| Author | Message | ||
     Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 551 Registered: 2-2003 |
Protect the Constitution Tomorrow at Maplewood and South Orange Train Stations Tomorrow, Wednesday February 22d, from 6:00 am to 9:00 am at the Maplewood and South Orange Train Stations, there will be a Protect the Constitution event sponsored by MoveOn, the ACLU and People for the American Way. We'll hold a brief vigil with signs, read the Bill of Rights and those who wish can make brief personal statements. Then we'll distribute flyers to commuters calling for Congressional hearings on President Bush's program of warrantless wiretapping of Americans by the NSA. Please join for whatever time you can contribute. There are currently seven volunteers at each station, but more are needed to adequately cover all the entrances of the train stations. I'm hosting the Maplewood event and Ginny Brown is hosting the South Orange event. If would be a great help if you can let us know in advance when you can come. You can sign up for the event at these MoveOn links: http://political.moveon.org/event/events/event.html?event_id=7833 (Maplewood) http://political.moveon.org/event/events/event.html?event_id=8037 (South Orange) Or call me at 973-763-9493 or email me at paul4sure@aol.com | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 366 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dude, you've got a lot of nerve....the LAST thing I want to hear on my way to work at 6 AM in the morning is some blithering idiot ranting on and on about something that has nothing to do with the type of business going on in my train station. Unless you are giving me a free coffee and a donut, I would suggest you hold your amateur vigil elsewhere, or arrive at 6:06 AM (one minute after I'm gone). Better yet, why don't you come knocking door to door at dinner time? Or even easier, hire a bunch of High School kids to bother me with phone calls? Here's my personal statement (one day early).....I've no more interest in hearing your diatribe than I have in listening to an unwelcome Jehova's Witness sermon at my door, or an Evangelical spouting off about who has touched my soul. Shall we invite the Harry Krishna's tomorrow to pass out flyers? How dare you suggest that you represent the ACLU, yet ignore MY privacy by sticking your nose in my business 45 minutes after I've rolled out of bed. TAKE YOUR SELF-SERVING GRANDSTANDING SOMEWHERE THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT TO HEAR YOU. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1554 Registered: 8-2004  |
Smarty, you know that the 6:00 AM NJT transit train will be delayed tomorrow. Actually the event could be somewhat entertaining. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 552 Registered: 2-2003 |
Smarty Jones, Please be assured that the flyers will be offered to everyone, but not forced upon anyone. No one will invade your personal space. Do you raise similar objections to the political candidates and community groups who pass out flyers at the train station? | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 375 Registered: 10-2005 |
First of all, your own advertisement suggests a lot more than passing out flyers. In your own words, your "Event" is to include "a brief vigil with signs, read the Bill of Rights and those who wish can make brief personal statements. Then we'll distribute flyers...." In my years of commuting, I've not encountered any community groups or political candidates with that agressive of an agenda to take place at the train station. If George W. or Hillary Clinton, or Sen/Gov Corzine, Fred the Mayor, or anyone running for the coming Board of Ed. elections, wishes to come to the train station, hand me a flyer and share their goals, I'll absolutely listen and shake their hand. You clearly fail to see the difference between the two examples, and will continue to fool yourself into believing that you are "Changing Hearts and Minds" | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 791 Registered: 10-2005 |
Paul- If I recall correctly, you are a Roe supporter right? If so, then you are going to try and convince me and others tomorrow morning that you and your crew are "protecting the Constitution"? How about my 2nd right amendments, are you protecting those rights too? Please...if I need my constitutional rights protected the last place I am going to look is MoveOn/ACLU. I'll be sure to introduce myself tomorrow morning though. How about some free coffee?  -SLK | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2005 |
Just make sure the trains aren't held up while you're "protecting the Constitution". Thanks. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5211 Registered: 8-2003 |
Scrotis nails it. Encroachments on political free speech, eminent domain, the 2nd Amendment and the abortion known as "Roe" I would anticipate not being part of the event's focus. | ||
| drewdix Citizen Username: Drewdix Post Number: 1130 Registered: 7-2001 |
cjc, Quite a set of assumptions. why not approach the folks at the event with an open mind and then judge? | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 793 Registered: 10-2005 |
drew- why do we need to do that when we can go right to the websites? -SLK | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 376 Registered: 10-2005 |
Drew, do you (and others) have no concept of what being a good neighbor means? We live together, if you are hellbent on discussing your views with me, bring it up at the pub....invite me to dinner....talk to me about it at the drycleaner...discuss it with me at the block party we had last summer....Why on earth you insist on Annoying your very own Neighbors on their way to work is beyond me. This type of attitude and behavior represents the very worst in our community. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5213 Registered: 8-2003 |
I always hold that my assumptions could be wrong and then I'd be pleasantly surprised. I'm pretty sure Moveon.org won't be doing that for me. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1938 Registered: 8-2003  |
The website says they need volunteers for:
wow, that sounds pretty damn intrusive. I've never been handed a flyer at the train station before. But they're going to read the Bill of Rights too. That's pretty intrusive also, I guess. But not as intrusive as all the people who aren't smart enough to get their monthly passes by mail who block the entire station on the first day of the month. Get a grip fellas. I know some of you wish that dissenters would just shut up, but Paul and his group have every right to use public property for this demonstration. Knowing what I know of their group, I'm sure they'll be respectful of the commuters, won't be in anyone's face, and won't delay anyone getting to their trains. You might have to be exposed to a message you don't agree with, but you're all big boys. I think you can deal with it. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1761 Registered: 12-2003  |
Paul: Just curious...why gather at a New Jersey Transit station to call for Congressional hearings on the president's wiretapping program? Seems like Washington would be a better place to hold such a demonstration. Have you considered moving it closer to Congress? | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 794 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dr. O'Boogie- Should I sput the famous Voltaire quote? I have no problem with it, I just wish they would refrain from "protecting the Constitution" because in my mind (and others) they are not... I still hope I get some free coffe though! | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 377 Registered: 10-2005 |
This has nothing to do with dissenters not wanting to hear oppositive views, I probably agreem with many that will be espoused tomorrow. It's about intrusiveness, courtesy and respect for your neighbor. Casey, that's actually an interesting thought...is it legal to Demonstrate on Town property? Does it require a license or permit? I did a search of ordinances and learned that it's illegal to solicity/raise money for political campaigns/organizations, but nothing on straightforward demonstrations. I'm sure there's something? I trust MoveOn has secured all the necessary permits (provided they are required) for their use of Town Property tomorrow morning? I'm very interested in learning what the town permits/dissallows. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1939 Registered: 8-2003 |
smarty, why are you automatically assuming Paul's group will be rude or incourteous? They set up in town all the time, and are nothing if not respectful and couteous. Paul and his group are what all of us should be. Involved, informed, and active. If you're expecting some sort of unruly protest, you're not likely to see one. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 378 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dr., what difference does this make, how often they set-up, and whether or not you think bugging people on a train platform is rude or not? Why do you immediately assume that I'm not informed, involved and active? Because I don't want to be approached at 6 AM on my way in to work? Is the expection in life now that whenever a self-declared "Activist" has something to say to me, that I am obliged to listen, whether it's on the train platform, 6 AM, Midnight, at the Urinal, in bed with my wife, when I'm with my kid at the park....... | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 813 Registered: 10-2004  |
Its called freedom of speech. Perhaps you dont want to hear the message. I am sure that no one is going to approach you in the at midnight in the urinal in bed with your wife. When you are with your kids in a public park however is a perfect time for people with a message to try to deliver it. You should be thankful that you live in a country where this is not only allowed but is encouraged. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1578 Registered: 7-2004  |
Get over yourself, Smarty. No one is going to strap you down, pry your eyelids open with clothespins, and make you watch propaganda films, Clockwork Orange-style. A simple "no thanks" will probably work very well if someone tries to hand you something you don't want. Get your coffee and paper, get on the train and get on with your life. Though I suppose you'd rather log on to MOL and complain without end what a dastardly imposition has been made on your life... | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1940 Registered: 8-2003 |
I know I'm not going to convince you, so I won't try. But I will correct your factual errors. According to Paul's post, and the website, they won't be on the train platforms "bugging" you. They are standing at the station doors handing out flyers. It won't be any more intrusive than the school board candidates, TC candidates, or others distributing flyers at the station. and if they set up on the platforms for their speeches, I'm with you. That would be intrusive, and frankly really dangerous on a crowded train platform. But in a public place, you do have to be exposed to such things. Whether it's the LaRouche nuts outside the post office, the "lost tribes of Israel" guys in Times Square, NJPIRG handing out leaflets, etc, they have a right to speak their mind in a public facility. If you've got a problem with someone offering you a flyer, maybe you need some stress management, because that's not all that intrusive. | ||
| Oldstone Citizen Username: Rogers4317 Post Number: 548 Registered: 6-2004  |
smarty, make it easy on yourself. when you see paul and his group, don't look at them. they will "get" it. try and grimace when they intrusively try to hand you a flyer. imagine, being handed a flyer as you are walking into the station. oh, the injustice... gimme a break. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 796 Registered: 10-2005 |
...will they refrain from "protecting the Constitution"? Coffee? | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 797 Registered: 10-2005 |
"We'll hold a brief vigil with signs, read the Bill of Rights and those who wish can make brief personal statements. Then we'll distribute flyers to commuters calling for Congressional hearings on President Bush's program of warrantless wiretapping of Americans by the NSA." Ummm, hate to break it to you kiddos, but I believe these are already underway.... | ||
| Grrrrrrrrrrr Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2002  |
I'll be there tomorrow protesting FDR's illegal wiretapping... | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 78 Registered: 1-2006 |
What about JKF's? Wait, without FDR"s, we wouldn't have had a chance at all of doing what was done: breaking the Purple and Magic codes used by Japan before and during the war. jd | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 799 Registered: 10-2005 |
Well I'll be there tomorrow protesting all the protestors!!!!  Protesting is for people too cheap to pay for therapy.... -SLK | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 379 Registered: 10-2005 |
Ladies and Gentleman of all ages....your Turn-the-other-cheek/Just-look-away advice is ridiculous. This isn't a Radio station or a TV channel to be turned off. There's a reason they are hosting these sessions at the crack of dawn at Train stations...it's to get in front of people who don't want to be gotten in front of. It's why they are up and rallying at 6 AM in the morning. Piping on about Freedom of Speech is quite convenient when it supports a cause or a message you want delivered. There's a time and place for it. I grew up outside of a community in PA that allowed the KKK to parade every year, under the same perverted concept; what you need to understand is that there's a profound difference between being free of prosecution for your views and your speech (whether in print or verbal) versus being permitted to demonstrate whenever/where-ever you please, as you see fit. I'm willing to bet that Hoops, Robert L, Boogie or Oldstone aren't daily train commuteres...so you could care-less about what goes on at the station, and it's very easy to take such a blaise attitude toward this demonstration. Would you view this with the same light-heartedness if the cause were something far more controversial (use your own imagination here) or god-forbid religous? I didn't say this should be illegal, or that they should be arrested...I'm just pointing out that they will merely succeed in annoying the majority of people on the platform during their stay, which very well might be their objective. "I'm Mad..YOU SHOULD be Mad!" Is that the goal Paul? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10762 Registered: 5-2001 |
Paul, sometimes I almost feel sorry for you. | ||
| Oldstone Citizen Username: Rogers4317 Post Number: 552 Registered: 6-2004 |
i commute every day. i couldn't care less who is doing what at the train station. i ignore those that i want to without much thought. it's as simple as that. why turn it into a federal case? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 814 Registered: 10-2004 |
Its true, I am no longer a daily train commuter. I do not think that has any bearing on my position though. I dont find it an inconvenience to see protesters of any kind chanting or marching or heaven forbid handing out leaflets. If a person tries to hand me a leaflet and I dont want it I just dont take it. If a person wants to proselitize, I dont pay any mind to it. If a die-hard racist spits vitriol and hate, I dislike it but I do not protest the right to it. Life is full of little inconveniences - I happen to agree with the position of this protest/information sharing activity - but that does not mean that if I didnt agree I would be against it. Public spaces are perfect for public speeches. | ||
| Flameretardant Citizen Username: Flameretardant Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2004 |
Smarty, I don't usually post on MOL - more of a casual observer - but I couldn't help but respond to this thread. I *am* a train commuter (usually on the 7:01 MTD). I've lived in Mwood for years, and taken an early morning train each day. And you know what? If someone shoves some propaganda at me tomorrow morning, it's really not going to ruin my day. Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone who takes the train into NYC (I assume you take it there?) would get so bent out of shape by a leafleter, regardless of their political opinion. Sounds pretty thin-skinned to me. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 380 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hoops you make very good points. You and I simply have a different vision/hope of what the neighborhood/village you call home, should be. (and yes, I get it non-stop in Manhattan...it's why I live here, no longer there). | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1424 Registered: 9-2004 |
Smarty, Don't even compare the KKK group who spews hatred to a peace group voicing their disagreement with unwarranted wiretaping. A HUGE difference. I went to one of Paul's vigil's (the one for Augie last summer) and they are NOT the " blithering idiot ranting and intrusive" folks as you described. Far from it. If you don't want a flyer… just keep on steppin. If you don't want to hear… tune OUT. Simple. Should I be mad? Heck NO! Informed… YES! BTW… I am at the station just after 6:00 AM everyday, commuting to NYC. Phenix | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1941 Registered: 8-2003 |
smarty, fwiw, I do commute by train every day (how do you think I know how annoying the first day of the month ticket line is). I've worked in NYC for the better part of two decades, so I'm pretty used to people handing me leaflets for everything from mayoral candidates, to Love's pharmacy, to Flash Dancers. I'm also used to anti-abortion demonstrators, political wackos, and demonstrators of all types right in front of the buildings I've worked in. Yeah, it can be annoying, especially the guys who are out there on a regular schedule. But it's part of living in a free society. Places like train stations, malls, and parks are our town squares. If Paul's group can't have a small rally on public property when other people are going to be there, what is the use of the right to assembly? All of the wing nuts make fun of people who share Paul's point of view. They say that dissenters just gather themselves and preach to their respective choirs. But then when they make a good faith effort to take their message out beyond other people who agree with them, and do it in a respectful manner, people like you object. If they are truly going to exercise their right to free expression, they need to get out where people will see them. Too bad you can't keep yourself in a bubble all day, so you'll just have to avoid the station tomorrow and go straight to the platform, or you'll have to endure someone (gasp!) offering you a leaflet. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 382 Registered: 10-2005 |
Phenix- First of all, I didn't make any such comparrison. Second of all, I think you've demonstrated an excellent point which is that different groups are certainly held to different standards, and clearly if this were a cause you disagreed with, you'd be far less supportive of the effort. I couldn't have put it any better myself. And so ado | ||
| Oldstone Citizen Username: Rogers4317 Post Number: 554 Registered: 6-2004 |
adieu | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 383 Registered: 10-2005 |
I hate when I misspell things after a Point I'm proud of....DOH. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1762 Registered: 12-2003 |
I see no problem with the gathering. I just don't know what it accomplishes. A bunch of people who already believe the same thing getting together to tell each other as much. Then going home to their granite countertops. I guess it makes people feel like they're fighting the establishment, or bringing an end to the war, or somehow improving civil rights. But there was a reason the March on Washington happened in Washington. | ||
| Stevef Citizen Username: Stevef Post Number: 172 Registered: 5-2005  |
It's probably a cost effective way of reaching a lot of people with a message. |
