| Author | Message | ||
     Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 712 Registered: 7-2003 |
CJC: Unfortunately I went to NJIT / Stevens I’m lucky they taught me how to spell let alone run a business. I had to learn the “making money” part on my own. Sportsnut: As per conversations with people in Maplewood, I’m not aloud to make a profit, I must only provide jobs. Three years ago when outsourcing was looming on the horizon I assumed that my job may be in jeopardy. I decided that I need to get my bosses job in order to stay employed. The guy at the next desk decided that he was going to be mad at the government for letting this happen. The Government is now supporting him and his wife. I can’t believe that this took anyone by surprise. If anyone tells you that their layoff was a surprise or that no one saw it coming is full of crap. When they come looking for a job I know in the back of my mind hat they weren’t the cream of the crop, they are a mediocre employee that I could get in India (actually Romania) for 1/5 of the price. | ||
| Michaela May Citizen Username: Mayquene Post Number: 74 Registered: 1-2004  |
Has anyone seen the episode of the Twilight Zone in which a man breaks a machine with a bat -- a big machine that can do the work of thousands without rest or repair? He yells, "A man needs to work!" So much of what we overseas comes from places with questionable employee-rights records. The clothes we wear, the souveniers we buy. We like low prices, and we enjoy them all more by ignoring how why our sneakers are so cheap. Nevermind if they're made by children, or by workers who work 14 hours a day. We like our cheap prices! And our censored Walmart music! And yes, a person needs to work. So all you free-trade-or-die advotes, where do you suggest Americans once employed in IT, call centers, etc. direct their work? How should they support their families? | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 714 Registered: 7-2003 |
My post wasn’t intended to find jobs for all of the IT people who are out of employment. My point is that we saw it coming. The people who are out of jobs need to find a career that they are capable of doing. And if during the process they lose there beloved house in Maplewood, or the SUV that they hold so dear, so be it. A hell of a lot of people have harder lives then the guy who has to mow his own lawn or the woman who needs two jobs so that her family can take a vacation to Disney. If you’re a software programmer who hasn’t turned off your cable and started looking for a cheaper place to live your crazy. | ||
| mimosa Citizen Username: Mimosa Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, since you did mention spelling...it's allowed not aloud and you're not your.  | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 715 Registered: 7-2003 |
Blame the TECH schools. MS word spell check isn't up to par. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 430 Registered: 6-2003 |
The pressure to move technical jobs to lower wage areas has always been present, and the professionally more aware have made their career plans accordingly. On the other hand, technical unemployment is at an unprecedented high of 7% This looks like a general economic problem, i.e. you can't avoid a collapse in your sector by moving to a sector where things are better. We should show these folks a little sympathy even if we don't have answers to offer them. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 413 Registered: 9-2003  |
Brett, I agree with some of what you say but not all by a long shot. Sometimes legislation and tariffs support corporations in a rather socialist way that seriously mitigates any purely capitalistic economic trend (or the efforts of we poor shmucks trying to stay ahead of the curve). Various forms of nepotism play a part, too. I've seen a lot of people do their absolute best, work the longer hours, get the extra education, make smart career-changing choices and still the whip comes down. Not for the wealthy or people with tenured jobs, maybe, but for a lot of the rest of us. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 933 Registered: 8-2003 |
OK -- here's some sympathy. There. And you've accomplished nothing. | ||
| notehead Citizen Username: Notehead Post Number: 931 Registered: 5-2001  |
I'm in I.T. and of course I find this whole situation disturbing. I get good evaluations and I am generally respected by my colleagues. Now, if I understand Brett correctly, if I get laid off it will basically be my own fault, because I'm not killing myself to outperform every other person in the department and to make myself indispensable. God forbid I only do what I am asked to do. This whole approach of trying to squeeze ever more productivity out of employees was destined to eventually reach a point where it becomes disgusting and dehumanizing. And we're there, folks. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 1987 Registered: 5-2001  |
yeah, but the execs get bigger bonuses, and the stockholders earn more. Who needs morality and ethics when you've got cash? So what if in the future can afford to buy stock because we're all unemployed. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 937 Registered: 8-2003 |
notehead -- since you see an SUV-sized layoff coming towards you, how are you preparing yourself for that eventuality? Are you actively searching anywhere else? Some other line of work even? | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 723 Registered: 7-2003 |
I’m not saying it’s your fault if you get laid off. The point is if you’re doing what your employer expected of you when you were hired years ago, you’ve now become and expensive asset. Your employer can get better bang for their buck by out sourcing. Four years ago you were probably worth more to the company then they were paying you. Now they could cut that salary buy 4/5. Is your company doing so well that they have no issues paying all the extra money it takes to pay their workers 5x what the job is worth? Jobs go away sometimes. The assembly line got rid of skilled craftsman. Robots constantly take jobs from humans. Computers took thousands of jobs away. So it was fine when companies did this to uneducated blue collar workers, but now that these people have a degree it not right? So in the big picture of IT maybe some one who does “what their asked to do” isn’t the guy that management is going to jump on the sword to keep. And at the end of the day I doubt you have a tattoo on you forehead that says IT, there are other jobs out there. | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4689 Registered: 5-2001 |
Home Depot has a Help Wanted sign on the door, which is the point. Decent paying blue and white collar jobs are becoming rarer and rarer. Next will probably be a lot of accounting work going to India and being done by Chartered Accountants instead of CPAs. After that, who knows? I don't think the US will continue to be a viable world political and economic power if we become even more of a country of contrasts between the rich and poor. There has to be someone to buy the goods and services if they are going to be sold. | ||
| Sylad Citizen Username: Sylad Post Number: 247 Registered: 6-2002 |
SW code writers are in most cases not ones that invent the process, they just grind out the code, follow directions. The IP is most cases is not moving it is the grunt work. Dell and other companies that moved their call center operations to India are in the process of moving them back. Most MNC are hiring skilled lower paid workers in India or other counties, mine is one of them, but we are not cutting high price, highly skilled R&D resources that we have here in the States. Call it what you want, this is just another shift in the business model. Look at Intel, 75% of their revenue comes from outside the US, if they only hired US workers they would not be able to keep up with the demand. No I don't like seeing any US jobs lost. But as the model shifts our economy will absorb most of these workers. Granted they might take a pay cut, but they will be absorbed. Our current economic environment just makes this much worse, job creation is slow in the US and seeing job growth in these other countries makes it harder to embrace the new model. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 939 Registered: 8-2003 |
Right...it's Home Depot or nothing. Capitalism sucks. It's over. Do you by chance have a job as a leader of a team of hard-charging go-getters, bobk? | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4691 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually at this point I have spent the last two years trying to undo the damage done by a team of hardchargers who ignored reality. They managed to lose about a buck for every buck they brought into the company.  | ||
| notehead Citizen Username: Notehead Post Number: 932 Registered: 5-2001 |
Brett, I can't argue with your point that jobs come and go in many industries; they have done so for as long as industry has existed. I don't think the loss of an I.T. person's job is any greater a tragedy than the loss of a blue collar worker's job. "Class" per se has nothing to do with it, although the argument could be made that so-called "unskilled" workers can more easily transition from one job to another. But ethics has to enter the equation at some point, and its presence in the American workplace seems to be on the decline. If you see a guy teetering on the edge of a cliff, and I offer you ten bucks to let him fall, I assume you will opt to save the guy, because doing the right thing is overwhelmingly more important than getting that money. What if I offered you, say, $100,000 to let him fall? Corporations are actually pushing their employees off the cliff (figuratively speaking) for a lot less than $100K each. I wonder how many of those employees were hired, as I was, to the sound of assurances from the head office like "the thing that matters to this company the most is its people" or "as long as you do your job, you'll have a seat in this building". I'm fortunate to be young enough that I could probably go back to school to try to change fields, or I might (to my great chagrin) buy a tux and start playing keyboard in a wedding band, but what about my colleagues who are over 50 and are not considered desirable hires by anyone? What's particularly ironic is that I.T. streamlined and automated so many processes in other corporate departments like finance, marketing, human resources, etc. that many workers in those fields had to get trained in other skills such as I.T. in order to stay employed. Where do we move from here? And just watch: any worker who feels compelled to follow their job to Romania or Russia or India will be vilified and called un-American. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 1989 Registered: 5-2001 |
unlike assembly line workers being replaced by robots, these jobs aren't disappearing. People are still doing the work, employers are just opting for (ridiculously) underpaid people with no benefits etc. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 724 Registered: 7-2003 |
We’re getting close to agreeing here! I think we have lost the attitude that the Companies protect their employees, but employees lost the pride in their companies too. Not many people stick around for the Gold Watch anymore. If a better job comes along they’re gone. It’s just a lot more noticeable when 100 jobs get cut, instead to three guys leaving for better jobs. And let’s not bash all companies here. I know a lot of executives who have taken cuts in order to help keep some people in house. The 50 year olds are the ones that get hurt the hardest, plus there looking at a lot less money to retire on due to the problems with the stock market over the past few years. Do they deserve the jobs more then you? I don’t think so. But I do think that we all saw this coming, and the way to deal with it not to stop outsourcing. I can’t imagine how many people were annoyed at us when we installed a new computer system and they watched there colleagues get fired. I guess what goes around comes around. | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1164 Registered: 2-2001 |
They don't give out gold watches anymore. Another cost saving initiative. Now you get a little crystal do-dad that looks like it cost ten bucks. It's almost like they are annoyed at you for staying so long. I agree with bobk. That does not happen very often. Such indicators suggest a groundswelling wave of support for corporate greed control. It's the dawn of a new era. You heard it here first on MOL.  |
