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Don Perkins
Citizen
Username: Cowboy
Post Number: 270
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 11:08 am: |     |
The usual suspects turned a simple goodwill gesture into a huge public protest. About 1,000 protestors turned out yesterday for President Bush's visit to lay a wreath at the tomb of Martin Luther King, Jr. Not content to simply let this one go, the Bush-haters were pressed into action. When I check MOL today, will the evidence already be posted? No, well here we go then...
The liberal media never calls the protestors out on their reasoning. One protestor rambled, "What the Bush administration stands for is the exact opposite of what Dr. King does." I wonder why that reporter didn't ask, "Are you saying that President Bush wants to return to racial segregation and separate schools for white and black children? Are you saying that President Bush wants blacks kept out of restaurants and other public facilities?"
Come on! Just once call these protestors out on their reasoning, make one of them back up their statements.
Another sign (an oldie but a goody): "War is not the answer."
It isn't? I don't imagine the United States would have ever achieved independence without the American Revolution. How about World War II? Was war not the answer then? Sometimes war damned sure is the answer.
And let's not let this pass without pointing out that this protest never would have happened with a Democratic president. Although I used to cringe seeing the photo ops of Clinton placing a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier, protestors were never organized like they are against Bush.
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bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4335
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
How come these protestors weren't removed to a protest pen several hundred yards away, which is the usual practice?
Does this have something to do with the news reports that The President wasn't invited to the memorial, but invited himself.
Cowboy, should they have been prohibited from protesting or at the very least removed to a protest pen?
To be honest I find your post one of the most upsetting I have read here on MOL. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2076
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 11:19 am: | |
Don,
Used to love your dad on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. |
Kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 323
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 11:29 am: | |
Interesting considering Bush I made it a national holiday.
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6127
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 11:42 am: | |
quote: I wonder why that reporter didn't ask, "Are you saying that President Bush wants to return to racial segregation and separate schools for white and black children? Are you saying that President Bush wants blacks kept out of restaurants and other public facilities?"
I suppose the protester was indicating Dr. King's well-known Ghandi-inspired pacifism v. Bush's pre-emptive war "strategy" rather than your interesting and revealing misreading. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 909
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:12 pm: | |
In any event, he was just stopping by on the way to a fundraiser, not exactly the most sincere tribute. |
guycaruso
Citizen
Username: Guycaruso
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:20 pm: | |
I think Don's point is that Bill Clinton never met with the same anti-war protestors even though he authorized military action in Bosnia without UN approval. These people are just anti-Bush and shouldn't hide behind anti-war banners. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2727
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:44 pm: | |
quote:Over the past two years, as I have moved to break the betrayal of my own silences and to speak from the burnings of my own heart, as I have called for radical departures from the destruction of Vietnam, many persons have questioned me about the wisdom of my path. At the heart of their concerns, this query has often loomed large and loud: "Why are you speaking about the war, Dr. King? Why are you joining the voices of dissent?" "Peace and civil rights don't mix," they say. "Aren't you hurting the cause of your people? "they ask. And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment, or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live.
...
A true revolution of values will lay hand on the world order and say of war, "This way of settling differences is not just." This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation's homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into the veins of peoples normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice, and love. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death. [sustained applause]
America, the richest and most powerful nation in the world, can well lead the way in this revolution of values. There is nothing except a tragic death wish to prevent us from reordering our priorities so that the pursuit of peace will take precedence over the pursuit of war. There is nothing to keep us from molding a recalcitrant status quo with bruised hands until we have fashioned it into a brotherhood.
And more of the same in Dr. King's 1967 speech, "Beyond Vietnam" |
ligeti
Citizen
Username: Ligeti
Post Number: 50
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:53 pm: | |
It was not a simple goodwill gesture...it was a calculating political chore. He doesn't care about MLK -- he's just shopping for votes and dressing up his public image. If I were black, I would have been offended. No way would he do something like this unless cameras and spotlights were covering the "gesture" every step of the way.
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Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2729
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:58 pm: | |
Source: http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/03/20/70/image_370203.gif |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 246
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 8:48 pm: | |
I see it only as the President honoring a great American.
Shame on the protesters for the consistent negativity they show.
They would have acted the same way if he, Bush, hadn't honored King.
But if one of their own Presidents., say Gore, had had a conflict and couldn't attend, there would be silence. |
Addy
Citizen
Username: Addy
Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 9:50 pm: | |
What would everyone say if he didn't show up for the "photo op"? Clearly Bush can't win either way. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4345
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 5:22 am: | |
A lurker emailed me and mentioned that the only reason the protestors were not bannished to the protest pen was that even Bush's handlers knew it would have looked funny to have a MLK memorial with only middle aged white people in suits in the crowd.
But don't worry, Bush got even. He appointed Pickering to the Appeals Court using a recess appointment. That will show those damn people not to mess with the Emperor.  |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 890
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 9:28 am: | |
Addy, you are right - he couldn't win either way. But the huge disparity between MLK's approach and W's would have made skipping the photo-op a little more honest.
He should have said he had the flu or something. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10611
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:22 am: | |
Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for selling MLK's legacy so short. It is galling that you boil his beliefs down to non-violent struggle only (in a stretch rationale to discredit the Iraqi situation) without recognizing that King wanted equal treatment for all members of our society based not on the color of their skin but on the content of their character.
President Bush has two African-Americans in his cabinet including the position of Secretary of State. That's something that I believe that Martin Luther King would be very proud of.
Bush is not perfect but some of you are so blind and unfair that it's amazing.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6140
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:29 am: | |
MLK would have been standing with the protesters, but thanks for playing.
(And by the way, it was Reagan who declared MLK's birthday a holiday) |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 1801
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:36 am: | |
Bush shouldn't be taking any heat for his appearance, because it was the right thing to do.
What he should get heat for is his recess appointment of Charles Pickering. |
Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6141
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:40 am: | |
Agreed |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2736
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 5:27 pm: | |
Well, I guess Sbenois just doesn't get it. |
Insite
Citizen
Username: Insite
Post Number: 213
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 6:28 pm: | |
The above post is a personal attack. I think it would be best if Nohero simply resigned from the site before Dave is forced to end his time here instead.
No reason this thing needs to get ugly. Nohero, do the right thing and say so long. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10615
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 6:29 pm: | |
Gee Nohero,what do you think my problem is? Am I too dense to understand? Why don't you explain.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Greatest Straw of all time!
Citizen
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 1783
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 6:35 pm: | |
Sebonis,
Don't be offended. It's what Nohero says when he's cornered.
BUSH/CHENEY IN 2004.. |
Ainsworth Hunt
Citizen
Username: Ainsworth
Post Number: 173
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 6:52 pm: | |
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Quotations
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate.
In fact, violence merely increases hate.
So it goes.
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.
Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?
Expediency asks the question - is it politic?
Vanity asks the question - is it popular?
But conscience asks the question - is it right?
And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular; but one must take it because it is right.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral questions of our time:
the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to oppression and violence. Man must evolve for all human conflict
a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech,
Stockholm, Sweden, December 11, 1964
A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?, 1967
Man was born into barbarism when killing his fellow man was a normal condition of existence.
He became endowed with a conscience. And he has now reached the day when violence toward another human being must become as abhorrent as eating another's flesh.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Why We Can't Wait, 1963
Somehow this madness must cease. We must stop now.
I speak as a child of God and brother to the suffering poor of Vietnam. I speak for those whose land is being laid waste, whose homes are being destroyed, whose culture is being subverted.
I speak for the poor in America who are paying the double price of smashed hopes at home and death and corruption in Vietnam. I speak as a citizen of the world, for the world as it stands aghast at the path we have taken. I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
The Trumpet of Conscience, 1967
Darkness cannot drive out darkness;
only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate;
only love can do that.
Hate multiplies hate,
violence multiplies violence,
and toughness multiplies toughness
in a descending spiral of destruction....
The chain reaction of evil --
hate begetting hate,
wars producing more wars --
must be broken,
or we shall be plunged
into the dark abyss of annihilation.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Strength To Love, 1963
Like anybody, I would like to live a long life.
Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land.
I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people will get to the promised land.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I've Been To The Mountaintop, April 3, 1968
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10616
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 6:54 pm: | |
It's just mind boggling thst someone who pretends to be so enlightened (Nohero) with his cutesy small font types and his knowledge of everything in the universe, is so incapable of separating fairness from pure partisanship.
How in the world can the President of the United States - whether he's a Republican or not - be faulted for laying a wreath at the grave of a national hero (one accorded a national holiday)?
It's astounding that there is not one inch of give or grace.
Oh I get it all right.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 2737
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 7:32 pm: | |
Someone wanted me to explain.
Sbenois wrote: "Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for selling MLK's legacy so short. It is galling that you boil his beliefs down to non-violent struggle only (in a stretch rationale to discredit the Iraqi situation)"
Now, this is just my opinion, mind you, but the extended quote from Dr. King which I posted above deals with that issue. Or, to put it another way, Dr. King already provided a better explanation than I could ever provide, 37 years before Sbenois asked for one:
quote:At the heart of their concerns, this query has often loomed large and loud: "Why are you speaking about the war, Dr. King? Why are you joining the voices of dissent?" "Peace and civil rights don't mix," they say. "Aren't you hurting the cause of your people?" they ask. And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment, or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live.
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 10617
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 7:41 pm: | |
Martin Luther King died on April 4th, 1968. As far as I know, he never expressed any opinions on the subject of war in Iraq, terrorism, or the regime of saddam hussein.
Please get off your high horse and stop projecting his views in these areas.
I get it. I got it. It's got little to do with our President respectfully laying a wreath at his grave.
---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <-
Hey, it also wouldn’t look good coming out of a motel with your wife’s best friend saying you were just planning a surprise birthday party for her husband...- Arturo November '03
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Dave Ross
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6149
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:57 pm: | |
Many arguments going on here.
The first argument is one that supports war as an answer to problems in the world, citing the American Revolution and WWII as examples of necessary wars.
The second argument is a phony argument that anti-war protesters who showed up at Bush's appearance at the MLK memorial were advocating turning the clock back on civil rights.
The third argument is about what MLK's legacy is and whether or not quoting his words is "projecting" or taking his words out of context. A sub-argument here is whether or not quoting an historical fugure's words is being on a "high horse" (standard American anti-intellectualism). A further sub-argument is whether stating one facet of MLK's beliefs is automatically "boiling" his beliefs down to something simplistic and unrelated to his entire civil rights undertaking. Some would argue Gandhi was fairly central to King's civil rights battles and philosophy.
The fourth argument is about Bush's motives for doing it. Was it a media photo-op only, something he cares about deeply or a combination of the two? Maybe the answer will come mostly from a gut feeling. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4347
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 4:40 am: | |
I think this thread has drifted way off track.
The original post was a criticism of the peaceful protestors who somehow managed to avoid being herded into the protest pen.
Even though not invited, the President was probably correct in attending the memorial, at least for political reasons. I don't think anyone denies his "right" to attend. When you are king, you can go where you want to go, when you want to go.
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Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 466
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:24 am: | |
I'm guessing Dr. MLK also would not have been too happy about then-governor Bush signing 100+ death warrants in Texas.
Probably wouldn't have been too happy about the White House counsel supporting the plaintiff in the Michigan affirmative action case, either.
So even aside from whether or not MLK would have supported the war (I doubt it, but who knows?) there are other reasons the protesters have to believe Mr. Bush's actions don't square with Dr. Martin Luther King's beliefs. I don't think it's a stretch on their part to believe Mr. Bush was there out of a sense of obligation, and not a principled support of Dr. King. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 735
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:36 am: | |
I don't think it's a stretch for the protesters to beleive Bush policies led to the dragging of James Byrd as highlighted by the NAACP ad and that OJ was innocent. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4360
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
cjc, jesh, talk about coming from left field. How do you make that stunning leap of thought? |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 736
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 11:21 am: | |
Where's the leap? |
Redsox
Citizen
Username: Redsox
Post Number: 392
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 6:53 pm: | |
cjc- call the knicks
they're looking for a guy with a long reach |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 742
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 1:06 pm: | |
And I'm sure the protesters no doubt embodied much of what MLK had lived for. These are the protesters who would label Clarence Thomas and Colin Powell "Toms", these are the protesters who no doubt would back the recall effort of DC Mayor who boldly left the plantation of the Left and backed school choice.
And these are the protesters who would rail against Bush NOT attending some COngressional Black Caucus function or some NAACP meeting so they could disparage and protest his actions there.
Anyone with a clue as to the Bush family's many -- and seldom appreciated -- efforts on behalf of minorities would never say or insinuate something so absolutely stupid as "Bush doesn't care about them" and 'It's only for a photo op.'
Republicans hate minorities, and Sharpton loves us all. What BS. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 363
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 3:02 pm: | |
Dumbya had to attend this event no matter how much you disagree or dislike the weasel. It's kind of an empty argument as to his sincerity.
You be the judge. A couple of months earlier he was praising Strom Thurmond one of the strongest segragationists this country has ever seen (never mind that he fathered a child with his families African American Maid), then he's praising MLK. Dumbya-hypocrisy be thy name.
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