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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 299
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 3:48 pm: | 
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Right from Drudge Report:
Sen. John Kerry claimed this morning on NBC TODAY that 53% of America's children do not graduate from high school -- a claim that raised eyebrows in the NBC control room, sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.
Kerry made the comments after host Katie Couric asked the former presidential candidate about Bush's State of the Union call to train 70,000 additional teachers in math and science.
COURIC: He wanted to train 70,000 additional teachers in math and science.
KERRY: That's terrific. But 53 percent of our children don't graduate from high school. Kids don't have after-school programs... He didn't ask America to sacrifice anything to achieve great goals and the biggest example is making the tax cut permanent for the wealthiest people in America. The average American struggles to find time to take [care] of families, working two or three jobs... It's a disgrace. He did not tell the real state of the union.
Kerry's 53% claim conflicts with a recent press release from the U.S. Census Bureau: "High School Graduation Rates Reach All-Time High"
And the Census Bureau's own website states: 85.9 Percent Of Americans Aged 20-24 Are High School Graduates. (U.S. Census Bureau Website, www.census.gov , Accessed 2/1/06)
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Guy
Supporter
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 1478
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 4:01 pm: |
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" They actually did graduate from high school , before they got left back" |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5120
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 9:58 pm: |
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What a moron. |
slipknot (slippy)
Citizen
Username: Zotts
Post Number: 242
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 10:16 pm: |
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I'm sorry, did you just make this up, I can not find this on Drudge or Google. I would like some proof. |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 492
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 10:32 pm: |
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Smarty, where was your SmokinGun news flash when Bush said there were WMDs in Iraq? |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 1898
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
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I'm strongly in favor of holding ALL office holders' feet to the fire when they get their facts wrong. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4308
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 10:57 pm: |
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You can listen to O'Reilly or Limbaugh for 10 minutes and hear numerous errors like this, delivered with malice and intentionally.
It's pretty obvious that he mixed up two different statistics. But the neo-cons now are boosting how many students actually graduate. Hooray! That is, until next time their property tax bill arrives. Then they'll be back to bitching about how bad the educational system is.
But for now it's fun to bash Kerry for making the kind of mistake Bush makes eight times before lunch on a typical day. |
Eponymous
Citizen
Username: Eponymous
Post Number: 57
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 11:09 pm: |
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It's here, but I couldn't find a transcript for the Today show:
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2006/02/01/20060201_164000_flash5kt.htm
Relatedly, the Census Bureau website gives the national graduation rate for the class of 1998 as 71%.; for white students the rate was 78%, while it was 56% for African-American students and 54% for Latino students. The % of Americans aged 20-24 who have a HS degree is not the same as a graduation rate.
There's some 2003 data here, but the Census people seem to like that "Among people 25 years of age or older..." stat.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 925
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 11:21 pm: |
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NBC has a video up on thier web site
http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=ab69f6ce-42c0-4185-b5c0-8a855df9ef0e&f=00
Foot in mouth, by Kerry. |
Haight-Strawbury
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 6721
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 11:25 pm: |
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Don't blame me, I voted for Bush..
There's nothing like being on the ocean!
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Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 927
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 11:43 pm: |
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Heres a good one--
http://www.youtube.com/w/Bush-screwups?v=IAuZPPeiH1s&search=George%20Bush%20president%20speech
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slipknot (slippy)
Citizen
Username: Zotts
Post Number: 243
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 8:23 am: |
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Yeah I can see how this is worse than getting all those people killed for slipping up about WMD. And Hate I do blame you for voting for Bush, as will your child and every other child in this country in time.
Worst President Ever. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 303
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 9:12 am: |
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Has nothing to do with GW's flubs, this threads about Kerry, and how the man (in pre-arranged morning speech, 10 hours AFTER the completion of the State of the Union) in response.....made this claim with a straight face....He either has a speech writer that has a sense of humor, or is flat out ignorant to the basics. ("Turn the plane around, I have to go see my favorite red-sox player Manny Rodriguez play"...duh.
If the man thinks that the Average American is working 2-3 jobs (they aren't) and doesn't graduate high school (they do) he's severely out of touch.
Please Please Please, for the sake of the country, do NOT put this idiot up for another run in 2008. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 1899
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 9:54 am: |
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actually, it's legit to bring up W's egregious errors on just about everything in response when the people who criticize Kerry (not president) are willing to give Bush (president) a free pass on not knowing anything about anything. as I stated above, I'm all for holding all elected officials to the same standards. unfortunately, the right wing nuts have completely abdicated the right to criticize Democrats for making erros by letting GW slide on the most serious mistakes a president can possibly make. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 305
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 9:59 am: |
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Dr. Boogie, this is a Kerry thread...if you want to create a GW bush thread with all his flubs, have at it. I'm sure it will be lengthy and funny. Giving Bush a free pass on Flubs has no bearing on this topic or this thread.
Kerry is a boob.....continue..... |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 1900
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
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I don't mean "funny flubs," I mean very serious, egregious factual errors - not knowing basic important facts that lead to bad decision making. the fact that Bush ignores all experts on all topics, even within his own State Department and CIA.
How about a bit of perspective? When the right wing gets all over Bush for all of his serious errors (WMD in Iraq, didn't anticipate the Iraqi insurgency, had no clue Hamas would win the Palestinian election, etc, etc.), then we can all take Kerry to task for not knowing what % of HS kids graduate.
that sounds fair to me.
and with regard to this being a "Kerry" thread, I checked the MOL rules of conduct, and there's nothing there that says the originator of a thread can dictate which way it drifts. and if it did, what would all the wing nuts do if they couldn't respond to criticism of W with a "but Clinton..."?
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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 306
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
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Dr. Boogie, you are as much a part of the problem that you just laid out. How can I even begin to engage in a conversation if the person you are trying to converse with keeps changing the subject? Ayn Rand had a problem with this back in the 60's, and her issue was that the dramatic movement away from Education (ie "Let the students teach themselves, self-taught learning trends, etc") would eliminate the ability to engage in a logical, conversation and debate, resulting in the breakdown of democracy.
This thread is about Kerry's statements yesterday morning. Your response to everything is "Well GW needs to be taken to task...." which means you are clearly disinterested in discussing anything in this thread, and you are trying to promote a discussion around what YOU want to talk about. Kind of like your 90 y/o grandfather whose bitching about the "country going to hell", when everyone at the dinner table is talking about the Football game this afternoon.
There's a very clear and easy format to engage in a conversation about GW's flubs and needing to be taken to task...it's called A BRAND NEW THREAD....All you need to do is click the little link on the bottom that says START NEW THREAD.
Trust me, it's easy. And somebody might listen to you. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 1901
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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what's to discuss? the guy made an error. he was way off on something he should have known.
is anyone going to say it's good to not know your facts? if all you wanted was a discussion of that, it would be over pretty quickly.
and I think it's legitimate to put Kerry's mistake into perspective. we live in a country where the most egregious errors result in Medals of Freedom for people like George Tenet and Paul Bremer. but the wing nuts will rake Kerry or Gore over the coals for stupid mistakes that don't cause any grievous harm to the country.
what was the damage it caused? even if he had won the presidency, what harm would it have done for him to not know that fact? don't you think someone would have corrected him? and do you think that like Bush, he'd refuse to be open to being corrected?
and is the actual fact that 15% of our kids don't graduate something to be proud of? I don't think so, so his essential point - that too many kids don't graduate - is valid whether the actual percentage is 53% or 15%.
so what's your point? |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 307
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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My point is as follows: Kerry (and those that support him) continue to try and invent/create problems and support them with bizarre and false twists of facts. Given the issues we have that are REAL today, this is not only ignorant, but it's unnecessary. Kerry didn't make a simple FLUB of the numbers here. It was his entire argument and point of the conversation, and his intention to paint a picture of Americans working 2-3 jobs to get their kids educated, yet only succeeding 50% of the time.
If you can't recognize the difference between an 85% graduation rate, and a 50% graduation (and the outrage of one vs. the other), than any sort of discussion with you on any topic will prove challenging at best.
It's the whole reason Bush was elected in 2000....we've returned to FUZZY MATH techniques, trying to make claims of atrocities where they just don't exist.
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Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 1902
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 11:09 am: |
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then maybe you should have a) said that, and b) provided a better quote to illustrate your point. the quote you cited said too many kids don't graduate (true, even if it's only 15% and not 53%), and that they don't have enough after school programs (may or not be true).
and are Democrats running around the country trying to drum up outrage on education? really? Kerry's response was to Bush using his big moment, the SOTU, to talk about reforms that he thinks are needed for education.
if you can cite other instances of what you say I'd certainly agree that misusing and twisting statistics is a terrible thing for politicians to do. but when it comes to using fuzzy numbers to make a case, no one surpasses Bush (oops, I've done it again, sorry).
so again, some perspective. I'll get as outraged as you about the misstatements of one Democratic senator, but only after we as a country hold the most powerful people in our government accountable for their even more serious and willful misrepresentations of reality. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 628
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 7:30 pm: |
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It sucks to be good liberal and have to defend these liberal-lites doesn't it? |
Eponymous
Citizen
Username: Eponymous
Post Number: 58
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
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SJ wrote:
you can't recognize the difference between an 85% graduation rate, and a 50% graduation
If you want to be precise, be precise: the graduation rate isn't 85%, nor did Kerry say 50%.
The stat being cited here is the number of Americans between 20 and 24 who have a HS degree, as I stated above. Likewise, for some groups, the HS grad rate is in the 50%'s.
None of which means that Kerry was right.
(MS uses a stupid check to tell whether a browser can view their video, so I can't see it on my Mac. Is there another source?) |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 932
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 3, 2006 - 5:24 pm: |
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Eponymous
IIRC Your MAC needs MS SW for the MAC that runs Windows Media.
I searched and did not find a quicktime version
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=ab69f6ce-42c0-4185-b5c0-8a855df9ef0e&f=
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Eponymous
Citizen
Username: Eponymous
Post Number: 60
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 4, 2006 - 12:01 am: |
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Foj,
My Mac (not all caps, it's an abbreviation, not an acronym) has WMP installed. I can play most any video I can get to. It's the scripting on the webpage that says I can't see the video, either rightly or wrongly. |
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