| Author |
Message |
    
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 2010
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:03 pm: |     |
see what I mean? |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 952
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:12 pm: | |
tom....it's not an ideological litmus test at all. Middle of the roaders will want an answer. A position -- one way or the other. And then 60% of them will gravitate to one candidate or the other. Could be on the left, or could be on the right. |
Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6409
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:27 pm: | |
Speaking of middle-of-the-roaders, Edwards is better at getting those votes. Kerry will likely lose against Bush despite what any polls show today. Independents and Reagan Democrats are more important than liberal votes and that's Edwards' strength. The libs will vote Democratic regardless. |
guycaruso
Citizen
Username: Guycaruso
Post Number: 51
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:38 pm: | |
I agree with Dave on this one, as a Bush guy, I would much rather see Kerry. His record on national security as well as his waffling on issues major issues will make Karl Roove salivate like a Pavlov Dog. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 736
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:49 pm: | |
As a Bush guy I'm rooting for Edwards. He may have a shot to beat Bush but I thinks he's the better Dem.
The “Anyone but Bush” crowd is scaring me a bit by throwing their support this way and that just to defeat Bush. I’m fine with having a Dem in the White House (well not really) but let’s quit the ABB stance. |
guycaruso
Citizen
Username: Guycaruso
Post Number: 52
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:06 pm: | |
Brett, I think Edwards is a likable candidate who seems committed to his views and seems alittle more moderate on foreign policy. I just see Kerry as somebody even the Liberal Media may tear apart. |
drewdix
Citizen
Username: Drewdix
Post Number: 487
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:10 pm: | |
I certainly agree that the Dems have their share of questions to answer.
And I actaully wish W. would change his mind about a few things. I never understood why that is in itself always a bad thing- it's usually the right that is just apalled if you ever have expressed a different belief than your original thought. Not flight suit worthy, I guess.
News update- I think it's clear that the dems have no qualms about "bringing it on" this year. Too late for the repubs to sound that challenge; it sounds weak as the repubs are already on their heels. But that could change.
Foreign policy? If I was a Bush guy I would hope that's not the pivotal subject, with the train wreck his admin. has driven in this regard.
W.'s in worse shape than his Dad was at this point, all the repubs offer now is a DOA intern story and a pre-Hanoi Fonda pic, plus the repubs are pinned to the mat and can;t get their message out what with W.'s Houdini Nat'l guard record--to me, a much weaker position than I thought they'd be in in mid-Feb.
Anyway, my rhetoric is no better than yours- but I certainly agree with Tom about the middle of the pack- W.'s a guy that lost the popular vote in 2000, yet has geared his whole preidency towards the far right segment- and ignoring the opportunity to make ground in the middle might cost him the most.
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Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 738
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:11 pm: | |
The Media is going to tear them both (Bush and Kerry/Edwards). I'm just uncomfortable with Kerry, I think a lot of folks jumped on the bandwagon because he started off so strong. |
MichaelaM
Citizen
Username: Mayquene
Post Number: 82
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:15 pm: | |
Liberal Media with a capital L is a myth -- a lie propogated by those who believe conservative dogma represent middle-of-the road opinion, by those who ignore that the media's job is to hold those in power (currently a Republican president, House and Senate) accountable and by those who are upset at media outlets that don't simply spew demagogues' slanderous contempt for (fill in the blank) word-for-word, and instead analyze and investigate like they ought to.
As a side note, would anyone here say that Fox -- Let's Accompnay Night-Goggle Coverage of the Iraq War With Mozart -- News deserves that title? The label is absurd, and Fox is closer to Spurious Psuedo-News Entertainment than a news medium of any sort. |
guycaruso
Citizen
Username: Guycaruso
Post Number: 53
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:19 pm: | |
DrewDix, let's revisit foreign policy issue
in August.
We can then see how Iraq, Iran, Lybia, North Korea, Pakistan, Bin Laden , Al Qeada problems pan out. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4713
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:20 pm: | |
On the changing your mind subject Bush made the most spectacular 180 in Presidential history when he went into nation building big time after deriding it heavily during the 2000 campaign. Yeah times change, but still this is a total 180. A lot of people in the middle and I consider myself a little right of center supported Bush in 2000, but are unlikely to do so again.
Currently everything he mentions turns into a problem. Not laying his military record on the table until almost everyone thought there was something really bad in it. Promising 2.5mil jobs and then backing off. Castigating the UN, then calling them in on the election issue in Iraq. Faulty inteligence on Iraq before the war. And the list goes on.
From the Kerry side his voting record is an issue. However, some of his no votes on military spending bills can be justified by listing the pork included and the undue amounts of money spent on programs such as Star Wars.
I don't understand how someone can lose the popular vote, be declared President by the Supreme Court and view it as a mandate to move to the far right. |
guycaruso
Citizen
Username: Guycaruso
Post Number: 54
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:23 pm: | |
Michaela , the media I am talking about is ABC, NBC, CBS , CNN etc. They have a Liberal Slant that I could give you hundreds of examples of. Fox does have a conservitive slant , but they don't reach 35 million people. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 739
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:32 pm: | |
Bobk: What do you have a little book of sayings next to you computer with a list of off subject talking points?
- on this thread we’re talking about Kerry/ Edwards, I throw out my “Popular vote line”
- this thread is Outsourcing, this is a good chance for “Tax Breaks”
- Kerry dean Ticket, I’ll use ” Karl Rove and his black arts folks”
We were discussing Kerry and Edwards here.
|
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4714
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:50 pm: | |
Brett, if you guys want to have a discussion limited to bashing Dems, fine. Maybe Dave can set up a special segment for you with passwords and everything. 
When I read through the thread someone had mentioned Kerry's votes and mind changing. I thought it was acceptable to bring up other candidates who change their minds, in some cases big time.
Even as a corporate weenie it bugs me that we are cutting taxes on US Corporations while they eliminate US jobs. I tend to agree with Senator Kerry that there should be tax incentives for creating jobs here as opposed to India.
Discussions here tend to be pretty free form. |
MichaelaM
Citizen
Username: Mayquene
Post Number: 83
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 3:50 pm: | |
Fox News reaches a greater audience than CNN. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 955
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:02 pm: | |
Come on, kids. The media does have a liberal slant. Most journalists are admitted liberals, and a 2000 poll by Brill's Content showed 74% of republicans and 47% of democrats thought the media tacks left. Maybe in 20 years it will be different, but not now.
Bush and his far right agenda? Aside from taxes and national security, you have to be kidding me. Bush's problem is he did a whole bunch of non-conservative things -- and really big things -- to try to get you leftists on board. Caving on Campaign Finance Reform, the Education bill (save the standards part of it), Farm Bills, tariffs, and having kids making 45K a year pay for drugs for middle class geezers. He didn't listen to us far-right guys who said "George -- they hate you. You could socialize medicine and they'd still hate you and vote you out." Whatever he spends on programs, it will never be enough. AIDS --- did more spending than Clinton ever proposed and still....no love.
Kerry -- didn't want the pork? That's why he vetoed? Was that the butt portion or the shoulder he didn't haul back to the Big Dig and other projects? That's like the special interest line of attack which won't fly.
Nation-building doesn't ring true when 1) there are no vital national interests there as in Haiti and Somalia and Kosovo and 2) when it's not even done well as in Haiti, Somalia and Kosovo. Iraq will have palatable elections that work before any of those examples will. That's what Bush meant by it when he said it. If he did change his mind on one thing, it was in Iraq and Afghanistan because it really mattered to the US, and not just the UN, ABC News and the Black Liberal Congressional Caucus.
} |
MichaelaM
Citizen
Username: Mayquene
Post Number: 85
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:18 pm: | |
How about Bush's stance on faith based initiatives? Sex education? Abortion?
How about his efforts to promote to FDA a religious demagogue who thinks women should pray when they suffer menstrual pain? |
Unhinged
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 2761
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:19 pm: | |
Fox News is also the most expensive national cable news media with a 20% increase in '04, CNN is about $2 cheaper per CPM. |
bobk
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 4716
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:29 pm: | |
It is looking more and more like there were no vital national interests in Iraq, although I agree that once we destablized Afghanistan we had to try to fix it.
It is interesting that all of you talk about "media" as TV. How about the print media where things are more balanced between left and right leaning publications? Heck, if you don't like the NY Times, read the WSJ or US News and World Report if you don't like Newsweek's pov. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 2011
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:37 pm: | |
The right pretty much owns radio, insofar as political discussion goes. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 960
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 12:40 pm: | |
Michaela -- those initiatives are small change taken against the whole. The only thing on abortion he's passed is partial birth bans, supported by a majority of your side, Michaela.
US News is on the right? Really???? |
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