| Author | Message | ||
     Brokeback Straw Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6857 Registered: 10-2001  |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060227/ap_on_bi_ge/economic_outlook Once again, libs are made to look foolish. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3402 Registered: 5-2001  |
You mean the 5 year old Bush recession may FINALLY be coming to an end? | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1604 Registered: 3-2004 |
Great news indeed, with oil expected (according to the article) to trade at $59/barrel (and no real policy to break our dependency on oil), interest rates expected to be raised significantly (which should put a bit of a damper on consumers' ability to purchase the American dream, a house of their own), and continued downward pressure on average wages: my goodness, it looks like 1932, except for the oil prices. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 874 Registered: 10-2005 |
Innisowen- Such substance-less melodrama so early in the morning? At leas down a cup of joe before you post. -SLK | ||
| Brokeback Straw Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6858 Registered: 10-2001 |
MHD thinks there's a recession going on.  Time for a new stock broker,I guess. libs, out of touch... | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10811 Registered: 5-2001 |
While not normally a fan, take a look at Krugman's Op-Ed in today's NY Times, complete with facts and figures. Unfortunately, while there is good economic news, for the most part those of us who don't make over $500,000 a year, aren't participating in it to any great degree. Did I spell "oligarchy" correctly?  | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3075 Registered: 5-2001  |
The tide comes in, and the tide goes out. But when it comes in, it only lifts the luxury yachts. But Straw is happy, because he thinks that somehow this makes liberals look foolish. Welcome to Strawberry Seaport. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 832 Registered: 10-2004  |
I am so glad that the Straw family is doing well in these tough times. I only wish that the all Americans could say the same. Many more American families are cash strapped and making use of soup kitchens to feed themselves now then just 5 years ago. It may just be that Innisowen is not far off in his comparison to 1932. While those of you who could care less about the hardworking people who cant make ends meet might not want to acknowledge it, the fact remains that the last 5 years have been hard on the working class. It does not seem to be letting up. hunger story here and here American Second Harvest summary of findings You might be doing great brokebackstraw but about 1 in 10 Americans are suffering daily, trying to make ends meet. Very cavalier stuff from the high and mighty Straw.. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1605 Registered: 3-2004 |
Straw and Scrotey: Victims of mindless ideology triumphing over reality. Poor dumb a--es. What planet have you two been co-habiting on? | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5253 Registered: 8-2003 |
There was growing income 'inequality' when the market took off in the mid-through-late 90s, but for some reason no one was using a food kitchen and the homeless disappeared from the Thankgiving Half-time Pitch when the Lions lost to whatever team they were playing. How mindsets change. I think with new poverty calculations that include how much stuff we give the 'poor', it's down to below 10% Hoops. And of those in food kitchens, how many are obese? | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4419 Registered: 5-2001 |
Obesity is not a sign that you're well off. Potatoes, white bread and rice are cheap. Coca-cola is cheaper than milk. Poor nutritional education, poverty, mass marketing of food, and cultural inertia have a nexus, and it's obesity. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3069 Registered: 9-2001  |
cjc--wish you had data to back what you were saying, but you were going pretty well until that last unfortunate, cruel, and unnecessary comment. Why do you always need to stick a shiv in the ribs of people when you can just as easily make your argument without it? | ||
| Brokeback Straw Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6861 Registered: 10-2001 |
I see, so we need to not only feed the poor but we need to help them count their carbs.. Should we issue them free memberships to health clubs as well? libs. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10814 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cjc, while I agree that the financial markets had an effect on the "income gap", the Bush tax cuts sure as heck didn't hurt either. Also, the actual inflation adjusted income for many Americans is actually decreasing. Straw, nowadays the have nots are defined as anyone with an income below $400,000 to $500,000 per year. In other words, 99% of us. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1606 Registered: 3-2004 |
Naaah, Straw, we don't need to do that with our limited resources. We'd better off using some of those resources to give people like Straw and Scrotey (if they really are people, rather than digitally sophisticated crash dummies) a few courses in Finance, Economics, and History to replace the courses in Fantasy, Histrionics, and Sophistry that they apparently "aced" in school. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 833 Registered: 10-2004 |
cjc - wow. The bitterness with which you protest the support of those who cannot support themselves for whatever reason are telling of nothing other then your own callousness, heartlessness, greediness. I would think maybe you should reconsider whether your personal priorities are not skewed to far towards politics and away from real human needs. Do you think that people who visit these places are there because they prefer the cuisine? wow. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4422 Registered: 5-2001 |
no, straw, you should cook them and eat them. I'm cross-posting this point, Harper's magazine is estimating that the Iraq war is costing each American taxpayer $20,000. On the other hand, a small brochure on nutrution would probably cost a few pennies per copy, which is less than a health club membership but more than your average con is willing to spend. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5254 Registered: 8-2003 |
The romanticization of all those who not only depend upon charity but demand it and are upset when it's not to the level wanted is what I'm addressing in a round-about way here. And the always ready notion that the reason they are in the state they are is because of some neglect or action of those who are 'well-off' or 'rich' is right behind it. All the money in the economy goes to the 1% rich, and the other 99% of the poor are left with food pantrys. I'm not 'sticking it in the ribs' of a soup kitchen diner unless they're online right now and I'm hoping it's not off a cable hook-up of $45/month. Is it unfair to note how much assistance we already give 'the poor' but isn't calculated? They only make X, but don't look at Section 8 vouchers, Medicaid, daycare for your kid if you're in welfare-to-work and maybe even a car allowance while you're at it. We give them an income tax return on income taxes they don't pay. Such is the greed in this country. No -- don't even take that into consideration because it doesn't enhance the picture of complete destitution that needs to be conveyed for support to continue and expand. The poor -- large percentages own their home, they own their car, they have appliances no one even dreamed about years ago, the are entitled to a host of services simply because they breathe. It's part of the reality that doesn't make the discussion. Did I call for the cessation of these programs anywhere? No. I know where these examples and arguments go and where the blame is placed, and I'm responding pre-emptively for the most part. You may now continue expounding upon a 4.5% unemployment rate as the worst economy in 50 years. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5795 Registered: 12-2001  |
cjc that post is disgusting and worse still, pathetic. You have my sympathies. I cannot imagine that anyone who posts that sort of thing can be the least bit happy. Eerily familiar words written in London many years ago...
Only he was a much better writer | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1607 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hoops: Leave the callousness issues behind. I think you have to beat back these clowns on facts, such as lagging growth in real wages for the middle class (whose population is decreasing while its members move downhill in their buying power), the high cost per barrel of oil (even in the newswire cited by Straw, that price is expected to average $59/barrel in '06) the fundamental lack of strategy to reduce dependency on oil the fundamental lack of coordination between various White House mouths about the necessity of moving to alternative fuel sources, the real cost of the Iraq war, the inability to marshall forces for corrective action in post-Katrina Mississippi and Louisiana, the impact of interest rate hikes on the ability of most Americans (who, partly through their own fault, save nothing and spend all) to buy into the housing market the effect of interest rate hikes on the so-called real estate boom. Why quibble about facts when you can dance like Straw and Scrotey to the tune of your favorite ideology ("we're in the money, we're in the money...") They are such a clique of colossal bores. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1600 Registered: 7-2004  |
I was thinking the same thing, Duncan. I can't recall reading a post so full of hatred and self-loathing as cjc's above. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5796 Registered: 12-2001 |
Innis..you are spot on. Brown on Today this morning saying that if a terrorist had blown up the 17th street levee in NOLA he would have been swamped with resources simply reinforces your point. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1579 Registered: 8-2004  |
Gentlemen , please indicate at what point in recent history you would say the economy was doing well? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 834 Registered: 10-2004 |
25 million people had to use food kitchens to try to make ends meet. I dont claim to have an answer to the problem, nor do I point to percentages of anything as an answer or even definition of the problem. I do claim that the times are worse now then they were just a few short years ago and that conclusion is directly from the number of people getting help at soup kitchens. Your conclusion that these people have it good does not change the fact that there are more of them then before who require assistance. Since the premise of this thread is just how good the economy is, I think it is wise to realize that there are polar opposites in America and the gaps continue to grow especially because of cuts in aid to the poor. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10817 Registered: 5-2001 |
Interesting that Cjc feels that way about the middle class, huh? I suspect back in the Reagen years he bought into the "Chicago welfare mom with a Cadillac" mentality as well. It would also be interesing to see how many ways the country subsidizes the wealthy with tax shelters, income tax cuts, etc. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1608 Registered: 3-2004 |
Guy: How about 1993 to 1999 for starters? real wages on the rise, coupled with good employment statistics... of course, outsourcing was not any near the level that it is today, but then again, today, we face it without a real strategy to deal with it. But we do have the bromides emanating from all sides of the political spectrum in DC. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5255 Registered: 8-2003 |
The 'so-called real estate boom'? Homeownership must be at all-time lows I guess. Wages flat, but benefits exploding as more and more healthcare is used and life expectancies increase. Oil isn't the back-breaker it used to be as our economy is much less dependent on oil for each point of GDP. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 725 Registered: 3-2005 |
Innisowen are you saying the Federal government needs to come up with a strategy to "deal" with outsourcing? | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 876 Registered: 10-2005 |
Good God Innyboy- I really got your goat this morning, and I was just teasing you. Going after the intelligence again I see? What, do you feel threatened that someone actually has a different perspective then yours? Pompus, jesuit ******************* CJC, if I were you I would stay out of these "economically disadvantaged" debates because the subject is TABOO on these boards and such souls are neither accountable or responsible for anything.How I wish that the people on these boards you defend the EDs to death only so they can sleep better at night would learn that their condescending thought process is what hurts the EDs the most. I wonder what they think of Clinton's Welfare Reform? A 4.5 unemployment is a good sign that life for many is well. But it also shows that the bottom of the barrel is working, meaning competition for good labor is high....thus costing more....sometimes too much... Hows that for economics there, Innyboy....? BTW, I am still waiting for our PUBLIC discussions on these issues....what are you, chicken? -SLK And my social worker wife, who use to go into alot of these shi**ty neighborhoods (that many of you are so concerned about but never actually been to pointed out) to me 5 years ago that the new generation of poor were becoming OBESE due to poor choices in food purchases......lo and behold.... A large chunk of people considered "poor" these days just have misplaced priorities and poor spending habits....give me 10 mintues with an ED and 8 out of 10 times I can tell you where the true problem is.... | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1609 Registered: 3-2004 |
No, Doug, I don't expect the federal government under its current leadership to come up with a strategy for anything--- not for war, not for counter-terrorism or counter-insurgency, not for homeland security, not for fundamental components of the economy, not for environmental threats, not for the ever-growing wage gap between high-income and low-income segments of our society, not for the rising cost of prescription drugs, not for corporate corruption, no. Why would I expect the Chief Executive of this administration to come up with a strategy for anything, especially for fundamental threats to the well-being of working Americans whose jobs are being shipped off shore? Why should any of that concern our national CEO? | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 726 Registered: 3-2005 |
During the first four years of Clinton (1993-1996) real wages grew at an average annual rate of 0.16% during the first four years of Bush (2001-2004) real wages grew at an average annual rate of 0.18%. 2005 is not available yet. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 879 Registered: 10-2005 |
Innis- My you are cranky today...what happened, miss the blizzard up in VT this weekend? Geez....stay out of his way.... -SLK | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 727 Registered: 3-2005 |
Innisowen - is that what is called a rant? Don't expect the feds (dems of reps) to fix our economic problems. The great American economy will continue to grow and provide oppourtunity for all. As long as the governement stays out of the way. God Bless America. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5256 Registered: 8-2003 |
Bob K -- where do I as a wealthy person sign up to get someone else's money handed to me? Do I have to go into farming to qualify? Sam Donaldson found a way, but I'm allegeric to mohair so that's out. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 835 Registered: 10-2004 |
dougw - no clue what those numbers mean. SLK - As an expert in ED I commend you. Between you and Bob Dole you guys must have it all figured out.  | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5798 Registered: 12-2001 |
dougw...why end with God Bless America? It seems as though you think that Innis' post is somehow unpatriotic so you have to validate your own? I don't understand that. And I kind of doubt that Innis would categorize his post as a rant. A list, perhaps, of things that the USA,Inc. can't deal with. But with such a very small segment of the population true share holders, there isn't about to be any big change on that front. Oh, yes, lest I be called unpatriotic for questioning the motives and abilities of this current administration... GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!! | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5257 Registered: 8-2003 |
Look at total compensation of wages and healthcare benefits as part of the pay package when people talk about 'lagging growth.' | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1610 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hoops: I believe that Scrotey's use of "ED" is basically the same as Bob Dole's in those TV commercials of a couple of years ago. I don't think it has anything to do with "economically disadvantaged." | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 880 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hoops- Please list your qualifications on the ED then we will talk. Where do live? How did you grow up? Duncan-Don't be so paranoid. I think DougW was just reinforcing what makes this country so great. Keep the Govt out of things.... -SLK | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1580 Registered: 8-2004 |
By most established measures the economy is doing quite well. You can always find negatives in any economy. For instance in 1998 the percentage of Americans without healthcare was 17% it is now 15.8%. |
