| Author | Message | ||
     Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1803 Registered: 8-2003  |
News Alert on cnn.com Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.S. ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about security."  | ||
| Paris Hiltonberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6825 Registered: 10-2001  |
You really need to read the complete transcript so you can better understand the point the president was trying to make. This as opposed to simply reading the lower third chyron on a CNN (Clinton News Network) report. BUSH: "The more people learn about the transaction that has been scrutinized and approved by my government, the more they'll be comforted that our ports will be secure. Port security in the United States will be run by U.S. Customs and the United States Coast Guard. The management of some ports which heretofore had been managed by a foreign company will be managed by another company from a foreign land. And so people don't need to worry about security. This deal wouldn't go forward if we were concerned about the security for the United States of America. What I find interesting is that it's OK for a British company to manage some ports, but not OK for a company from a country that is also a valuable ally in the war on terror. The UAE has been a valuable partner in fighting the war on terror. A lot of goods are shipped from ports -- to the United States -- managed by this company. And again, I'll repeat to the American people: This wouldn't be going forward if we weren't certain that our ports would be secure. But I also want to remind folks that it's really important we not send mixed messages to friends and allies around the world as we combine -- put together a coalition to fight this war on terror. And so we will continue to talk to people in Congress and explain clearly why the decision was made. Many of those doing the explanations are around this table. And I want to thank them for bringing a sense of calm for this issue, as people understand the logic of the decision." You see the difference? He said the deal would not go forward if it meant less security. | ||
| Eric Wertheim Citizen Username: Bub Post Number: 185 Registered: 1-2005 |
And he's notihng if not a man of his word. Actually, the portthing is distracting from the real crisis which is Iraq heading into hyper-chaos. I am really curious about what the administration's plan B is for this scenario. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1804 Registered: 8-2003 |
Paris - I was just quoting exactly what cnn.com had on the home page of their website. Regardless of the lack of context, I am not comforted by the full transcript. Nor I am I comforted by the reassurance of Bush. There is an insentisivity to Americans who experienced 9/11 firsthand to even consider a partnership with UAE. 9/11 is not in the far-enough past for those wounds to have healed. You're telling me there is no other company equally qualified for the job?? Sorry. Methinks there is an agenda we, the people, are unaware of. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8744 Registered: 4-1997  |
Pippi, It's not a company that's buying the ports. It's another nation. A foreign government will be running the ports. That's leadership for you. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8745 Registered: 4-1997 |
From FOX: DP World is owned by the government of the United Arab Emirates, a loose federation of seven emirates on the Saudi Arabian peninsula. The State Department calls the UAE an ally in the War on Terror, but critics note that the Arab nation had ties to the terrorists prior to Sept. 11, 2001, and two of the terrorists, Marwan al-Shehhi and Fayez al-Hamadi, were born in that country. Opponents of the deal also argue that the FBI found that the UAE's banking system filtered much of the money used for the operational planning before the Sept. 11 attacks, and many of the hijackers traveled to the United States through the UAE. On top of that, the UAE was an important transfer point for shipments of smuggled nuclear components sent to Iran, North Korea and Libya by a Pakistani scientist. | ||
| Paris Hiltonberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6826 Registered: 10-2001 |
"Actually, the portthing is distracting from the real crisis which is Iraq heading into hyper-chaos." Eric is 100% correct. Iraq seems headed towards civil war now that beloved Mosques have become targets. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10780 Registered: 5-2001 |
A minor thing, but sometimes minor things make a difference. Bush refers to "my" government. Even LBJ always made it a point to use "your" in his comments. There may be safeguards, however, they were never communicated to Congress, the people or apparently Bush himself until after the fact. One way or another Dubai PW is going to learn a lot about our security procedures and even shipments of military equiptment, a lot of which goes through commercial ports these days. Dubai is in a lot of ways a wide open city state and the ruler, Shiek Rashid I believe, plays both ends against the middle. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 395 Registered: 10-2005 |
A foreign government that has a better track record of managing security risks of terrorism than our own. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 286 Registered: 5-2005  |
typical libs, accentuating the negative in Iraq. where's all the good news? I'll tell you where - suppressed by the liberal media. | ||
| Paris Hiltonberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6827 Registered: 10-2001 |
Dave, You may or may not be right. Frankly, I don't think anyone really fully understands what "management by a Dubai company" really means. If you say you do, you're not being truthful. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8746 Registered: 4-1997 |
I don't think Smarty means to say we should pay bribes to Al Qaida to not target us, but it kind of sounds like he wants us to emulate the way the Saudis manage risk. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 397 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dave, I didn't say either of those two things. If you have opinions, state them youself. Don't project them on others. You obviously have no clue what is entailed in managing the ports, border security, and multi-national involvement. Further, I daresay you have any clue about how the UAE manages their Ports, so you are reduced to lobbing ignorant stereotyping comments directed at Middle-Eastern nations. Do you believe that people of Middle-Eastern decent shouldn't be allowed to hold Federal Agent Security jobs as well? What about the local police force? How far will your racist beliefs go? More money funding terrorist related activity was filtered via the US banking system than the UAE, yet nobody cites that fact to support their views..... | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10781 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dubai PW is a state owned company, not a private enterprise which is the case with the prior operator. The fact that the company is owned by an Arab state is somewhat immaterial. I for one don't like security sensitive facilities being run by any foreign government. Apparently the "race card" was in the RNC daily release of talking points. Any port operator is going to maintain detailed records of what cargo is moved to where, who owns it,where incoming cargo comes from, its destination and ownership,etc. They need this for billing if nothing else. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 287 Registered: 5-2005 |
I wish this UAE story would go away. I support my president unequivocally. but I also believe countries are either with us or against us, and the evidence seems to show that the UAE has been with the evildoers. So until this story just dies out, I'm going to be really confused because I don't know whether the UAE should go in the "with us" category or in the "with the terrorists" category. but this is the cross that a thinking conservative must bear. the libs have it easy - knee jerk opposition to Bush. I have to think and try to figure out who the evildoers really are. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 1805 Registered: 8-2003 |
GOP are you against it or for it? you support the president unequivocally, and yet, you still suggest you have doubts. It's not going away, and the UAE may ultimately run the ports. Are you for this or against it? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1431 Registered: 9-2004 |
I have to think and try to figure out who the evildoers really are. Hmmm… I see one right in your avatar. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3234 Registered: 3-2004 |
The rationale offered by Bush for this sale is that without it, we would lose Dubai as a market for our goods. So actually, if we don't sell the ports to this company, we lose Dubai as an export customer. Isn't that a form of extortion? If they're such a great friend and ally, the should keep us as an exporter, even though we don't sell our ports to them. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2587 Registered: 12-2001  |
"Do you believe that people of Middle-Eastern decent shouldn't be allowed to hold Federal Agent Security jobs as well? What about the local police force? How far will your racist beliefs go? " That's just stupid. No one is talking about people, they're talking about governments. That dog won't hunt. Quit trying it, conservatives. The UAE has appeased Al Qaida with money and other concessions in the past. Is the port deal dangerous? Is it wrong? Beats me. Sure was stupid, though. Can't we get an American firm to undertake this work? I don't get it. We are seeing the incredible arrogance of G W Bush, and seeing him tangle with his own base, who have some pretty hard, populist attitudes about things. And what's with vigorously defending the deal and then having it revealed that he did't even know about it? There is something strange going on. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 821 Registered: 10-2004  |
Bush says it has been scrutinized by 'his' goverment. If so then why is congress so upset? I thought they were an equal partner in 'his' government. In any event the issue is exactly as Dave laid out. The company is not privately owned it is owned by a goverment that is duplicitous. On one hand they allow us access to their ports and feed us information about 'terrorists' etc, on the other hand they do the same for the 'terrorists'. Perfect middlemen blowing with the breeze. Allies or double agents? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1432 Registered: 9-2004 |
Actually, the port thing is distracting from the real crisis which is Iraq heading into hyper-chaos. Ditto! Sunni party quits Iraq government talks after mosque bombing More than 100 dead in recent attacks http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/23/iraq.main/index.html Dozens Slain in Iraq Sectarian Violence http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq Scores die amid Iraqi shrine fury Many Sunni mosques have been vandalised in Baghdad More than 100 people have been killed in Iraq in apparent revenge attacks after the bombing of a key Shia shrine. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4742188.stm Iraq's civil war nightmare “A civil war in Iraq would destroy the chances of the elected central government, which will be led and dominated by Shias when eventually it is formed.” The reason is that the holy places in the Middle East are very special for the people who consider them sacred, and that applies to all the different religions and sects. They are a vital part of the way that people see themselves. An attack on a shrine is a direct assault on the identity and rights of an entire community. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4741616.stm Even though discussing who's going to watch our ports is vital to OUR national security, all Hell is breaking loose in Iraq. BTW… on top of this port stuff, how is it that the Prez just finds out about this deal AFTER it was already decided? Who's REALLY running the show? | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 398 Registered: 10-2005 |
Themp, your response is typical of why this is in the news "Is the port deal dangerous? Is it wrong? Beats me." Those throwing barbs simply have no idea what/who is truly involved. Nor are they aware of any related historical/international precedent. All they needed to see was that ARABS were involved with our Ports, in order to go nuts about it. That's racist. When Ports were sold/managed to nordic Shipping countries for $1 leases, it didn't make one major headline. After you've done your research on the topic, I trust you will come to the same realization that it's news because it's Arabs, which is racist. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 830 Registered: 10-2005 |
So let me get this one straight. The Bush administration intentionally fed the media the port story (that they didn't know about) to divert attention away from the problems in Iraq... Yup, that makes sense.... Liberal logic-priceless!!!!  -SLK | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5226 Registered: 8-2003 |
themp -- are you saying the UAE government knowingly laundered money to get to terrorists? Or unknowingly, as we did with Noriega's drug money. People smuggle stuff through our ports. Can the US unionized stevedore's be trusted? And the Chinese are running terminals in Newark. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3241 Registered: 3-2004 |
So let me get this straight: You think liberals, who fought for civil rights for minorities at the helm of the fight for thirty years, are racist, because they don't want to sell our ports to another country. Typical con double-speak. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 835 Registered: 10-2005 |
tulip- fact: 90ish% of Congressional Republicans voted FOR the Civil Rights Act of 1964 while only 67ish% of Democrats did. Yup, some fighting...if you liberals would stop patronizing minorities for a second and see all the long term damaged it caused would be nothing short of miracle. Stop trying to decide what is best for others for once and take care of yourself, ok? -SLK By the way....what is the % of minorities living out in your neck of the woods? Can I take a guess? -SLK | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5088 Registered: 10-1999  |
In responding to Tulip's point, questioning the accusation that liberals were racist, SLK wrote - The last time (or, maybe one of the last times) he wrote something similar, we had a little discussion about how relevent that was to a discussion of today's political parties - http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3127&post=522731#POST5227 31 And your line was "I do stand corrected" ... | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3243 Registered: 3-2004 |
We had Republicans red-lining our neighborhoods for years. They still red-line, but fortunately, their not allowed to any more, because of federal and state laws about fair housing. So the minority percentage is gradually climbing, thanks to the militancy of my parents and others in their generation, who worked through Fair Housing Council to root out discrimination in housing. The percentage of minorities is low, compared to Maplewood. You are what's known as a "first suburb" and we are an ex=urb. I'm not proud of it. That's why I spent over a year hiking from here to Maplewood to work there. But we're not hicks. It's a region hampered by ancient home rule and Republican right wing shackles for centuries. That's their excuse. Personally, I enjoyed living in Morristown and New York City much more than here, but I do like being in the country. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 836 Registered: 10-2005 |
nohero- you are right and I am wrong again. The Dems are god's gift to minorities. Carry on.... -SLK | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 399 Registered: 10-2005 |
I am waiting for the first person to admit the truth about what bothers them about this, which is not that port management was sold from one qualified, capable international entitity, to another qualified, capable international entity; rather, it's time you admitted that your problem is with Arabs. (which, I am learning, racism as it applies to Middle Eastern people doesn't count in the mind of a Liberal Democrat) UAE ranks hire than China on both Democracy, Press Freedom, Human Rights and Corruption. Where is the outrage toward the Chinese managed ports??? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8747 Registered: 4-1997 |
This issue isn't about race, folks. Pay attention. Dubai has long been a transacting point for terror funds. It's also the least democratic nation on Earth, which means power is concentrated in a few hands. Our security should not rely on a few guys in Dubai with a shady past and no oversight from a public who holds them accountable. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 401 Registered: 10-2005 |
Since the complainers and attackers have all failed to do their own research before proceeding with racist rants regarding Arabs (but denying it's racist), I'll make this slightly easier for you, and maybe next time you will think twice before you rush to judgement, or put your real thoughts in writing for all to see, or trust a US Congressman for your Data/Information: "In the talk-show furor over the transfer of P&O to Dubai Ports World, there has been little reference to the mechanics of port management in the U.S. Over 80 percent of the terminals in the Port of Los Angeles, for example — the biggest in the U.S. — are run by foreign-owned companies. U.S. ports are owned by state authorities, and the workers who actually offload the ships that dock there are the same unionized Americans who belong to the International Longshoremen's Association, regardless of which company hires them. Dubai Ports will not "own" the U.S. facilities, but will inherit the P&O's contracts to run them, with no changes in the dockside personnel or the U.S. government security operations that currently apply to them." www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,1161466,00.html | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3248 Registered: 3-2004 |
Ports are symbols, smarty. I don't know about your ancestors, but my ancestors came through and into the Port of New York, when they arrived to find freedom in this land. I don't want the port my ancestors came through to become the property of any other country. And I'm a cultural relativist, and have been villified for it on this very message board. One thing about America...it's a sovereign land. Our sovereignty was violated, like an international act of rape, on 9/11, and like an act of rape, it makes the victim more vigilant. Pardon us while we try to protect our country from invasion, whether economic or military. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 402 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dave, you are wrong, and it's starting to become quite clear how you view the world, because you are literally making stuff-up in an attempt to support your views, and you are sounding like Archie Bunker. Dubai is NOT the least democratic nation in the world (it stands smack in the middle on most metrics that measure this) and this deal has no impact what-so-ever on how Security is handled at our borders, so any reference to security is a red-herring, and an attempt to inflame the racist beliefs hovering below the surface. Dubai has one of the highest standards of living in the world, and has a tremendous track record of managing ports around the world. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3249 Registered: 3-2004 |
Doesn't make it entitled to own our land. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 403 Registered: 10-2005 |
Tulip, my ancestors came through the same Ports yours did, as will the ancestors of millions of Arabs who are now calling this country home. Where was your concern when the management of the first 80% of our ports was outsourced years back? Please admit that: 1) you have never visited this Port you claim to hold in such high reverance 2) it's just Arabs that bother you (the brits who ran it before certainly didn't bug you) 3) you hold the entire Arab community to blaim for 911 (which honestly has nothing to do with this deal) that way, I can take my discussion to someone dealing with Facts, not perverted emotions. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 404 Registered: 10-2005 |
Tulip, would you please read just a LITTLE about this transaction? You are really embarrassing yourself with these comments. I posted a very comprehensive article which details both sides of the story. You will likely feel a lot better about this after you learn about it. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8748 Registered: 4-1997 |
This sums it up best for me: Entrusting information about key U.S. ports - including, presumably, government-approved plans for securing them, to say nothing of the responsibility for controlling physical access to these facilities, to a country known to have been penetrated by terrorists is not just irresponsible. It's reckless. ... ... the U.S. government views - and is determined to portray - the United Arab Emirates as a vital ally in this war for the Free World. A similar determination has long caused Washington to treat Saudi Arabia as a valued friend, even as the Saudis continue playing a double game whereby they work simultaneously to repress terrorism at home and abet it abroad. (FRANK J. GAFFNEY JR. in NY Sun) | ||
| Paris Hiltonberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6829 Registered: 10-2001 |
Here's all you need to know about Tulip. She posted her son's name, picture and story about his arrest at his college on MOL.. Should come in handy when a potential employer googles his name in a year or two. Not to be rude but this is how Tulip thinks. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3250 Registered: 3-2004 |
Smarty: I am not embarrassing myself. You are embarrassing yourself by speaking on behalf of a loopy idea. Never visited? Hah!! I lived in NY longer than you've been alive. Arabs bother me? Another hah!! You weren't reading the message board. I don't like the idea of selling the port to ANY NATION. I believe in SOVEREIGNTY. For Iraq, for the US, for any country. I don't think Denmark should own ports in Norway, or Scotland should own port in Ireland. I think this was a stupid move, BECAUSE it is symbolic of how republicans place the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR and the business deal above the national interests and cultures of the world. Have respect for the people of this world. I was once in favor of NAFTA for example, because I thought it would help developing countries struggling throughout the world. I took seven years of graduate training on cultures of the Middle East, Asia and Latin America. I did anthropological field work in preparation for the Peace Corps. I work with African Americans and Arabic, Hispanic and other people and have all my working life (forty years.) This was a bad decision. You should be ashamed of yourself that instead of admitting it was a stupid decision, you have to try, pathetically, to malign me. I just am calling a spade a spade. No anti-Arab here. I don't believe in one country selling off its rights to another. It's unpatriotic, for God's sake. and straw, for the last time, I am proud of my son, and I would post his name and picture again and again. He is doing very well in school, is working for the election of one of his friends for county office, and is beloved by his friends and family. He's doing much better, since you ask, and thank you for your concern. |
