| Author |
Message |
    
Napes
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 3:54 pm: |     |
Thetruth, I think in addition to vigilance on crime, we should continue to focus on redeveloping and beautifying Springfield Ave. This afternoon I had to drive down Springfield along its entire length, from downtown Newark through Irvington and into Maplewood. The distinction between Newark and Irvington was practically invisible; I wasn't even sure when I had crossed into Irvington. It all looked identical. But the border between Maplewood and Irvington is quite pronounced, even if you don't see the Maplewood sign. Suddenly the 3-story buildings on each side fall away and you've got more greenery, trees, less uniform streetscape. This is not to say Springfield Ave in Maplewood can't stand a lot of improvement -- it certainly CAN -- but my point is that we already have something going for us: it does NOT look like a clone of Irvington. It is markedly better. There is quite a difference as soon as you cross town lines -- whether it's from zoning or what, I don't know. Anyway, I think we need to be sure that this money we're talking about pouring into Springfield gets spent right, gets spent promptly, and makes a real difference. Only then will people from all sides of Maplewood choose to spend money and time on Springfield. As it is now, I admit I usually try to get on and off it as quickly as possible. As much as it's better than Irvington, that's still not saying much. |
Dytunck
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 4:32 pm: | |
Truth,
A week ago, I suggested you develop a proposal and present it to the Civic Association.
How is it looking, ol' boy?
Too busy waiting for someone else to do it for you? Too busy fighting with the numerous posters' suggestions? You've attacked everyone who posed an idea, suggestion or objection. You sure know how to charm 'em.
DO SOMETHING! |
Thetruth07040
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 5:36 pm: | |
Dytunck: I am vigorously resisting the temptation to tell you what to do with your suggestion.
I will however repeat my position again. This is Discussion Board. We are Discussing it. Last time I looked, The Current and former Mayors had read the postings here and commented. The current Mayor even asked the Civic Association to comment on the idea. No, I'm not too busy fighting with posters and I think only in a few of your minds am I attacking their ideas. In fact, few have actually commented on the real idea which was to have some portion of the 4th Celebration at a park on the east side of town, preferably Dehart or Maplecrest. What I have "attacked" as you say, is the inane comments about panties and ALTERNATE suggestions that simply avoid the original suggestion altogether. What I am busy with is my life and the last time I looked, I was paying a great deal of taxes for my elected officials to develop and execute programs. I made the suggestion. Trust me, the appropriate people in the town are well aware of it.
Why so many of you are so bent out of shape about this and keep acting as if I am so vicious is beyond me.
What exactly have YOU done to improve the town today?
By the way, if you'd prefer me NOT to be belligerent, lay off the Ol' boy stuff. It makes you sound silly.
Once again, this has become an attack of ME instead of a discussion of the idea. What are you so very afraid of? |
Ihateice
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 8:45 pm: | |
Truth..I think it's become an attack on you because you ALWAYS have some negative comment when a poster doesn't agree with you. You're giving us the impression that it's your way or no way.
If you want to change things, do it the proper way. Go to whatever council or committee you need to go to and not ask opinions because you obviously don't care about them. |
Harold
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 9:21 pm: | |
Whoa!! Sounds like the west-siders are ganging up on the Truth.
This 4th. of July concept [festivities at alternate sites] is really burning you guys up.
We're all on the same side, aren't we? |
Thetruth07040
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 9:49 pm: | |
It just dawned on me that I really am wasting my time. No one here really wants to address issues, particularly difficult ones. It's a fine place for complaining about an SUV accident or chatting about the snow storm. It is obviously not a place where anyone cares to actually try to examine and address issues. As soon as someone brings something to the table that is controversial, the subject is changed and then any attempts to direct it back are met with accusations of negativity and suggestions that that person go elsewhere to resolve it. The easy way to make something unpleasant go away is to go into that , "you attack someone who doesn't agree with you" or "why don't you join some committee" mode. If you really want to be honest with yourselves, go back and read the postings in this thread and tell me if anyone really addressed my point. If you don't want to contribute to the conversation, don't read it. Go to some other less taxing discussion.
Ok..you don't agree with me about the 4th. Tell me WHY? I'm not attacking because I don't agree with you. You haven't given me or anyone else anything to agree or disagree with. I don't disagree with the suggestions for various other events in Dehart or Maplecrest. I just don't know how that relates to the issue of the 4th. If you're saying we should hold these other events INSTEAD of the 4th, tell me why. It's like being lost and suggesting that we head North and having you all say I think we should have something to eat. Eating is a good idea but it does not substitute for figuring out how to get unlost.But then, it has also occurred to me that more than likely, the people that read and participate in this discussion board are a very small representation of the town. It also occurs to me that it is likely that most of the people on this side of town are not "internet" kind of people and will likely never get to participate in this discussion. The fact that so few of the east siders showed up for the town meetings on the reval should have indicated that to me.
If you expect me to not react to being referred to as ol' boy, or being told that my panties are on too tight, you are sadly mistaken.
However, I'm pretty worn out trying to help you see a point that you don't want to see. My inclination is to just give up. Instead, I think I'll just turn it up a notch. |
John
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 10:10 pm: | |
Dytunck,
I think you went a li'l overboard there as well. Almost as if you are trying to goad Truth into saying something unnecessary. I think his proposal is a valid one and I hope he will follow it up. But if he chooses not to that's his option as well. At least he brought the issue up for discussion. I've criticized him for some of his responses and I don't think your last comments help the matter any. |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 11:05 pm: | |
If you all think this is such a wonderful idea then you ought to pursue it with the people who run the event rather than whining about the fact that some people disagree with you.
Maplewood Civic Association
P.O. Box 3
Maplewood, NJ 07040
378-9897
Now put up or shut up. |
Thetruth07040
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 11:27 pm: | |
I guess that you DON'T think it's a wonderful idea. Why's that?
It seems to me that you are instituting an interesting policy here. Telling people on a discussion board to shut up. Insinuating that talking about something or disagreeing with something is whining. If you don't like what's being said, just don't read it, lseltzer. No one forces you to come to this particular discussion.
I'm sure you are just another openminded Maplewoodian trying to bring the town together.
With your attitude, we would do better just to put razor wire down the middle of Springfield Ave. |
Nilmiester
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 7:07 am: | |
Thtruth07040- Being that you have lived in this town over four decades, consider yourself lucky they didn't tell you to just move! Panties and all. |
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 8:43 am: | |
Lseltzer
Thanks for the info on the Civic Association. Your last line was unnecessary however.
Truth
You are right this discussion has gotten too far off course. But you are steering it that way.
With that in mind I will not participate any longer. I need to put time into my Tax proposal anyway and see how people feel about that. Then I'll go back to being only an observer on the board. I'm spending too much time on it. |
Mlj
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 11:09 am: | |
I go to the well to draw water, but I find that the well is dry.
I go to the well (limited number of message board posters) to draw water (relevant feedback), but the well is dry (lack of relevant feedback is found at this well). Nevertheless, I continue to go back to the same dry well to draw water. |
Musicme
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 4:43 pm: | |
Let's get it together to have "Spring on Springfield" be meaningfull.
Right now it is set for Saturday May 5th, with Arts, Crafts, Merchants represented, Live Music etc.
A couple of years ago, there was a celebration of Maplecrest Park, after the playground was built. It was a fine day.
Last year was Spring on Springfield, and I for one had a great time.
There will be a couple of groups present from the Battle of the Bands that was so successful for the "Habitat for Humanity" fund-raiser.
Enough about Panty-raids and grousing. The event is real and you can show your support of the town, the neighborhoods and the Springfield Ave Merchants. |
Joancrystal
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 5:32 pm: | |
Thetruth07040:
First a correction: I have been told by a knowledgeable friend that the 4th of July Celebration is actually run by the 4th of July Committee of the Maplewood Civic Association. I don't have an address for them. Hopefully, a letter sent to the above cited post office box number addressed to their attention will reach the proper person.
Here are a few reasons why I don't think it would be workable to have parts of the 4th of July celebration held in various parts of town:
These activities are all run by the same handful of very dedicated volunteers who find themselves spread very thin throughout the day, often covering several activity areas at the same time. I don't believe they have the staffing to handle venues spread throughout town.
Ditto the Police Department, Fire Department, 1st Aid Squad and various auxiliary services that provide traffic control, security, and emergency services. We just don't have the staffing to handle a wide spread celebration.
Having all of the activities within a short walking distance of each other means that people attending can participate in virtually all of the activities throughout the day if they want to. We could not accomodate all of the present programs if we had to allow for significant travel time between venues.
Traffic between venues would be a nightmare. Have you ever tried to make it up the hill after the fireworks? Have you tried doing it in a car?
Now imagine the same kind of traffic jams throughout the day.
Finally, lets consider that not all of the people attending the 4th of July celebration live in Maplewood. Attendees come from all over the region. Some even come by public transportation. While I applaud SAC's suggestion that jitneys be used to move people from one part of town to another, I think we would need a whole lot of jitneys and a lot of trips by each to move everyone. It could be a logistic nightmare.
Anyone:
If you differ with my conclusions, please jump in. Let's give thetruth07040 the FACTS he's looking for and address the issues. |
Cfa
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 8:43 pm: | |
I alrady tried giving him the facts regarding South Orange people attending the 4th of July festivities and this is the response I got.
Next, cfa: What about the people coming by train from South Orange??????? Doesn't South Orange have its own 4th celebration? Should the people from
another town get more consideration than those of us on the other side of OUR town???
It's a lost cause to suggest anything. |
Dytunck
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 11:28 pm: | |
I had a suggestion for thetruth, and he can barely restrain himself from telling me what to do with my suggestion. I suspect it involves some painful procedure.
At tonight's TC meeting, the Mayor was kind enough to forward truth's cause. I think truth needs to take the opportunity given. Get your plan going, ol' boy! |
Thetruth07040
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 12:12 am: | |
Joancrystal: Thanks for the breath of fresh air. Your last posting was what I was hoping for from the rest. Before going to the TC or to the Civic Assoc. I wanted just to have some dialog here in order to understand what issues people had with it so that we could see if they were addressable. Each of your points is well taken and can be looked at. Some may be surmountable, others may be showstoppers. I came into this hoping to find some grass roots support at best and some constructive criticism at least. My frustration came from certain posters that just would not come out and state their specific objections. You did just that and I can't thank you enough. We may have disagreed in the past and very well may do so in the future but your objective opinion was what I needed. So many posters immediately suggested alternative events without indicating what thier problem was to the initial suggestion. That made me thin that they either ignored it entirely or dismissed it without really knowing why.
I didn't care if you agreed with me or not. I just wanted some open and honest dialog. What I got in many cases was idiotic sidestepping like the childish panty discussion.
I am away on a business trip but I will give some thoughts to your logistical issues and take them to the Civic Association. Perhaps there is a meaningful compromise.
Cfa: My original response to your comment was based upon the fact that you were giving more consideration to South Orange residents than to residents from the other side of our town. It's a far longer walk from Hughes St to Memorial than from South Orange Village to Memorial and the Maplewood residents on the east side have no train to take. It's not a lost cause to suggest anything. Just think about what you are saying before you say it. Get it now?
Musicme: I am with you. If the 4th idea turns out to be unworkable than we should focus on Spring on Springfield and make it an ALL TOWN event. As you know I have reservations about a significant portion of folks from the west comming but I'll work with you to get them there. Lets get the store owners involved too.
Mlj: The well is not always as dry as it seems. Sometimes you have to keep digging and you find a spring, possibly on the first day of.
I'm still having that cookout. Ya'll comming? I bet we'd have a heck of a conversation.
My sincere thanks to the Mayor for having the courage to bring up the suggestion. |
Mlj
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 10:45 am: | |
Apologies to Truth if it seems as if I am changing the subject, but I for one feel pretty sickened by the east/west distinction on this board. It is causing some outrageous generalizations and misjudgments of others. I like to think of Maplewood as an open-minded community. |
Tom
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 12:41 pm: | |
Yes, but the distinction exists whether we talk about it or not. |
Mlj
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 1:28 pm: | |
Of course, Tom, differences/distictions of all kinds exist between people whether we talk about it or not. It is the extreme generalizations, misjudgments of others, and intolerance in connection with those differences that I find awful. As a ridiculous example, I almost got the firing squad for simply asking the location of Dehart Park. I am not offended by that, I do not take it personally, but it clarifies my point.
That is all. |
Konigen
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 2:08 pm: | |
I'm relatively new to Maplewood, so please forgive the question if it's already been answered or discussed...but...isn't Springfield Ave. a state route? Doesn't that make it the responsibility of the state? Is NJ contributing to the project?
Thanks,
Konigen |
Thetruth07040
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 2:52 pm: | |
Mlj: It was something short of a firing squad. And I too felt that you were unnecessarily blasted though I did enjoy having some fun with the comments.
I don't really feel that I am guilty of extreme generalization. In fact, I have always pointed out that there are some who do not possess this East/West mentality. However, it really does exist and has for a very long time. Not talking about it will not make it go away. What is important is that we make a distinction between those who do and do not have this bias. Unfortunately, much of the overall culture of the town has been one of the East is less and this translates to less services, less consideration etc. That is what I aim to change. There will always be some who feel that all of the town's resources should be concentrated on the Village and the West in general. I am hopeful that as new families move in, they bring with them a more open mind.
It's not so much what gets said here in these discussions as it is what gets said behind closed doors and in the little inner circles that exist. Obviously, some of those people have a desire to not state their opinions openly and some of the longer term residents likely don't even realize that they are guilty of this bias. It a bit like racial prejudice. Few people will openly admit that they are racist, yet many are and have internalized it. It would be nice to not generalize at all..to point out specifically who is guilty and when, but it's not that easy. And just like racism, the fact that you don't talk about it won't make it go away. You have to proactively take measures to create situations where racism will whither on it's own vine. Same here...though I don't mean for a moment to portray our little "class skirmish" to have nearly the importance of racial prejudice. |
Joancrystal
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 5:30 pm: | |
Konigen:
Maplewood recently took over responsibility for Springfield Avenue to enable changes to the Avenue which would not have been possible if it remained under State control.
Having said that, many of the suggestions on this board concerning ways in which businesses and services on Springfield Avenue and the Avenue's ambiance could be improved are not dependent on the Town's ownership. Nor, is the holding of various special events which have been suggested from time to time. |
Joancrystal
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 7:45 pm: | |
Thetruth07040:
I still haven't seen any specific suggestions from you. Let's try this:
The most underrepresented group at the 4th of July celebration is the town's teenagers. They are too old for the races and eating contests (limited primarily to the elementary school set), consider themselves too old for the circus which most of them have seen for thirteen or more years running by the time they reach their teens. They don't like hanging around their parents either. As they grow older they tend to avoid going down to the firworks unless they are with a group of other teens.
The least scheduled part of the day for the 4th of July Committee volunteers seems to be the afternoon when the the circus is in session. Most of the volunteer activity at that time of day seems to be centered on crowd control for the circus. The athletic contests for adult teams basically run themselves.
Therefore, a teen venue in the afternoon might be the most workable solution for your proposal to have part of the 4th of July celebration away from Memorial Park. Dehart Park with it's recreation center would be an ideal location for such an event with its indoor/outdoor facilities.
The 4th of July Committee would have to be approached. Someone would have to check with Roger and his youth advisors to see if the park facilities were available and if the town's teens were interested in such an activity. A program would have to be planned. Entertainment, DJ and/or band(s) would have to be found. Food vendor(s) would have to be arranged for. Adult volunteers would have to be recruited to staff it. A teen committee would have to be formed so that the Town's teens would feel that this was their 4th of July celebration.
Still, it avoids most of the problems I identified in my earlier post. Is this the type of thing you want to pursue? |
Algebra2
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 8:18 pm: | |
I like that idea. A great band and maybe sausage venders and a smoothie cart would be very cool. |
Thetruth07040
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 10:16 pm: | |
Joan: I like it also. I know Roger well and could discuss it with him. As for the band, perhaps MusicMe and I can come up with something as we are both musicians. It would be really special if we could somehow highlight our local talent (we have quite a bit here).It would have to be marketed properly to reach the target of teens in town.
Another thought, what about some sort of celebrity softball game? Teens against the old timers..maybe we could actually get a celebrity of some sort to participate in the game. The mayor could pitch. TC members could play. With the right refreshments and some music added it could be a lot of fun. Have a PA systems and someone interesting announcing the play by play. Maybe a NJ radio personality. |
Musicme
| | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 12:13 pm: | |
Checking in on the musical front...
Last year my group played at the fireworks and enjoyed it very much. I'm hoping to work gain in some capacity on the events for the day.I'd be happy to be involved with a day-time concert. There are several local bands that have contributed to the "Battle of the Bands" night and there are several more that could be considered for a concert/street party.
To get a taste of some of the local talent, come out to Spring on Springfield - May 5th, Hilton Library.
Also, we are trying to set up a "Local Band Night" series at a small tavern in West Orange called Max Daniels. So far, we have a night in April and a night in May. Stay tuned for more details regarding these nights- dates, line-up etc.
These folks are your neighbors, trying to do something creative to benefit your community.
Look for music at Art in the Park over at DeHart park this spring.
Check out the Underground Concert Series that is held at the Memorial Library every Saturday night. Brilliant stuff! |
Thetruth07040
| | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 5:15 pm: | |
Musicme: I've played Max Daniels a number of times. Wonderful place and the owner Carl is a great guy.
I'd welcome an opportunity to work with you. |
Musicme
| | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 11:09 am: | |
Truth:
e-mail me at: hilostudio@aol.com |
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