| Author | Message | ||
     themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2448 Registered: 12-2001  |
The Huffington Post has learned the Bush administration recently asked high ranking military leaders to denounce Congressman John Murtha. Congressman Murtha has called for the Bush Administration to withdraw US troops from Iraq. The Bush Administration first attacked Rep. Murtha for his Iraq views by associating him with the filmmaker Michael Moore and Representative Jean Schmidt likened him to a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives. When those tactics backfired, Dick Cheney called Murtha "A good man, a marine, a patriot and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion." Though the White House has backed off publicly, administration officials have nevertheless recently made calls to military leaders to condemn the congressman. So far they have refused. Rep. Murtha spent 37 years in the Marine Corps earning a Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts and a Navy Distinguished Service Medal. His service has earned him the respect of the military, and made him a trusted adviser to both Republican and Democratic presidents and leaders of the armed forces. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8378 Registered: 4-1997  |
I guess all high ranking military leaders hate America.  | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2005 |
And are giving aid and comfort to the enemy. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1329 Registered: 3-2004 |
Who gives a rat's arse about Col. John Murtha, USMC, ((ret.)? After all, Bush is running the country, and he served in the Texas Air National Guard Champagne Squadron! And after all, it's so HARD being president and fighting for our freedoms. And after all, VP Cheney was smart enough to get five (5) deferments from the draft during the Vietnam war. After all, he had "other priorities." So who cares about Jack Murtha? | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2005 |
Cheney had his five deferments yet was fully supportive of the war effort, as was Bush at the time. They certainly weren't going to stick their necks out, even for a cause they believed in. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5035 Registered: 8-2003 |
Murtha's going to have some problems. May be big, may be small. We'll see. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2005 |
What problems do you think he will have? | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5036 Registered: 8-2003 |
At this point, I'm not at liberty to say. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4200 Registered: 5-2001 |
No question that the special Character Assassination Task Force is all over it. So what else is new. You disagree with the administration, you get trash thrown at you. Goodness knows they won't even try and win on the merits. | ||
| Joe Citizen Username: Gonets Post Number: 1104 Registered: 2-2004 |
Thank God we live in a country where we can disagree with the government and only have to worry about our character being assassinated. | ||
| slipknot (slippy) Citizen Username: Zotts Post Number: 217 Registered: 7-2004  |
Unless you are a CIA operative, in which case it may be your life. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2451 Registered: 12-2001 |
"Murtha's going to have some problems. May be big, may be small. We'll see." That will make CJC happy. Murtha is a war critic. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 302 Registered: 10-2005 |
Yeah Joe/Tom-Imagine what Alito feels like after three days of have his own character assassinated? At least Murtha could of voted on his own bill to yank the troops out of Iraq but didn't...vote against your own bill after fighting passionately for it? How do you spell credibility issue? | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 303 Registered: 10-2005 |
Oh yeah, and the Huffington Post doesn't have an agenda, right?  | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1332 Registered: 3-2004  |
Unless you are a CIA operative, in which case it may be your life. right. valerie plame has been in hiding, scared for her life, since the outing. i think it was a disgrace what happened, but lets not exagerrate to the point os silliness | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2453 Registered: 12-2001 |
You people simply have no lowest depth. You'll always go lower. Filthy republican garbage. Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question By Marc Morano and Randy Hall CNSNews.com Staff January 13, 2006 Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam (CNSNews.com) - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam. Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records. A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts. "[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967. Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election. Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam." In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record. "Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response. "I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added. However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide. When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election. "Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated. On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter. "The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter. Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital. "Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added. Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967. "In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported. But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries. "I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard. A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter." Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq. The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience. "I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done." Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security." "I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book. In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book. 'He's a phony and a liar' Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor. ... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002. Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars. "At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter. "You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added. In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter. "The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said. Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy. "The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked. According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'" But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion. "You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility. Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds. "Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote. "Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added. Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam' During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue. "Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994. In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts. "I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition. "I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added. Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign. "I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added. The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist. Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said. (Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.) Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam Make media inquiries or request an interview with Marc Morano. Subscribe to the free CNSNews.com daily E-brief. E-mail a comment or news tip to Marc Morano. Send a Letter to the Editor about this article. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4201 Registered: 5-2001 |
there they are right on schedule, blowing smoke. Questions about Murtha's purple hearts? Maybe. Questions about weapons of mass destruction? None. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4202 Registered: 5-2001 |
I can't even get on the cnsnews.com site, every chickenhawk in america must be logging on to print it out for a little, um, bedtime reading later on. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2454 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hey, he was only a Marine for 37 years. He's probably a secret Marxist. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2199 Registered: 5-2004  |
SLK, Murtha's bill was never voted on. Republicans crafted a different version and put that up for a vote. Independent? bwahahaha! As independent as an AFL-CIO president. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2456 Registered: 12-2001 |
Rastro, don't waste your breath. I imagine he has a head the size of a basketball with eyes on the side and a beak for a mouth. Irretrievable stupidity but lots of opinion. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2005 |
He was a First Marine Regiment Intelligence Officer in 1966 and 1967? Boy, he must have seen some nasty stuff and been in some tough fights. Those were rough years. Thank you for your service Congressman. Welcome home. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2457 Registered: 12-2001 |
Support the troops. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4203 Registered: 5-2001 |
next they'll be telling us he sank the Maine. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 511 Registered: 2-2004 |
This is quite funny. You want to talk about respect. You guys can say anything you want about the President, yet we can't criticize a Member of the House? What's up with that. In case you guys don't realize, Bush outranks Murtha by many, many degrees. Both these guys sought public office so I don't see the problem in criticizing either of them. You don't have a problem criticizing Bush so why should we refrain from criticizing Murtha? This is politics and Murtha knew the can he opened. I guess the old guy needed some national attention. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4204 Registered: 5-2001 |
Criticize, sure. Just don't make •••• up. This is a typical Karl Rove "go after their strengths" smear, and deserves no respect. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 513 Registered: 2-2004 |
tom, I agree with you. I wish both sides were civil. However, they are not. So, are we conservatives suppose to just stand here while the libs make up things daily about Bush? I'm sorry, but if a little mud has to be smeared then so be it. The "ends" are to important. If the libs don't want to stay above board then we won't. The libs have painted Bush with every name and slander possible. If Rep. Murtha couldn't stand the heat then he shouldn't have lit the fuse. If the Dems leave Bush alone, I bet the Repubs would leave ole Murtha alone. But they won't, and election season is right around the corner and we are not going to have a repeat of 2005 where we sit on our hands while getting pummeled. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1332 Registered: 3-2004 |
Let's keep some perspective on Murtha and Bush. This is not a question of criticism so much as it is a question of degree of respect. 1. The one (the veteran) has an admirable Marine career as a mustang, as we used to call them. Enlisted and worked his way up through the ranks. Purple hearts, Bronze Star, Vietnam commendations. Knows about warfare, knows about what happens in combat. Got into Congress on his own and has served his district well. Demonstrates real concern at the stresses and pressures that multiple tours in combat zones cause for troopers. Questions the effectiveness of what we're doing in Iraq and how we're executing on the mission. 2. The other ( the President) never served in combat or on active duty. Spent most of his time in the Texas Air National Guard's Champagne squadron. Now they didn't really drink champagne, usually only bourbon and beer (I heard this from a Wall Street colleague of mine also served in the TANGCS). He was an unsuccessful oil venturer. He somehow got part ownership of the Texas Rangers baseball team through family ties, and extricated himself with a lot of money on a minimal investment. Was elected governor of Texas, a state whose legislature meets every two years, through Daddy's "bidness" network. Used a number of dirty tricks in his campaign against Ann Richardson that eerily resemble the dirty tricks in elections of 2000 and 2004 in his presidential campaigns. Declared a war of choice upon Iraq. Under-equipped the troops and under-resourced them. Fired Lawrence Lindsay when Lindsay said that the Iraq war would cost well over $200BN because the administration wanted to hear a smaller number. Fired General Shinseki because the general was candid about the number of troops necessary not only to topple Saddam Hussein but to keep subsequent order there. Never fired Wolfowitz, Feith, Rumsfeld, or Cheney, the architects of the Iraq mess. Talks about how hard it is to be president and to fight for our freedoms, while undermining our freedoms through questionable invasions of our domestic privacy. He is the President so, if I were still in the uniform of a captain in the US Army Infantry, I would salute him. However, if you ask me which of the two above that I respect, and who really has sacrificed for his country, my answer is that I have no respect for this president and every respect for Col. John Murtha, USMC (ret.). | ||
| Foj Citizen Username: Foger Post Number: 844 Registered: 9-2004 |
someone really thought Murthas bill went up for a vote-- OMG ! ! ! ! ! ! next thing ya know Drudge will say CLinton spyed w/o a warrent. Yeah---- stop makin s*** up. Or learn to tell the difference between a complete fabrication and spin. | ||
| kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 735 Registered: 11-2003 |
this board used to be worth a visit...now it's so utterly irrelevent it's kind of sad. you hate bush, we get it. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4206 Registered: 5-2001 |
Here's another perspective: we're angry at Bush because of what he's indisputably done in the last few years in his current position. Murtha is being called out on speculation about what may have happened 35-40 years ago in another life. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1333 Registered: 3-2004 |
Kenney: You don't get it. You lot elected a guy to be president who shouldn't be elected president of a fraternity. You elected an image without substance. You elected a one-trick pony who believes in photo ops and cliches. You elected someone who can "fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time." And it's our obligation to see through him. | ||
| Foj Citizen Username: Foger Post Number: 847 Registered: 9-2004 |
yeah really Bush and crew just screw everything up-- we would have been better off as a country with Bob Dole as Pres. Or Colin Powell, or Colin Farrel or Larry Farrel. Or Barry Farrel, or Larry Barrel. Gee- I miss Nixon | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5038 Registered: 8-2003 |
Throwing up dust like an angry gorilla. Look -- even tom allowed there might be questions about Murtha's past. And the reason? His quotes about an injury that is no doubt "seared in his memory" much like Kerry's memory of being in Cambodia on Xmas while Nixon was in the WH tend to change in different news accounts. What's up with that? No one has any questions that I've seen about Dole or Inouye's injuries far as I've been able to read. The story behind it doesn't change. Not true for Kerry and Murtha. And a highly decorated soldier is the one calling Murtha on the carpet. A fellow Democrat is calling Murtha too. This is old stuff. How many of you knew about it before this? How many knew about Murtha in Abscam? What kind of job did the press do to put it to rest? Nothing. And Murtha won't release his military records (just like Kerry). This is lower than low, some would say. Lower than Alito is a racist? "well, cjc, he did belong to that group, ya know." And Kerry was present in St. Louis when they spoke about bumping off a Senator during Viet Nam protests. One's a good question, the other one isn't. And your response is: Bush sucks. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 515 Registered: 2-2004 |
Inni, None of that matters. It is about respect. The President out ranks Murtha. So, again, why should I respect someone of lower rank and not respect someone of higher rank? Your twisted logic is laughable. Besides, I don't care what Murtha did in the past. I'm looking at the present and the guy tried to get tough so the opposition got tough. I think the entire Murtha epidose is worthless anyway. No one is going to from an opinion because of what he says. He has his 15 minutes, now he can write his book and join Sheehan on the talk circuit. I'm sure there will be many more Murtha and Sheehans over the next 3 years. Keep belittling the President and we will continue to belittle your so called leaders. | ||
| kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 736 Registered: 11-2003 |
i know many complete idiots who served in the military. | ||
| kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 737 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bush may go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents ever...the fact you people don't see the changes taking place in the middle east can only be because you aren't very bright. hatred tends to influence the ability to see things as they are. freedom and security will reign inspite of the demies reluctance...stay in the back seat and let the adults continue to drive. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2458 Registered: 12-2001 |
inspite ? | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1334 Registered: 3-2004 |
Did you yourself serve, kenney? How do you know them? | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1857 Registered: 6-2003  |
Bush's failings are well-known to just about everyone in the world except his partisans here in the U.S. The verdict of history, when it ultimately comes, will probably be severe. A lot of evidence on Bush's decision-making process has yet to be made public, and my suspicion is that it will reveal even greater depths of venality and incompetence than we have seen so far. |
