| Author | Message | ||
     Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 622 Registered: 10-2005 |
Any thoughts on this issue... Protestors storm Danish embassy in Jakarta By Paivi Munter in Stockholm, Martin Arnold in Paris and Bertrand Benoit in Berlin Published: February 2 2006 20:48 | Last updated: February 3 2006 11:33 Angry protestors besieged a building housing the Danish embassy in Indonesia on Friday as more European newspapers reprinted cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad that have caused outrage across the Islamic world. The international dispute escalated into a consumer boycott and risked the gravest cultural clash with the Muslim world since the Salman Rushdie affair. Publication of the cartoons in Spain, Italy, France, Germany and the Netherlands triggered condemnation in the Muslim and Arab world, where consumers turned their anger on Danish companies. Spain’s El Pais ran the cartoons on its front page on Friday. Arla, the dairy company based in Denmark, where the cartoons were first published, admitted on Thursday its sales in some Middle East countries had fallen to zero. Carrefour, the French retailer, said it had removed Danish products from shelves in its Middle East operations. Other Danish companies targeted in the boycott include Lego, the toymaker, and Novo Nordisk, the pharmaceuticals company. Muslims attack Danish embassy building in Jakarta Click here As popular protests spread, the leaders of Egypt and Afghanistan warned the cartoons had offended millions of Muslims and could be exploited by terrorists in their war against the west. Up to 300 militant Muslims attacked the Danish embassy in Jakarta on Friday. The protestors dispersed after an hour and there were no arrests. “Any insult to the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) is an insult to more than 1bn Muslims and an act like this must never be allowed to be repeated,” said Hamid Karzai, Afghan president, strong western ally and moderate Muslim leader. Gunmen in Gaza surrounded the local European Union office and threatened to kidnap citizens of countries where newspapers had published the cartoons. For a round-up of global reaction to this story, click here Ursula Plassnik, foreign minister of Austria, which holds the rotating EU presidency, said she understood the offence Muslims felt, adding that EU leaders needed to “clearly condemn” acts that insult religion. Kofi Annan, the United Nations secretary-general, said he believed “freedom of the press should always be exercised in a way that fully respects the religious beliefs and tenets of all religions”. The dispute began on September 30, when Jyllands-Posten, Denmark’s biggest newspaper, published 12 cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, a move considered blasphemous in Islam. One of the cartoons showed the Prophet with a bomb under his turban. The Danish newspaper later apologised but the row escalated this week after several European newspapers reprinted the cartoons to assert the right to free speech. Most daily UK newspapers decided not to reproduce the cartoons on Thursday. One cartoon appeared on The Spectator’s website but was quickly taken down. The French government criticised France Soir, the first French newspaper to reprint the images. In Germany, religious and minority representatives sought to calm after Die Welt, the conservative daily, reprinted the cartoons on Wednesday. | ||
| Fruitcake Citizen Username: Fruitcake Post Number: 261 Registered: 9-2003 |
I get so weary of radical Muslims who put on the masks and get out the guns whenever their sensibilities are offended. What kind of way is that to solve problems? Medieval is the answer. Why can't they be like Pat Robertson instead? Get a talk show, stare straight into the camera, and tell the infidels they'll burn in hell for offending God. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1246 Registered: 10-2002  |
Radicals of any religion tend to be humorless and intolerant. I don't want to be disrespectful, but I can't help but roll my eyes every time I hear a story about how outraged people are when the Koran was mistreated (whether intentionally or unintentionally) or that they don't like a friggen cartoon. How may bibles have been burned in hotel fires or been thrown out when replaced with new ones? How many cartoons have depicted the God of Christianity or Judaism? I certainly wouldn't try to offend anyone by doing something that I know they would find offensive, but I'm sorry - I just can't muster up the empathy on a story like this... | ||
| Threeringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2006 |
That guy in Iran with the long name is starting to make Pat Robertson look like a board member of SMPA. Cheers | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2005 |
Well attended protests of "outrage" over drawings. A few lonely voices of dissent criticizing beheadings. Interesting. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 315 Registered: 10-2005 |
I get weary of this type of behavior being ascribed to Radical Muslims only. Eventually, we will wake-up to the fact that these aren't small insignificant radical factions of Islam, rather these are very large percentages of the Middle East Muslim Populations. Many of the peaceful Muslims have LEFT (because it SUX there, and they don't embrace the violence like so many in that region do). Only when the average american realizes that this behavior is NOT the Timothy McVeighs and David Koresh's of the world, but rather representative of the Average Middle-Eastern individual's beliefs, will we truly be able to comprehend the challenges that lie ahead. Until then, most Americans will just roll their eyes, and muse about how silly they are. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1452 Registered: 3-2004 |
MBJ has hit the nail on the head (and I am NOT trying to pun). | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1483 Registered: 8-2004  |
The US media has chosen not to show these cartoons out of "respect for Islam." I think it is more out of fear than respect. I think that MOL should also refrain from posting these cartoons out of fear of protest. Could you imagine the images that would be streaming out of the Village Cam? | ||
| aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 698 Registered: 8-2001 |
Amen, Smarty Jones. It's about time someone said that. | ||
| Eric Wertheim Citizen Username: Bub Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2005 |
One thing you notice is that honor is more important than life and limb in the Arab/Muslim world. We kill civilians in air raids and we get some protests. But publish a cartoon or (allegedly) pee on the Koran and the whole place goes apeshit. | ||
| Threeringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2006 |
Here are the cartoons in question: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=12146 Finally, something useful from Human Events. Cheers | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 2981 Registered: 9-2001  |
And where is the protest when Arab newspapers and schoolbooks and and movies and televisions shows and imams call Jews "dogs" and spread blood libel about Jews like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and say that the Jewish people should be pushed into the sea? As most of you know, I am all for reasonable dialogue and trying to rationally solve problems, but I have no tolerance for all these hypocrites in the Middle East. And, besides, some of the cartoons are funny in the way that all political humor is funny--there is enough truth in them that if it hurts, perhaps they need to look in the mirror. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12312 Registered: 1-2003  |
If a cartoon depicted Jesus as a devil, there'd be some outrage from Christians, too. And then they would be the clueless people. My point is to agree with LilLB about religious zealots. | ||
| Eric Wertheim Citizen Username: Bub Post Number: 175 Registered: 1-2005 |
There's no "if' about it Tom. We regularly have bouts of insults and outrage in our society. The outraged express their oytrage and then everyone goes home and waits for the next entertaining pseudo-controversy. The outraged here don't go around in mobs with guns looking to kidnap the countrymen or kin of the offender. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 319 Registered: 10-2005 |
Tom, untrue....there are funny/satyrical Jesus depictions ALL the time, and the only time I have ever seen any outrage in this country was when and Artist launched an entire art-show depicting Jesus/crucifix in Jars of Urine (or something to that effect). The outrage was driven from the fact that it was funded by Federal Dollars (for Art programs). I don't think there is any comparrison, in any way, whatsoever. | ||
| Threeringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2006 |
This is better than the Danish Cartoons: http://islamcomicbook.com/ Cheers | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10527 Registered: 5-2001 |
Islam takes the no graven images prohibition very seriously. Mohammad is never depicted in any Islamic art and in the Koran he isn't even described. Nobody knows if he was tall or short, thin or fat or even if he was black or white. Personally, I feel that nothing is accomplished by not respecting their religious prohibitions. | ||
| Threeringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2006 |
I disagree with Bob K. Denmark, Europe and the US should not apologize or truckle to Moslems. If they don't like the West, let them return to their desert homelands. I think I will buy a Danish ham today. Ibn Wariq shows what is at stake in this article from Der Speigel: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,398853,00.html Democracy in a Cartoon By Ibn Warraq Best-selling author and Muslim dissident Ibn Warraq argues that freedom of expression is our western heritage and we must defend it against attacks from totalitarian societies. If the west does not stand in solidarity with the Danish, he argues, then the Islamization of Europe will have begun in earnest. The great British philosopher John Stuart Mill wrote in On Liberty, "Strange it is, that men should admit the validity of the arguments for free discussion, but object to their being 'pushed to an extreme'; not seeing that unless the reasons are good for an extreme case, they are not good for any case." The cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten raise the most important question of our times: freedom of expression. Are we in the west going to cave into pressure from societies with a medieval mindset, or are we going to defend our most precious freedom -- freedom of expression, a freedom for which thousands of people sacrificed their lives? A democracy cannot survive long without freedom of expression, the freedom to argue, to dissent, even to insult and offend. It is a freedom sorely lacking in the Islamic world, and without it Islam will remain unassailed in its dogmatic, fanatical, medieval fortress; ossified, totalitarian and intolerant. Without this fundamental freedom, Islam will continue to stifle thought, human rights, individuality; originality and truth. Unless, we show some solidarity, unashamed, noisy, public solidarity with the Danish cartoonists, then the forces that are trying to impose on the Free West a totalitarian ideology will have won; the Islamization of Europe will have begun in earnest. Do not apologize. This raises another more general problem: the inability of the West to defend itself intellectually and culturally. Be proud, do not apologize. Do we have to go on apologizing for the sins our fathers? Do we still have to apologize, for example, for the British Empire, when, in fact, the British presence in India led to the Indian Renaissance, resulted in famine relief, railways, roads and irrigation schemes, eradication of cholera, the civil service, the establishment of a universal educational system where none existed before, the institution of elected parliamentary democracy and the rule of law? What of the British architecture of Bombay and Calcutta? The British even gave back to the Indians their own past: it was European scholarship, archaeology and research that uncovered the greatness that was India; it was British government that did its best to save and conserve the monuments that were a witness to that past glory. British Imperialism preserved where earlier Islamic Imperialism destroyed thousands of Hindu temples. On the world stage, should we really apologize for Dante, Shakespeare, and Goethe? Mozart, Beethoven and Bach? Rembrandt, Vermeer, Van Gogh, Breughel, Ter Borch? Galileo, Huygens, Copernicus, Newton and Darwin? Penicillin and computers? The Olympic Games and Football? Human rights and parliamentary democracy? The west is the source of the liberating ideas of individual liberty, political democracy, the rule of law, human rights and cultural freedom. It is the west that has raised the status of women, fought against slavery, defended freedom of enquiry, expression and conscience. No, the west needs no lectures on the superior virtue of societies who keep their women in subjection, cut off their clitorises, stone them to death for alleged adultery, throw acid on their faces, or deny the human rights of those considered to belong to lower castes. How can we expect immigrants to integrate into western society when they are at the same time being taught that the west is decadent, a den of iniquity, the source of all evil, racist, imperialist and to be despised? Why should they, in the words of the African-American writer James Baldwin, want to integrate into a sinking ship? Why do they all want to immigrate to the west and not Saudi Arabia? They should be taught about the centuries of struggle that resulted in the freedoms that they and everyone else for that matter, cherish, enjoy, and avail themselves of; of the individuals and groups who fought for these freedoms and who are despised and forgotten today; the freedoms that the much of the rest of world envies, admires and tries to emulate." When the Chinese students cried and died for democracy in Tiananmen Square (in 1989) , they brought with them not representations of Confucius or Buddha but a model of the Statue of Liberty." Freedom of expression is our western heritage and we must defend it or it will die from totalitarian attacks. It is also much needed in the Islamic world. By defending our values, we are teaching the Islamic world a valuable lesson, we are helping them by submitting their cherished traditions to Enlightenment values. Cheers | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 2987 Registered: 9-2001 |
Amen to that--one of the best defenses of Western democracy I have seen. Of course, now he is going to be killed by some extremist who disagrees with his views and will prosecute to death his attempts to exercise his rights of free speech. That is, if an extremist is even allowed to see this, since it will not show up in any Islamic magazine or newspaper with wide readership. Someday the Arab world is going to wake up to realize that its "leaders" are using Islam and extremism to maintain their control, power, and perks, and to keep the majority downtrodden and internally docile. But before that happens, a whole lotta people are gonna be misled, and a lot of innocent people are going to die. Sad, sad, sad. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10532 Registered: 5-2001 |
No arguement the Danish paper has a right to publish want they what. However, personally I have enough sensitivity to avoid insulting others believes. I have no problem satarizing politicians, Islamic or otherwise, but respecting other religions seems like a no brainer to me. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1866 Registered: 6-2003  |
Perhaps these outraged Moslems could look through their own newspapers and show the world some examples of religious tolerance. I'm sure they have much to teach us. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 322 Registered: 10-2005 |
I happen to Agree with Bob K WHOLEHEARTEDLY, and we dare not disrespect their religous prohibitions....I'm particularly obsessed with the fact that we allow (yes, I said ALLOW) our women in public without Fully covered bodies.... I for one, have purchased head-to-toe scarves (or whatever the f*** you call them) for my wife and daughter who have begun to wear them in public places...(you will see them on Maple Ave from time to time). Even though I'm a Methodist, I do this out of RESPECT for their beliefs. In return, I am not going to ask them to respect MY religion. I am only going to ask them to stop sawing off the heads of living people, and also filming that RELIGOUS PROCEDURE for world-wide distribution on the internet or al-jazeera. Bob, talk to me about what other religous KOOKS whose practices you think we should respect? Your twisted, ignorant acceptance of this morbid religion (disguised as tolerance) is the reason why it continues to march on unfettered in this world, and why each year millions upon millions of women become enslaved to the horrid practises of the men in Islamic society. | ||
| jonnyt Citizen Username: Jonnyt Post Number: 202 Registered: 6-2001 |
damn those religious fundamentalists. i'm so glad i don't live in a country where a fundamentalist religious minority dictates what the rest of us can watch on TV or what women can or cannot do with their own bodies or whom you can or cannot marry | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 323 Registered: 10-2005 |
Jonnyt, if you lack the ability to distinguish the vast differences between American culture/society and Iranian/Saudi Arabian/etc. society, than I agree....YOU Jonnyt, are probably better off living there, Cuba, North Korea, or any other oppressive society that you likely glorify without basis or reason (again, disguised as open-mindedness or tolerance). | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8541 Registered: 4-1997  |
Not many religious COOKS when you think about it. The Iron Chefs seem kind of secular. Julia Child never droned on about religion. Martin Yan doesn't either. The Frugal Gourmet got into some legal trouble, so I doubt he was religious. Anthony Bourdain lists his religion as "other". | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2975 Registered: 5-2001  |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4677464.stm | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10536 Registered: 5-2001 |
The prohibition on depicting Mohammad isn't some sort of extremist point of view. It is one of the basic tenents of their religion, actually based on the old testament. Do I agree with it, no. Am I going to respect it because I can't come up with any reason not to respect it, yes. Nancy, the people who are protesting are doing so in predominately Islamic countries such as Indonesia and Pakistan. How would you feel if someone posted a cartoon of someone shitting on a Torah. Basically, I think your reaction would be similar to many Muslims to the cartoon in question. I wouldn't be happy with a rape cartoon featuring the Virgin Mary either btw. Smarty, up until the last couple of years we required that military women wear Hajib in Saudi Arabia. No, I don't like the idea either. If you want respect, you have to grant respect to others and boy am I going to set you people off with this one. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 324 Registered: 10-2005 |
Bob, interestingly enough, the images you conjure up are not only quite imaginative, but far more inflamatory than the ones depicted in the cartoons. Yet still they would be legal and accepted (with outrage from the furthest corners of society) in most western cultures. I think it's eye opening that when people try and make a point to support this quacky religion, you have to create examples such as Bob's, in order to even come CLOSE to eliciting the same response. Bob, you are trying to find common ground where there is none, you are trying to make comparrisons when none can truly be made, and eventually you will wake-up to the reality that these people are behaving quite differently than anything we've encountered in our neck of the worlds. We have no moral, just, or legal obligation to accept it. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 325 Registered: 10-2005 |
I absolutely LOVE that quote Ms. Library Lady... | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10537 Registered: 5-2001 |
Smarty, to the average Muslim depicting Mohammad, especially with a bomb, is every bit as sacriligious as my admitedly rather imaginitive insults to other religions. | ||
| jonnyt Citizen Username: Jonnyt Post Number: 203 Registered: 6-2001 |
oh bravo smarty. move to Cuba blah, blah, blah. would that i had made a small wager that someone here would resort to that old chestnut, and so quickly too | ||
| kmk Supporter Username: Kmk Post Number: 955 Registered: 5-2001 |
My kids watched this video that had Jesus singing "I will survive" with Gloria Gainer's voice and then meeting an untimely ending. They laughed and laughed and then my 11 year old asked if it was legal to depict something like that in the US. Food for thought. (BTW: It is quite funny!) | ||
| kmk Supporter Username: Kmk Post Number: 956 Registered: 5-2001 |
OK ....does anyone know what the cartoon even looked like? | ||
| kmk Supporter Username: Kmk Post Number: 957 Registered: 5-2001 |
I just looked at the previous link...is it all of them or just one of them? | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2574 Registered: 6-2002 |
The Frugal Gourmet got into some legal trouble, so I doubt he was religious. You are mistaken, Dave. He was a Methodist Minister before he was a TV chef. | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2978 Registered: 5-2001 |
BobK, tho some of the protests are in Islamic countries, the cartoons ran in Spain, Italy, France, Germany and the Netherlands as well as Denmark. Would I object to a cartoon as you descibed? Sure, but not to the extent of burning down any embassies. It would be good to see these same protesters up in arms over the truely pornagraphic Islamic images of suicide bombers killing innocents and kidnap victims being held and beheaded in the name of Allah. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2006 |
The truth is now out there. Hey BobK, that wasn't excrement that flew into the World Trade Center, Pentagon and crashed flight 93 on 9/11. And you know it. Or caused the 93 bombing, or the Kenya embassy bombing, or the most recent Christian school girl beheadings in the Phillipines, or, well, if you must, go the the website: thereligionofpeace.com, for more actions done by non-excrement, in the name of Allah the benificent. If you continue to bury your head in the sand, you won't see the caliphate lovers' coming for you. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2006 |
No insults to any religious figures of their religion are needed; their bible, the Koran, justifies it all. We are unbelievers, and must be conquered and converted, or killed. If we are allowed to live, we must pay a special tax, the jizyra, and live as second class citizens, subject to daily discrimination, forever. Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. I learned my history. Did you? jd | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2582 Registered: 6-2002 |
So, Joel, you have studied the Koran? Explain the following: When Ferdinand and Isabella, King and Queen of Spain, known to all as "Los Reyes Catolicas", The Catholic Monarchs, decreed the expulsion of the entire Jewish population of Spain, why was it that those Jews were given refuge by the Musilm Sultan of Turkey, and continued to enjoy a privileged status living in the lands of the Muslim Turks for the next five hundred years? | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 326 Registered: 10-2005 |
Anon, what does "Koran Trivia" have to do with the basic points within this discussion? Are we now expected to be well versed in the worlds 10,000 religions? Or just Islam now? Is my ignorance to the verses within the Koran make me responsible for the violence/rioting/protests now being witnessed across Europe and the Middle East because of a series of cartoons? |
