdog or something to that effect. So please provide a clear link to the NRA's interpretation of the 2nd amendment - not scholars or judges but the NRA since you seem to think they have their own interpretation. Thanks.
As for Williams - if it was up to me he should burn in the chair for what he did. Plus he disobeyed the first rule of gun ownership (being supposedly drunk didn't help either)"always assume the gun is loaded." I'm sure you'll respond with a witty anti-NRA comment.
BTW - I won't be able to spar with you for awhile - gotta look for a job.
ESBAM |
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