| Author |
Message |
    
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10313
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 1:31 pm: | 
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Hoops, it is appealing to think of terrorists as criminals, just like bank robbers, right?
Unfortunately, and I don't like it any more than you do, we have somewhere around 150,000 troops in Iraq and another 25,000 (?) in Afghanistan engaged in a real shooting war directed by people such as Dr. Z. Remember his letter to Al Qaeda in Mesopatamia? |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 533
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 1:54 pm: |
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As I read this thread I am more and more thankful that guys like Hoops have no say anymore. It took years and years of convincing but the American people now understand the difference. I hope these lefties keep talking all year. You know all over this country there are moderate Democrats with legitimate chances to unseat Republicans but their national party keeps talking and talking and the polls will show them slipping and slipping as we get closer to November. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3009
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 5:42 pm: |
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We shall see. It's taken twelve years of 'trickle down economics' and neo-con self-centered tax phobia to rob people of their dignity, their homes, their emergency relief, their health insurance, their pensions, their roads, their health care, their doctors, their schools, their teachers and their civilization, because a bunch of people like southerner are afraid of having to pay taxes. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 539
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 8:28 pm: |
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If only that were true. Now, make sure you get your taxes paid on time this year. Us red-staters have some roads we need paved. (Actually, we're just going to have one heck of a fish fry with your dollars tulip). Thanks in advance for being such an upstanding citizen. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3010
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 8:43 pm: |
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Southerner, I have always paid my taxes on time, and you are welcome. |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 864
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 8:47 pm: |
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Great way to test the US response--
Cointell by AL "Q". ?
Maybe some neighbor-- who figured-- I can get back at Abdul for making fun of me, 20 years ago in High School. SO this guy gets on his cell phone and makes a call--- |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 349
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 9:01 pm: |
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Tulip-
I see your still flaunting the "republicans/cons are evil" rant again like some 12 year old. The scary thing is I am pretty sure you are much older than that. Don't you ever get tired?
I (and I think Southerner will say the same) have no problems paying taxes as long as they are put to practical use.
It is nice to see that people who pay close to nada in taxes have the govt. (better yet ME) paying for things like health insurance, health care, doctors (is their a difference between these 3?)because I sure don't have that luxury.
And the funny thing is after all this, some still expect them to get a tax cut. The problem is you have to pay taxes in order to get them reduced.
And the problem is we pay too much for substandard education not too little-which is a sham. Then the Dems act like school vouchers are the next boogey man.
Well, I have a novel idea-if you don't like vouchers, try fixing up the schools you control.
-SLK
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 4964
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 9:07 pm: |
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Easy there, chief. Remember, this thread is about foreign policy.
Your "independent" view of public education has been enlightening, though. |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 353
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 9:16 pm: |
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Cute Nohero-
Who is hiding anything? I am a "closeted" republican registered as an "I"ndependent, thank you...
Remember, I am just as "independent" as Innisowen is... 
The real problem with education is lack of parental participation if you really must know. And that is not coming from me, but my liberal social worker of a wife that has been in more shitty schools then you can imagine...so what dies money have to do with that? |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 4966
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 9:31 pm: |
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Well, we have something in common, since my spouse teaches in one of NJ's Abbott school districts.
I agree that parental participation is an important element in education - which is why I think that vouchers are not the real solution to our inner-city education woes.
But, as I said, this is a foreign policy thread, so enough about that. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5065
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
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Nohero -- the exercise of a voucher IS an application of parental involvement.
tulip -- as much as the buzzword 'neo-con' is used, you're the first person I know of that has used it in terms of limiting big-gov't programs. Neo-cons are supposedly for an expansive view of government bordering on 'big government' though it's stereotypically applied mostly to foreign policy. To apply that to letting things like the Tappan Zee deteriorate is a first for me. I'd urge you to get your generalizations straight. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 4968
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:31 pm: |
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That's my point, Cjc - it leaves behind the other kids. That's why vouchers are an imperfect solution. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5069
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:41 pm: |
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Best to stay with the perfect solution of government mandated monopolies. As a Mighty Whitey, life's lottery doesn't relegate me to that misery. Or you (an assumption I may be wrong about). Thing is, some parents who want to express the ultimate involvement in their children don't have the resources to get past the system that they've been told will save them so long as we spend even more money. But their vote is in your pocket, even though polls show they disagree with you on that issue, so you're safe for now. They'll just cheat and sneak kids over the Irvington border because they don't know any better.
Ride it while the plantation is alive. |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 354
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 12:23 pm: |
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Nohero-
We actually agree on something-wow, miracles do happen! 
But what other choice to do we have if we continue to spend money on a failing system that refuses to fix itself? My wife told me countless stories where parents had to be begged to come to the schools just to pick up their child's report card and most of the time they still wouldn't show.
Vouchers may be imperfect but at least they give the parent who is serious about her children's education a way out. Why should they suffer because the majority couldn't care less? |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 734
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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Southerner - its too bad that you feel that way. Unfortunately for you there are many more people like me who feel the way I do.
Bobk - shooting wars are one thing, lets not conflate Iraq with bombing another sovereign nations to targeting one individual. If it is known where these individuals reside then they can be arrested. Period end of statement.
Afghanistan is a totally separate issue, since what we have is a country that was essentially a lawless province controlled by warlords and taliban. I was not against that invasion and am still upset that the resources to stablilize that country were not brought to bare but instead were/are diverted into the immoral war on Iraq. Three years later we could have had a stable Afghanistan, a fully gutted Al Qaeda - including all of the leaders - bin Laden, Z, et al. Instead we have an occupation of Iraq, insufficient forces in Afghanistan and a policy of killing innocent people to achieve a moving target. "Hey maybe he'll be there - ok lets blow up the whole place.". No. That is not a way to achieve results - and it is proved out by its failure.
There are millions of people who hate the united states today. That was not always the case and it does not have to always be the case. We can turn this around diplomatically by helping people out of the hole that they're in. There will still be terrorists in the world no matter what we do. Finding them and stopping them from terrorism is a worthy goal. Too bad this administration is not concerned about anything except perpetual war, oil, and making money for their friends.
Am I against war, am I a pacifist? Absolutely not. I am against immoral war against sovereign nations that have not attacked us. I am against killing innocent people for flimsy reasons. I am against policy that rewards corporations for death and destruction.
I am for a strong national defense. I am for a strong and funded intelligence services. I am against murder and assassinations and torture.
For the people who think the ends justify the means I have only to say that there is something lacking in your character.
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Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 358
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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Hoops-
You had me until:
"There are millions of people who hate the united states today. That was not always the case and it does not have to always be the case. We can turn this around diplomatically by helping people out of the hole that they're in. There will still be terrorists in the world no matter what we do. Finding them and stopping them from terrorism is a worthy goal. Too bad this administration is not concerned about anything except perpetual war, oil, and making money for their friends.
Where have you been for the last 30 years and how many times did you watch Farenheit 911?
-SLK
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Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 735
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 1:21 pm: |
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SLK - I am totally appreciative that you dont get it.
I have made no reference to F911 and it has no bearing on my opinion. The real question is where have you been and why are you in denial. |
Guy
Supporter
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 4:02 pm: |
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The facts continue to roll in.
ABC News has learned that al Qaeda's master bomb maker and chemical weapons expert was one of the men killed in last week's U.S. missile attack in eastern Pakistan.
Midhat Mursi, 52, also known as Abu Khabab al-Masri, was identified by Pakistani authorities as one of three known al Qaeda leaders present at an apparent terror summit conference in the village of Damadola.
The United States had posted a $5 million reward for Mursi's capture. He is described by U.S. authorities as the man who ran al Qaeda's infamous Derunta training camp in Afghanistan, where he used dogs and other animals as subjects of experiments with poison and chemicals.
"This is extraordinarily important," said former FBI agent Jack Cloonan, an ABC News consultant, who was the senior agent on the FBI's al Qaeda squad. "He's the man who trained the shoe bomber, Richard Reid and Zacharias Mousssaoui, as well as hundreds of others.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1517986&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
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Alberto
Citizen
Username: Buckwheat
Post Number: 89
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 5:16 pm: |
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DUNCAN
OLD HAT- CLEARY YOU LACK A GREATER VISION.
BUT WHERE YOU SEE INCONSISTENCY, IN TRUTH THERE LIES A REALITY. I DON'T THINK THAT THE LORD WANTS US TO SACRIFICE OUR CHILDREN- PERHAPS YOU DO. CLEARLY, YOU DEFEND THE TERRORISTS FROM YOUR COMFORTABLE MAPLEWOOD COUCH.
YOU ARE FORGIVEN.
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Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 359
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 5:22 pm: |
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Hoops-
So I don't "get it" because I disagree with your perspective?
I never said you ever mentioned F911, but you sound like your parroting it in your post.
Just an observation, no reason to be so hostile... |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 541
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 8:36 pm: |
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Hoops,
What planet are you living on with the view that more people agree with you? Oh, that's right, in your world, Kerry is President, the Congress is controlled by Democrats, and President Kerry just appointed two die hard liberals to the Supreme Court.
We can disagree, but at least you should acknowledge reality. You'll get another reminder this November and then once again you, Foj, and Themp can live in Denialworld.
And Scrotis, the more I read this board the more I believe that taxes should only be paid for the more fortunate. Therefore, since the blue-states are obviously blessed with better education and better governmental philosophies, I believe they should pay all taxes since they are fortunate to live there. The more I think about it the better I like it. (Hey, it is fun to be a victim. I'm a victim or regionalism and I blame all you blue staters for my woes. Please make your checks out to "Southerner". The post man can find me.) |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10324
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 7:48 am: |
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The Pakistan government has announced that at least three and possibly as many as five known Al Qaeda leaders were killed in the raid. Included is the son in law of Dr. Z and another fine fellow who has a $5,000,000 reward on his head.
Still think that Pakistan had pre-knowledge of the attack. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3053
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 1:30 pm: |
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Bob K:
About Musharraf knowing about the bombing, or approving of it:
Don't think so...read on...
(AP Photo) Byline: KHLAID TANVEER
Pakistani President Tells Senior U.S. Official Airstrike Cannot Be Repeated
By MUNIR AHMAD
Associated Press Writer
(AP) 12:30:15 PM (ET), Saturday, January 21, 2006 (ISLAMABAD, Pakistan)
Pakistan's president told a senior American official Saturday the United States must not repeat airstrikes like the one that apparently was aimed at al-Qaida but killed civilians in a remote village, as officials sought to soothe public outrage over the attack.
Also Saturday, two Pakistani intelligence officials told The Associated Press a captured al-Qaida leader had informed interrogators that he had met Ayman al-Zawahri, Osama bin Laden's top deputy, last year at one of the homes that was hit.
President Gen. Pervez Musharraf assured visiting U.S. Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns that Pakistan would not waver in its support for Washington's war on terrorism but said such airstrikes must not be repeated, a Foreign Ministry official said. The attack prompted nationwide protests calling for Musharraf's ouster.
The comments were Musharraf's first publicized reaction to the Jan. 13 attack on the village of Damadola, near the border with Afghanistan.
The strike, which hit three homes in the mountainous Bajur tribal region, is believed to have killed at least four of al-Zawahri's close associates and at least 13 civilians, including women and children.
The Foreign Ministry official said Musharraf told Burns: "What happened in Bajur must not be repeated." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to comment on the record.
Pakistan's Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri delivered a similar message to Burns when they met later on Saturday in the capital, Islamabad.
"While reaffirming Pakistan's commitment to counterterrorism, the foreign minister underlined the need for the two countries to work in a manner that precludes recent incidents like Bajur," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
A separate ministry statement issued earlier after Musharraf's meeting did not mention the president's comments on the airstrike. Instead it said Musharraf expressed gratitude for Washington's assistance in relief efforts for an Oct. 8 earthquake that devastated the country's north. Burns met Musharraf at his office in Rawalpindi, a garrison city near Islamabad.
Pakistan is a key ally of the United States in its war on terrorism. But it has lodged a protest with the United States over the airstrike that angered many in this Islamic nation of 150 million.
Pakistan's independent GEO television reported that Musharraf warned Burns that repeated attacks could affect cooperation in the war on terrorism.
U.S. Embassy spokesman Rakesh Surampudi said he was unable to comment on whether Burns had discussed the attack with Musharraf. Burns, whose visit was scheduled before the Damadola attack, was in Pakistan to talk about security and earthquake relief aid.
Pakistani officials suspect at least four foreign militants may have died in last week's attack, including Egyptian Midhat Mursi, an al-Qaida explosives and chemical weapons expert, and a son-in-law of al-Zawahri. Mursi has a $5 million bounty on his head and is on the FBI's list of most wanted terrorists.
The Pakistan and U.S. governments, however, have not confirmed the identity or nationality of any dead al-Qaida suspects.
Pakistani authorities said they were looking for the graves of the dead militants.
One official said the four bodies were removed by a local pro-Taliban cleric who was at a dinner with them "and then were shifted to an undisclosed location."
Pakistani and U.S. officials reportedly have said that the Egyptian-born al-Zawahri skipped the meeting and was not killed in the attack.
The Pakistanis have made conflicting statements about the airstrike in recent days.
Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz told reporters in New York on Friday that there was no "tangible evidence" that any extremists had gathered in Damadola. But Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed and provincial authorities had earlier confirmed the presence of "foreign terrorists" the night of the attack.
Two Pakistani intelligence officials said Libyan-born Abu Farraj al-Libbi, who was captured in Pakistan in May 2005, told interrogators that had met al-Zawahri last year at one of the homes that was hit.
The two are believed to have met at the house of Bakhtpur Khan, who is listed among the 13 civilians believed to have died in the airstrike.
One of the intelligence officials said al-Libbi's statement was later verified and it was confirmed that he met al-Zawahri in Damadola. The intelligence officials spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the topic.
Al-Libbi is accused of masterminding two attempts to assassinate Musharraf over Pakistan's alliance with the United States. After his arrest, he was turned over to Washington for further investigation.
U.S. and Pakistani intelligence _ helped by tribesmen and Afghans _ began monitoring Khan's home after al-Libbi's confession, the intelligence officials said.
___
Associated Press writer Bradley Brooks at the United Nations contributed to this report.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
News content provided by the Associated Press. Weather content provided by Weather.com
© 1994-2006 LocalNet Corp. All Rights Reserved. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3065
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 2:41 pm: |
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Bob K, I quoted the above for you. Are you there? |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 440
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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How funny Tulip, while you are all concerned what the President of Pakistan's feeling is on this matter he was in NYC all last week and staying at the Roosevelt (down the street from my office). Maybe you should of stopped by to express your "outrage"?
-SLK} |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2285
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:17 pm: |
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In reading that, there is no indication that Pakistan did not know about the strike in advance. Their response is very carefully worded. There does not seem to be outrage at their borders being violated.
"Pakistan's president told a senior American official Saturday the United States must not repeat airstrikes." |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3070
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:47 pm: |
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Look. Get your president to get the hell off of women and children, and you get the hell off me.
No, I don't like him. I'm not going to go after him the way you and scrotum go after me.
I hate what he's doing.
Period.
So get off it. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3071
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:48 pm: |
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and get some laws into those mines, get back to OSHA< remember OSHA, and get the hell serious again about taking care of people for gods sake.
Excuse me for jumping threads!!! |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 443
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 4:19 pm: |
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Tulip-
What do you know about OSHA? I could teach you alot since I manage 10mil dollars a year in renovation projects for my firm in NYC. You would be surpirsed to learn a few things...
"Look. Get your president to get the hell off of women and children, and you get the hell off me"
Huh, is our Prez a mass rapist now? What in the world are you babbling about now?
IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT DUBYA IS DOING THEN YOU KNOW THE DRILL...revolt or shadddaup already.... |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 908
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 5:20 pm: |
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Aziz denies reports of Al-Qaeda operatives' deaths
Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has denied reports that Al-Qaeda operatives were among those killed in last week's US air strike on a tribal village bordering Afghanistan.
"As of an hour ago, when I last checked with security agencies combing the area, they have not found any tangible evidence that a particular group or any individual was there," Aziz told reporters on Friday evening after a meeting with UN Secretary General Kofi Annan at the UN headquarters in New York.
Earlier media reports said several Al-Qaeda members, including an explosives expert of the terrorist group, were killed in the US air strike, which left 18 civilians dead.
Aziz reiterated that his government condemned the US air strike, which has sparked massive protests in many Pakistani cities. He said he would raise the issue when meeting with US President George W Bush in Washington next week.
But the Pakistani prime minister pledged his country's firm support for the US campaign against terrorists. "Pakistan is totally committed to fighting war against terrorism and we're doing it out of conviction," he noted.
"As regards the relations between Pakistan and the US, or our conviction about fighting terrorism, there is no question that Pakistan is one of the countries which has done the most because we believe terrorism is no solution to any problems," he added.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1604377,00050001.htm |
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