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Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 71
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:36 pm: | 
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I know I'm new here, and I'm really not interested in partisan debate about specific bills and decisions. What I am interested to hear (read) is what philospophy drives your politics.
Do you abhore Big Government?
Are you all issues Pro-life?
Are you a Liberarian? If so, how much.
We get distraacted by the details, but what I'm interested in is the life's philosophy that drives the opinions.
Who wants to play? |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 4740
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 1:10 am: |
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"I'm really not interested in partisan debate..."
Really? Who are you Jersey Boy, and why should we play with you? What's your game pal?
You are new here, so where do you shine off asking such personal questions of total strangers? I'm sick and tired of you people coming in here thinking because Jamie gave you an access code you can just butt into our political business.
You want to play? You want to know my philosophy? I’ll give you my philosophy when you learn how to spell it!!!!
Now get the hell off the board until you’ve gone through the new comers section and properly introduced and identified yourself...
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Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 7:38 am: |
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Okay, I guess I know where ajc stands. Anyone elso have an opinion? Maybe someone who actually checked the Newcomers board?
To all, my apologies about the spelling error, I meant no offense |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 247
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 7:48 am: |
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no offense taken...saw your intro in new comers.
Grew up a Green Peace Liberal, until I started reading political philosophy, and understanding the trade-offs involved with that type of approach to society....eventually, became an Ayn Rand-esque Libertarian until I got to know the Cooks that the libertarian party was sheparding around as their leadership. Decided to become a Free Agent....and consider myself a Pro-Choice Republican (because it's necessary to distinguish that feature these days, else be confused with the "Focus-on-the-family" lobbying group).
A lot has to do with the changing of my beliefs/understanding as I mature, but a lot has to do with the changing of the parties (ie Republican Party used to be Small Govt. advocates, but has surprisingly become Big Govt Advocates, which I despise) I'm heading into 2008 with an open mind, interested in seeing which direction each party is going at that point. |
Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 74
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:08 am: |
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Thanks for posting, Smarty. That was more along the lines of the kind of response I was expecting. I'm also in flux. I read alot ot political blogs, including MOL. I find the partisan debate kills the philosophical debate. For example: Democrats say, "Bush said he wouldn't nation build. Now he's nation building." Republicans resond, "Clinton did it too!" I'm looking for the higher level debate, when and why should we be nation building, if at all.
Maybe they're all corrupt, but hopefully, we're not. We should be able to talk without the mudslinging, at least to each other. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 8487
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:13 am: |
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Don't mind Ajc. You'll get used to him. He's just a librarian at heart. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4413
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:32 am: |
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That's liberarian! |
Hank Zona
Supporter
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 5186
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:43 am: |
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I think last night when he posted he might have been libational.  |
LibraryLady(ncjanow)
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 2953
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:47 am: |
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I am a librarian, I know many librarians and AJC is NO librarian! (we are never rude and yell at newbies)
Nancy Chiller Janow
On a coffee break..or something like it.
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Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 527
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 9:58 am: |
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Jersey Boy-
I was looking for the same type of debate as you but it is kind of hard on these boards (see the Roe v. Wade thread).
I went from an Anarchist Punk to "closeted Republican" over 13 yearsif that makes any sense. I usually don't play partisan politics and I am registered as an "i"ndependent but to be honest the Democrats have really lost my respect over the last 6 years for many reasons. I am not saying I would never vote Democrat and actually have on local levels. But for me, I need discussion and solutions not complaints,
More later... |
Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 75
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 10:12 am: |
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Scrotis Lo Knows,
That transformation sounds interesting. But you're not the first Punk Republican I've heard of. Rock on.
J.B. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3007
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 10:52 am: |
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Jersey Boy,
I consider myself a humanist. Here's where I'm coming from:
The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles
- We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
- We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
- We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
- We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
- We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
- We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
- We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
- We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
- We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
- We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
- We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
- We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
- We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
- We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
- We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
- We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
- We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
- We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
- We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
- We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
- We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 262
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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Sounds like a Compassionate version of Objectionism. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 4743
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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Who wants to play?
I love to play, but I guess you really didn’t, so let me try to be a little more serious...
Maplewood has become a very sophisticated, well educated, and Liberal Democratic community. It’s changed dramatically in the past decade from a very backward, stupid, and conservative bunch of Republicans who had nothing to do with making the town to what it is today… West New York… (JOKE)
To start with, let me try to clear up the spelling issue. I don’t make a practice of correcting spelling mistakes like some on this board, and I accept your apology for an error, but it wasn’t just one, it was four. I suggest you use your spell check so we know you’re not playing, but really serious about your posts. (NO JOKE)
As for our leader Dave saying you'll get used to me; trust me, you won’t. And, I’m NOT a librarian at heart; Dave was only “Playing with you.” (JOKE)
Next, when you ask people to play with you, at least be open to the possibility that they are… playing with you. (NO JOKE)
FYI, I’m a registered Republican, and generally conservative. And, without naming any names, as one of our liberal, far to the left, Democrats, newly re-elected to the Township Committee, and a former Mayor of Maplewood stated for everyone to hear on New Years day, “I’m also proud of it!” (JOKE)
Finally, if you’re really not interested in partisan debate, IMHO, you’re in the wrong section of the board. The philosophy that drives the politics in this section is definitely partisan. (NO JOKE)
Good luck, best wishes, welcome to Maplewood, welcome to MOL, and come over some morning for pancakes if you really want to know what's going on it town... Art
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Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1622
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 2:08 pm: |
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Notehead,
The humanist principles are really inspiring - thanks.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12113
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 2:14 pm: |
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I am wary of large amounts of power in small numbers of people.
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Haight-Strawbury
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 6700
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 2:17 pm: |
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As a general rule most radical left wingers are mentally retarded.
There's nothing like being on the ocean!
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 4744
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 3:04 pm: |
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"We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding."
Notehead, I have to admit I'm impressed. These are all some very worth while and high minded ideas. You're my kind of guy. If this is who you really are, I'm going to have to pay closer attention to what you say on the board in the future... |
Threeringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 7:48 pm: |
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I have never really trusted either party. In my time as a voter, I have cast ballots against Reagan, Mondale, Bush Sr., Dukakis, Clinton, Dole, Bush Jr. and Gore. I didn't vote against Kerry in 2004 because I decided not to vote. So, I feel at least slightly entitled to say: a pox on both their houses. I admit with embarrassment that I used to think the Republicans were more trustworthy on foreign policy (remember when Democrats started the wars?), but I got over that around the time of the first Gulf War. The Libertarians take a useful truth, i.e. that markets work and then run it into the ground. Economic anarchy works no better than political anarchy. I am for:
a limited government that respects state's rights,pays its bills, secures the borders and
implements a strictly non-interventionist foreign policy. The problems America faces will not be solved by Republicans or Democrats, they are too corrupt to be saved. I'm looking forward to reading the new book by James Bovard: Attention Deficit Democracy. The introduction is online and I'll close with a couple of quotes:
Bush has proven that a president can get away with far more hokum than previously thought. Unfortunately, this was also the lesson of the Clinton presidency. Even though Americans often recognized that Bill Clinton lied, many still believed him when he promised to "feel their pain." Clinton’s case for bombing Serbia in 1999 was as dubious as Bush’s case for invading Iraq. But for both Clinton and Bush, their self-proclaimed good intentions made unjustified U.S. killings irrelevant.
"Presidents have lied so much to us about foreign policy that they’ve established almost a common-law right to do so," history professor Leo Ribuffo observed in 1998. From John F. Kennedy lying about the Bay of Pigs debacle in Cuba; to Johnson lying about the Gulf of Tonkin resolution; to Richard Nixon lying about the secret bombing of Cambodia; to Jimmy Carter lying about the Shah of Iran being a progressive, enlightened ruler; to Ronald Reagan lying about terrorism and Iran-Contra; to George H. W. Bush lying about the justifications for the first Gulf War, entire generations have come of age since the ancient time when a president’s power was constrained by a duty of candor to the public.
It would be a mistake to view Bush as an aberration in modern political history. There are far more parallels between Bush and Clinton than either Democrats or Republicans would like to admit. And most of Clinton’s abuses followed precedents set by Bush Sr., Nixon, Johnson, and earlier presidents. Bush is more a symptom of the decay of American democracy than a first cause.
Read the rest here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/bovard/bovard19.html
Cheers
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3009
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:02 pm: |
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Thanks, I was really impressed with those when I came across them about 6 or 7 years ago. I can't say I succeed at living those principles every moment of every day, but I think they are a great list of things to strive for and maintain awareness of.
One of the items there that I want to point out to the right-leaning folks is the affirmation of helping people so that they can then help themselves. Genuine charity is not about just giving people hand-outs on a continual basis. Obviously, there will be a wide range of opinion on how and when to do this, but it ties into another concept in humanism that is a bit more contentious: people born into a culture tend to be very strongly influenced by that culture. So, you have to bring a lot of understanding to the situation when assessing another individual and deciding whether or not that person deserves help from you. |
kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 748
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:45 pm: |
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and dont mind dave, he is a die-hard poster disguised as a moderator.
The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR..
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W.
Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W.
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Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 78
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 8:53 pm: |
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Notehead, very interesting Humanist Statement of Principles. I have heard of "Secular Humanists" but these principles have the "secular" built right in. It's interesting that most of the principles are quite Christian. It could be the beginning of people agreeing...
See comments about it by ajc and lydia!
I am interested in the Libertarian idea. Is there a Libertarian in the house? I've spent some time in the Dominican Republic, which is a third world country: very little Government, lots of private security services. Some Government Health care -- all very bad. I always worry about the Libertarian principles leading to a version of this third world situation. I assume there's some optimism in the thinking that we don't need government. I'd love to hear it articulated. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3012
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 12:11 am: |
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Oh, there are elements of humanism that every successful religion can identify with, for sure.
And yeah, we've got some Libertarians here. Take it away, Lib! |
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