| Author | Message | ||
     Bshears |
Nohero, how long can you feel good about an "outlook"? When will the outlook on Springfield Ave. become a reality? It sure sounds grand in speeches and on paper, but what is taking so long? I noticed in the next TC Meeting, they'll be voting on improvements to the Maplewood Village, like lighting and whatnot, but what about that Avenue?? It's enough to make you want to move, if you live near it. | ||
| Mtierney |
Absolutely sure we would have seen....sorry about the grammatical slip! Thetruth...speaks true. Times have changed so. I firmly believe citizens are best served under a two party system. | ||
| Goodolddays |
...To everyone above, can any one answer a long burning question of over 4 decades...Why is our Hilton area still treated like a step-child all these years? | ||
| Mtierney |
Strange, but you can have condos packed tighter than sardines and sell them for a zillion dollars. Hilton has housing stock on small lots. This reality has always created the "difference" in value. Now Springfield avenue back in the 70s had the Jaycees doing a study on revitalizing the shopping. One of the major drawbacks at that time was the inability to get parcels of land together to create parking and attract a major player. At the time, we did have an Acme supermarket and later an appliance store. I never thought there was a concerted effort to treat the avenue as a step child. My spouse grew up in the Hilton area and graduated from Seth Boyden, MMM and Columbia. | ||
| Shaws |
Where is the Hilton section? I think you are referring to an area near Maplecrest Park and the Hilton branch of the library. What are the boundaries of this area? We are looking at houses and I believe we have seen some in this area. As a prospective home buyer I would like to say that I agree with Thetruth...we came into town by way of Irvington on Sunday and it was pretty bleak. I love Maplewood so much but can't get away from this feeling that it's bordered by some not so great areas. My husband and I fear making the huge financial commitment of buying a house and then regretting it later because of things like "the Irvington Factor". I, too find myself wanting to only approach Maplewood by Rt. 24 and Milburn Ave. It's hard to believe that any crime in Irvington would magically stop just at the border of Maplewood. | ||
| Thetruth07040 |
Shaws, Crime will not and does not magically stop at the border..nor does the spray painted grafitti or the empty liquor bottles in brown paper bags or the now armoured pay phones or the transient businesses with makeshift signs. There is an apartment building on Springfied Ave, above a pizza parlor and a Karate School. It was the first apartment for my wife and I, almost 20 years ago. It was tiny but the building was clean and well kept. Take a look at it now. The front doorway looks like something out out a project in Newark. The windows above are a mess, some with plastic. It is indicative of the Ave. Can someone tell me what the life expectancy of a business on the Ave is vs one in the Village? Yet, they vote on more improvements for the Village. How much does the town spend on the Village at Christmas vs Springfield Ave? The East side of town has been treated as a step child...for years and years and years! Say what you want...deny it...but you will never convince me or many others that it's not true. Sadly, as long as people in town, including our politicians refuse to own up to it, it will not change. Much discussion will be had, many promises will be made. If folks living on Ridgewood or Wyoming or Curtis or Durand had to drive through Irvington or send their friends through there; if the Village had liquor stores that specialized in pints; if the increase in the value of their properties was not keeping pace with the Chathams and Madisons and Cranfords, action would be taken swiftly. It's The Truth! | ||
| Goodolddays |
Thetruth07040...bravo! It's so nice to know that many of us still remember our Springfield Avenue, a place where a family could shop. Practically anything needed was on Springfield Avenue from a small dry good store (Kahn's), appliances, sewing shop, kitchen/dinette store..and the list goes on. One could make a list of where everything was in town.That was then when you had a choice of 2 hardware stores,lunchonettes, five & dime store. How does it look now, lets see....Town Hall, Main Library, High School, Middle School, both Police & Fire Headquarters, golf course, railroad station, shopping center w/numerous shops, main post office, food market, movie theatre, variety of eating establisments and 3 banks. Now tell us one more time...Hilton section (the other Maplewood)hasn't been a step child all these years. Yes Thetruth07040.....it's the truth. | ||
| Thetruth07040 |
Goodolddays...My parents used to take me to Kahn's for shoes..I spent hours in Barney's having milkshakes and listening to 45s, Starks was the place for school supplies, people came from all over for Baumgarts ice cream, Topfs was a wonderful drugstore (there was a second one there too..can't remember the name), The Maplecrest Bakery had the best donuts (buns) on Sunday mornings after church, Degross's (sp?) produce shop always had fresh fruit displayed outside on a stand, ice skating in Maplecrest park in the winter, Now we have 16 hair and nail salons, a large empty restaurant, a closed down gas station, two adult movie stores, an all night convenience store...hmmm...I can see the improvement. At the same time, The Village has flourished. When do you think their going to put an adult movie store or a 24hr Quick Check there? It this altogether a matter of parking and lot size...or is it more a matter of neglect and irresponsibility. People who have not lived here for a long time perhaps don't see the decline and perceive it to quite nice. | ||
| Melidere |
I don't anyone perceives it to be quite nice...but i do think that our society has become so mobile that people don't realize that we have control over a lot of these things..and that the situation can/does deteriorate/improve based on OUR ACTIONS. The village was no great mecca 20 years ago when i moved in. It was a bit out of the way and it had the movie theatre, so most of us found it (not to mention the 5 and 10 which was extraordinarily handy, but the bulk of our shopping was done on either springfield or south orange avenue. Relatively simple steps reassured residents that the village was a safe place to spend some time, the most important of which was the walk-around cops that give everyone a feeling of security. Springfield avenue is a bit more spread out...but if these plans for rejuvenation create some sort of a focal point and some very visible security then there is no reason that people are dying to drive the extra 20-30 minutes to route 22 or route 10. | ||
| Thetruth07040 |
I agree that some of the steps are relatively simple ones. Walk around police would go a long way. There was a really nice Italian restaurant on the Ave. not too long ago. The food was spectacular. It went out of business because he couldn't get enough people to go there. I asked some friends from out of town and even some friends from intown who had been there and liked the food why they didn't return. Their comment was "great food, but lousy neighborhood. We didn't feel safe walking to our car". Now I don't think it's quite that bad here yet but in fact, in the evening, you just don't feel comfortable walking on Springfield Ave. Some of the people you see there are downright frightening. Try going into the Quick Check some evening. Soooo...if security is an important factor, why are there no walking police there now? We hear of all these grand plans for renovation that require layer after layer of town,county and state approval and yet simple things are ignored! Why? I believe it is because the town just doesn't care. If it were really that important to revitalize Springfied Ave, they would have found a way to do it years ago. Forget all this stuff about "it takes time.." It's been nearly ten years of discussion. This may seem like a bold statement, but the money and power in this town lie on the West side. Those people do not now nor will they shop the Ave. Your comments about Rt 22 are interesting. Is that how you envision Springfied Ave.? Lined with fast food restaurants, Car dealerships and perhaps a Target? | ||
| Ffof |
I think it's ok to have an avenue with those types of services, thetruth. But it does have to look nice - maybe more like Morris av in Springfield/Short hills. Also, re the dilapidated apartment front (was that you?) that you used to live in 20 years ago, maybe that's a result of rent control.(See other thread on this subject with lots of info by Nolan.) Then again, we could put gates up on springfield av like that street (which one?) that borders Newark! Maybe it could become a toll road! Then people travelling down the avenue as a thruway now would take 78 instead. (of course, maplewoodians would be exempt from the toll?!) | ||
| Ashear |
I go to the QuickCheck at night and have never had a problem or been concerned. What problems have people had? | ||
| Nohero |
Bshears asked in response to my post, "how long can you feel good about an 'outlook'?" I agree, it is sad that there has not been a lot of improvement. However, as evidenced by the discussion on this topic, it seems that there are people who would welcome some, or any, action to help improve things. We can all do something, just by finding a business to use on the Avenue. If you don't want to go in the evening, go on the weekend. This is a situation where every little bit may help. And, TheTruth, don't be discouraged. Although you may think that "the money and power in this town lie on the West side", just remember that the mayor lives in the Hilton section, and that there does seem to be a concerted effort to improve the Avenue. | ||
| Eliz |
I've been hearing about this concerted effort since I started reading this board last summer but I still don't know the specifics - it all seems very vague. What are the basics of the plan? Can anyone tell me? I don't live far from the ave and have made a concerted effort to drive on Springfield during the day to try to see what's there. It's close to impossible as most of the signs are bad, hard to read from your car, the traffic is heavy. Unless I have heard of a particular store (ie Ricciardi's) then I tend to go elsewhere. Never underestimate the power of aesthetics - as long as the area looks as it does now it won't draw people in the numbers that we would like. | ||
| Thetruth07040 |
Eliz, I couldn't agree more. I'm tired of hearing about "the plan". As for our current Mayor living on my side of town...so did the last Mayor until he moved to the OTHER side of town! | ||
| Thetruth07040 |
By the way, sorry, it was Baumerts Ice Cream not Baumgarts I believe. And as for the Quick Check question..I'll put it in simple terms..I WILL NOT have my wife go there alone after 10PM. The last time I was there I stepped on an empty crack vile as I got out of my car. | ||
| Shaws |
In light of all this.. can someone tell me if the Hilton section is a safe neighborhood and what the boundaries of this area are? | ||
| Kestrel |
Shaws: I've written some of my views on the subject of Springfield Ave. and the Hilton Section a few times previously, so for those of you who've read them, forgive repititions of some of the things I will mention again. My family history living in the Hilton Section goes back to the 1840's, when this area was a town in itself; not named Maplewood,(there was no Maplewood anywhere then) but Hilton. I grew up here. I am almost 59 years old and except for a period of some 20 years when I lived in Manhattan, I have lived here all my life. I have seen a lot of changes. The biggest and most obvious change has been the very rapid change in demographics. In a remarkably short time, perhaps 10 years, entire neighborhoods have changed from predominately white middle class home owners to black middle class homeowners. In my opinion, based on what I have seen and experienced, I feel that the biggest impetous behind these changes, at least initially, was due to "block-busting", steering and "white-flight". In fact, if I remember correctly, there was some "to-do" about this early on, but accusations and charges of this kind are nearly impossible to prove and the subject was, of course, charged with racial overtones,(or undertones) which made any real inquiries or investigations too inflamatory. Be all that as it may, most of the streets and neigborhoods in the area, particularly in the Hilton section, are just about the same, if not better, in some cases, as they were before. Houses and properties are well kept and the home owners now living here have the same goals, ideals and desires as those who preceded them. Yes, there are some exceptions, but there always has been. What frightens people, is the examples of nearby towns like Irvington, Orange, East Orange and Newark. Once these towns were all "very nice", relatively crime free towns. They are not now. The correlation between those town's downturns and the expanding black populace within them seems undeniable. Even though the reasons for what has happened in those towns, in total, are not solely due to the changes in demographics, I truly beleive that here, in the "east side" of Maplewood and the Hilton Section, the future may be poised on whether or not a fairly balanced status of racial mixes can be achieved and/or maintained. And, what happens to Springfield Ave. will be a big factor. To answer your specific questions(finally!) I feel the Hilton Section is safe. I've never been the victim of any crime in all the years I've been here, nor have any of my neigbors. Strictly speaking, it's boundaries, are contained within Burnett Ave to the east, Springfield Ave to the west - from the point where they meet to the North, to Laurel Ave. and Springfield Ave to the south. Undoubtedly, my boundaries will be arguable to other posters, and so too as to whether or not it is safe. There is much more I could say concerning this subject, but I have go on too long here! If you'd like to discuss anything further, let me know. jayzee58@aol.com | ||
| Thetruth07040 |
Kestrel: I agree with your boundaries for the Hilton section. I also agree with your contention that the area is generally safe. And last but not least I agree that the success of failure of this neighborhood lies in the ability to achieve a racial balance. I posted here a few weeks ago a question about the demographics of this neighborhood, asking why so few middle class white families were moving in. What can be done to assure that this area does not become a ghetto? (and I use the word in the literal sense to imply an area with a high concentration of one particular group of people, i.e., Hispanic, Asian, African-American, Haitian, Caucasian etc.) | ||
| Nohero |
Kestrel: I, for one, did not find your discussion of the Hilton section repetitious; in fact, I found it fascinating to learn about someone with family connections to this area which are that far back. One thing I suggest be considered is that the Hilton section has served as an "entry point" for a number of families in Maplewood. Our first home was in the Hilton section, and like so many others we moved when we wanted a larger house, but we stayed in Maplewood. We thought it was a great neighborhood, especially for a family with small children. We also found it to be a diverse neighborhood. As for "demographics", I was always under the impression (correct me if I am wrong) that the Hilton area has a history as an "ethnic" neighborhood, with a large number of Italian families (or perhaps other ethnic groups). That having been said, perhaps the impression that today there is one ethnic group predominating over another is just that, an impression. As a part of town with lower-cost housing, it will be an area for people with more modest incomes. Hopefully, efforts such as the jitney to the train, and new efforts to improve the business condition of the Avenue, will keep Hilton an appealing area. |
