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Archive through March 7, 2006DaveThe Libertarian40 3-7-06  3:39 pm
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dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23

Post Number: 1432
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this a secret political message board?
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero

Post Number: 5143
Registered: 10-1999


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Quote:

i save my honest political debate for a great politics message board that i am a member of. we sometimes get some famous politicos and media members there.


Wow.

I guess we've been put in our place.
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Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave

Post Number: 8829
Registered: 4-1997


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm ratcheting down my estimation of Libertarian's age from 28 to 22.
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ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit

Post Number: 14
Registered: 2-2006


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a new guy here I think Lib is a snake!
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Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey

Post Number: 1961
Registered: 8-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

this is a political board?

oh, my bad. I thought it was a place for smug, self-important people to tell us that they are more intelligent, noble, moral, and courageous than the rest of us internet whiners are.
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Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers

Post Number: 5898
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what he said
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider

Post Number: 12777
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, tom, I'm not convinced this proposal hits up against the first amendment. The free speech part of the first amendment allows people to say what they wish, but it does not promise anonymity. I don't think we are entitled to be anonymous, however, internet technology is such that it is easier to be anonymous than to be nonymous, to coin a word. Therefore, it is unrealistic to hope a messageboard enforce a rule of stating and verifying your identity.

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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom

Post Number: 4475
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 5:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Freedom of speech implies the freedom to say what I want, and the freedom to not say what I don't want. If I have to say, "my name is tom doe and I live at 191 Xyz Ave. in Maplewood, NJ" in order to say my piece, my freedom speech is restricted.

In partial response to cjc's all-too-predictable aside about campaign contributions as speech, it's interesting that now after years of insisting that pornography isn't literally "speech" and should not come under first-amendment protection, or that non-political speech wasn't what the framers had in mind, now conservatives are insisting that the act of giving money is protected speech.

(They're also fond of inventing "property rights," words which don't appear in the constitution any more than "right to privacy.")
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider

Post Number: 12781
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 5:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with the right to anonymity is that, like other things, it was probably not conceivable in the 18th century, so it's hard to know how the framers would have felt about anonymity. I don't think precedent has upheld the right to anonymity, though if tested, the supreme court might decide that the right exists. But I don't agree with your implication that it already exists. It's just an expectation that is receiving increasing weight these days.

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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew

Post Number: 1644
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess we've been put in our place.

not my intent. i think this is you showing an inherent insecurity. its not always about you.

I'm ratcheting down my estimation of Libertarian's age from 28 to 22.

not even close. i assume you say this cause what i said has hit home and you are feeling insecure about it.

no surprise that some of you got all pissy about what i said. some of you are ratcheted so tight its a wonder that you dont explode.
learn to relax and stop taking yourselves so seriously. nobody likes a self-important, humorless, tight a**.

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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom

Post Number: 4477
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course it was conceivable. The entire "Federalist Papers" were published under pseudonyms. "Common Sense" was originally published anonymously. John Adams had anonymous letters printed in newspapers, and Ben Franklin also published under pseudonyms.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider

Post Number: 12782
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then I stand corrected.
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew

Post Number: 1645
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this a secret political message board?

not really a secret. its just that we have managed to find a great balance of members and have been able to keep our debates civil and with facts. our membership covers a broad spectrum of political beliefs. i dont want to dilute it with an influx of shrill and uninformed knee jerk liberals. nothing personal. we also try to keep the ideological, religious right, knee jerk republicans out as well if that makes you feel better.
nothing personal. we have a good thing going and i dont want to ruin it.
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew

Post Number: 1646
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i would invite tom and tom reingold over, but its not my message board.
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Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey

Post Number: 1964
Registered: 8-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 7:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, that board sounds cool. kind of like MOL pre-March, 2004.
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew

Post Number: 1648
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 7:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it can be really great! we have had white house correspondents post there, a high level member of a previous administrations justice department, and a congressman or two.
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Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317

Post Number: 610
Registered: 6-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Helen Thomas
Citizen
Username: Casey

Post Number: 1965
Registered: 8-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BFD,
White House correspondents post here all the time.
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew

Post Number: 1649
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wasnt bragging or looking for your validation. thanks though. have a nice day!
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13

Post Number: 4251
Registered: 1-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave-
I think it is highly unlikely this will pass.

Tulip
Would that mean we can no longer trash the BOT?

No
You might have something there. I wonder who got annoyed at what was posted about them. If it turns out that's what happened, I'm betting his / her political career will end at the end of their term.

Paul
Thanks for the contacts.
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Helen Thomas
Citizen
Username: Casey

Post Number: 1966
Registered: 8-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

geez Lib,
you're starting to sound like a humorless tight .
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13

Post Number: 4252
Registered: 1-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 8:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boogie-
I think that comment went over his /her head!
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wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy

Post Number: 2033
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 9:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Quote:

wow, that board sounds cool. kind of like MOL pre-March, 2004.






Maybe now the political insider will get the real scoop.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13

Post Number: 4256
Registered: 1-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy-
Yep. That quote!
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Hoofin
Citizen
Username: Hoofin

Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 2:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:26 pm:

. . .

[And this guy (http://hoofin.blogspot.com/2006/02/come-to-think-of-it.html) may be one of the ones who has been getting under Assemblyman Biondi's skin]



Sorry, I am just small beans--I doubt Pete worries about me at all. Plus I'm a blog, that I don't think is even covered by the legislation.

Biondi is apparently more worried about that Hillsborough board on NJ.com.

Some of the insinuations there are much worse than raising questions of favoritism in party endorsements.

There are two trends that really upset a sleepy corporate business like the Somerset County G.O.P. (a business that masquerades as a political party):

E-MAIL LISTS. Friendly political e-mail lists can get a lot of information out quickly and only at the cost of the time to prepare a good e-mailing. Democrats can also use this method without needing a bunch of mystery "speech"-money flowing into the county from elsewhere.

AND

INEFFECTIVENESS OF THE FULL-COLOR GLOSSY: I hear that politicos are also concerned about the power of the full-color glossy mailer to cut through so-called "unsubstantiated" claims of the other side.

The cheaper those things get to do, the easier it is for the other side to get in the game.

"Civil Pete" Biondi's movement to clean up the internet is really an expression of concern by the dominant party here, that it's getting more difficult to run the business the old way.

Instead of adapting to the new technologies, some find it easier to shred the Constitution.
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero

Post Number: 5144
Registered: 10-1999


Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 7:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for dropping by this *ahem* collection of "shrill and uninformed knee jerk liberals".

Seriously, since you've been dealing with this Biondi guy and his issues for a while, any suggestions for what the rest of the NJ electorate can do about his plan?
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero

Post Number: 5145
Registered: 10-1999


Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 7:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like the publicity is getting to Assemblyman Biondi -

Quote:

Feeling the heat, Assemblyman Peter Biondi (R-Somerset) said yesterday he is thinking hard about withdrawing a bill he introduced to limit anonymous speech on the Internet.

Biondi's said his legislation, A-1327, aims to restore "civility" to NJ.com online discussion forums serving Bedminster, Bridgewater and Hillsborough. (NJ.com and The Star-Ledger are owned by Advance Publications.)

The lawmaker said the measure was prompted by constituents who called his office -- anonymously -- asking if "we can put an end to people calling each other liars and slimeballs."

Biondi is being called a lot worse this week, thanks to online mentions of his bill on Web sites Slashdot.org, CNET and the Drudge Report. One NJ.com posting yesterday by "Darklight" compared the assemblyman with the hindquarters of a horse--and that is one of the nicer comments.

~snip~

Legally, the bill violates federal and New Jersey free speech protections, and runs counter to a tradition of anonymous speech dating to the Federalist Papers, said attorney Kurt Opsahl of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a cyber-rights group.

"It is part of the very foundations of our society," Opsahl said.

"Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority," the U.S. Supreme Court declared in 1995, in McIntyre v. the Ohio Election Commission.

~snip~

Biondi's bill has no co-sponsors, and isn't yet scheduled for hearings. The assemblyman, who said he doesn't have time to wade through online forums, has asked the state Office of Legislative Services to determine if the measure is constitutional.

"If it turns out this bill is unworkable, I'll certainly reconsider and withdraw it," said Biondi , 63, whose cyber-civics lesson has left him "inundated" with calls and e-mails.


http://www.nj.com/business/ledger/index.ssf?/base/business-2/114179835846100.xml &coll=1
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Hoofin
Citizen
Username: Hoofin

Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They (Kevin Coughlin) misquoted "Publeus" in that article:

http://www.nj.com/forums/hillsborough/index.ssf?artid=22764
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bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline

Post Number: 391
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sent an e-mail to Biondi this morning, via njleg.state.nj.us, and got this reply:
Thank you for your e-mail. I understand your concerns with my recently proposed legislation. Based on the number of negative responses I have received about this legislation I have asked the NJ Office of Legislative Services to prepare an opinion regarding this bill's enforceability and constitutionality.

I did not draft this bill with intent to limit freedom of speech. The intent behind this legislation was to bring some civility back to public forums, in particular the forums on www.nj.com. As I receive more feedback from, literally, around the country, it is becoming apparent that the bill may be too broad in scope and in reality not enforceable.

As an aside, this bill was only introduced in January. There have been no committee hearings regarding this bill and there are none scheduled to my knowledge. I am getting inundated with responses which I will review and use to better educate myself on the implications of this bill. If, after reviewing all of the correspondence and the opinion of OLS, it turns out that the bill is, in fact, unworkable, I will certainly reconsider and withdraw it. In other words, this is not something that will happen overnight.

I appreciate your position and I will certainly use your commentary as I further study the unintended consequences of this legislation.

It is unfortunate, from my perspective, that while my intention here was civility and respectfulness, it turns out that it may have gone too far.

Thank you again for your e-mail and if I can do anything for you in the future, please do not hesitate to contact my office.

Sincerely,

Pete Biondi
Assemblyman




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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider

Post Number: 12786
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the laughs, nohero and bottomline. Yeah, he didn't intend to limit free speech, right, but that would be the effect. And he just wanted to introduce civility. Hmm, legislating civility. That's a concept.
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Hoofin
Citizen
Username: Hoofin

Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 1:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pete Biondi is a bully.

That's very typical of the Somerset County G.O.P.

They act very friendly and are all smiles in public events. But fact is, their behavior to anyone who questions whatever they do is very nasty.

What happened here, I believe, is that Pete decided to "send a message". But an overwhelming number of people throughout the state (and worldwide!) sent a strong message back.

Notice the delicate way he backs off his convictions in the e-mail.

Now it's just "looking for answers".

He could have gone to the NJ.com board and faced the critics. He might have found plenty of legitimate answers that way.

Instead, he apparently sent his badmouthing cronies.

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