| Author |
Message |
    
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 8969
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:05 am: | 
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http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,407493,00.html
A few caricatures in a Danish newspaper caused bloody riots in the Muslim world. But now an Afghan man has been sentenced to death for converting to Christianity. Afghanistan has told the West it should mind its own business. Come again?
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Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 1193
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
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We should invade, overthrow their tyrannical leaders and help them set up elections so that the suffering people of Afghanistan can finally have the progressive democracy that they crave. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1558
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:23 am: |
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We should invade, overthrow their tyrannical leaders and help them set up elections so that the suffering people of Afghanistan can finally have the progressive democracy that they crave.
Rinse, repeat. |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 1830
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:36 am: |
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Freedom is on the march though. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5432
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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Update -- Karzai has assured the Canadians the man won't be executed. What sentence he'd get if convicted wasn't said. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4160
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:36 am: |
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In this situation, the question is not the serverity of the punishment but, instead, why there is any punishment at all. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1562
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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Let's hope that the Mayor Karzai holds some sway here. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11044
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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Tj is right on. The issue isn't as much saving the guy in the present case, but to change the Afghans view of law. I believe there was a similar case last year where a woman was going to be executed for being raped. I don't remember how that one worked out. I also will make a bet there have been numerous similar cases that never were reported here in the west.
Iraq, for all its problems, has a secular past. Afghanistan doesn't. |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 169
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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The Afghan "Constitution" has a few catch all paragraphs to the effect that conflicts must be interpreted in accordance with Islamic law. But before that it does say everyone is entitled to religious freedom. Some Constitution.
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5439
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 2:47 pm: |
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Word is the guy will be released soon.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060324/wl_sthasia_afp/afghanistanreligion |
mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 421
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 3:35 pm: |
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Well, he'll have quite a price on his head. Let's hope he's released directly to the hands of the US military and taken to a plane headed out of the country.
This doesn't do anything to resolve the underlying issue, unfortunately. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1827
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 4:18 pm: |
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MJH:
He may in fact wind up with a price on his head--- and a different price on the body from which the head has been severed--- in good ol', peaceful, democratic Afghanistan, re-emerging with DISTINCTION as one of the key OPIUM capitols of the world. |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 172
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 4:59 pm: |
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Afghanistan was run by the Taliban (which is making a comeback), which supported Al Qaeda and sheltered the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11. Many Al Qaeda are now hiding in the mountainous border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Can anyone tell me why then, in this War on Terror, we have 133,000 troops in Iraq and 22,000 in Afghanistan? |
Brokeback Straw
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 6997
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 6:16 pm: |
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Now the libs are mad we invaded Afghanistan..
morons..(Not you Dave) |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5233
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 6:26 pm: |
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Correction - the "libs" wonder why we stopped in Afghanistan, to focus on Iraq. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1829
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 6:34 pm: |
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Straw,
As usual, you not only misstate the situation but lie and misrepresent.
There was major support in this country among Congressional representatives and Senators, across parties, and among citizens, to pursue Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan.
What many bemoan is the fact that the current administration declared premature victory in Afghanistan ( a country years behind Pakistan and decades behind the rest of the middle east) and fully, completely, and totally dropped the ball on the pursuit of Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
To continue my anatomical and sexual adjectives and metaphores that have titillated some posters and been misinterpreted by others, the current president of this country was so surprised by his premature ejaculation in Afghanistan that he was at a loss as to what to do next.
So what did he do? He took his eye off the ball, in violation of Innisowen's critical motto: "semper testiculo"---- always on the ball---and focused his petty energies and a petty set of tactics on Iraq.
On the ball is one thing which this president and his administration AIN'T. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5441
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 7:23 pm: |
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"The war in Afghanistan is over." — Nancy Pelosi.
It must be over. Nancy Pelosi said so. Retreat is in order, and it's what Democrats are good at.
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200506240759.asp |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4615
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 7:37 pm: |
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Yet another quote ripped out of context and presented as democrat tartare to the discerning palates of the rabid right. I hadn't noticed the announcement of Pelosi's appointment to the Administration in such a powerful position, so I didn't realize that she had the authority to declare the war over. She must be the one, if I read you correctly, who moved U.S. troops out of Afghanistan and into Iraq.
Of course it's all nonsense, but it's a nice way to keep your eye off the ball. Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel, so bring up Pelosi, or Clinton, or the other Clinton, or Gore, or Kerry ... Jimmy Carter if you have to! But please con't let anyone catch a glimpse of the imbeciles behind the curtain today.
The Administrations efforts to catch the real perpetrators of 9/11 are about as convincing as O.J.'s promises to find the "real killers." |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1834
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 7:55 pm: |
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Congratulations, CJC! You must by now be the absolute master of the non-sequitur, the doyen of the out-of-context comment, and the speed reader par excellence who never gets beyond line 1 of articles you refer.
CJC references an article concerning something Nancy Pelosi said in June 2005 (wow, here we are in March 2006, and we don't have enough materials from this week to use as quotes!).
It's true that it's no compliment to Pelosi, but CJC's posting is certainly no compliment to his/her reading and interpreting ability.
Below is the text of the quote and the commentary in context. The quotation marks around the author's interpretation are mine, and the passage is verbatim from the article.
Start of passage---------
It's over, finally over. I can't believe it. We got through it. The war is over! Drink in the moment. Savor it. Call your friends, break out the champagne, plan the parades. The troops are coming home. The war is over!
Or wait — maybe not. For a country at peace there certainly seems to be a lot of fighting going on in Afghanistan. Over the past several days Coalition forces have been fighting Taliban forces in Zabul Province, near the Pakistan border. Over 100 enemy troops have been killed and it is believed that some senior Taliban leaders are now surrounded. Meanwhile family, friends, neighbors, dignitaries, and townsfolk turned out in Scituate, Massachusetts to bid farewell to Sergeant Michael J. Kelley, killed in a rocket attack June 8 in the southeastern Afghan town of Shkin. War over? Not quite.
"Pelosi's assessment of the conflict's termination had nothing to do with the military situation on the ground. She was simply engaging in a bit of legalistic judo over the Guantanamo issue."
The Pentagon has stated that the enemy detainees can be held for the duration of the war. Fine then. The war is over, let them out. A very clever ploy, but it leaves one with the uncomfortable feeling that Pelosi might actually believe what she said. If nothing else it demonstrates her failure to conceptualize the nature of the unconventional war we are in.
How in fact do you know when this kind of war is over? There is no ceremony on the deck of the Missouri or in a railway carriage with documents signed and side-arms surrendered. Generally a defeated insurgency or band of terrorists, like an old general, just fades away. Attacks become less frequent and less violent; the opposition makes fewer defiant statements; high level enemy leaders are captured, killed, or vanish into obscurity. Peace comes on little cat feet. You know you've won when nothing happens.
End of passage but not of entire article----------- |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 173
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 8:17 pm: |
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Straw: You must be kidding if you read that from my post, or you are a moron.
I have been behind our effort in Afghanistan from day one. As just about everyone in the country and world has been. It was in that country where the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 were trained and given support. I in fact think we should have more than 22,000 in Afghanistan and should be going after the terrorists harder there and in the border area (where, by the way, OBL, the man responsible for the worst attack on American soil is hiding). As I said, the terrorist supporting Taliban is making a comeback, and the "democratic" government is looking to execute a Muslim who dared to convert to Christianity.
Maybe you, in your infinite wisdom, can explain
why we have more than six times as many troops in the country that didn't attack us on 9/11 and is not harboring OBL? Or maybe you think Afghanistan is a fine, functioning, secure western style democracy that poses no further threat.
Really, you had to have been kidding with that post. No one can be that moronic. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4619
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 12:11 am: |
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pop quiz, and no fair googling. Who said this the other day?
Quote: "Democracy is more than purple thumbs ... Americans will not give their blood and treasure to prop up new Islamic fundamentalist regimes. Religious freedom is not just 'an important element' of democracy; it is its cornerstone. Religious persecution leads inevitably to political tyranny. Five hundred years of history confirm this. Americans have not given their lives so that Christians can be put to death ...
This trial belies any idea that Afghanistan, under its constitution, is committed to fundamental human rights. Such a trial is a flagrant violation of Article 18 of the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights—to which Article 7 of the Afghan Constitution mandates state adherence.
Demanding adherence to a UN Declaration? Must be one of those liberal Bush-haters, eh? Doesn't he know freedom's on the march(R)? |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5443
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 2:04 pm: |
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What level of organized terror must exist and then cease to operate to be able to declare a war 'over.' Is Spain still at war with the ETA? They've declared a ceasefire, but they haven't surrendered. I can't find any surrender by the IRA either. Maybe a war is over when there's no one dying in pursuit of the ir cause, but you don't need surrender for that to happen. And then when the next bomb goes off, is the war back on?
The Taliban will continue trying to kill the people of the new Afghan government if the US is there or not. Like any freedom, it will require eternal vigilance. The mission of installing an Afghan government has been accomplished. There will certainly be other missions over time. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1842
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 3:57 pm: |
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Just love your out of context references, CJC.
Got any more today? The newspapers and the web are full of items you could pull out of context. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5444
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 9:43 am: |
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Innis -- my comments weren't out of context. You said the Administration declared premature victory in Afghanistan, and the thread's title is "Mission Not Accomplished." Pelosi said the war was over, in essence joining Bush.. The piece I cited has interpreted her remarks to be 'legalistic judo" over Gitmo, but you don't hear Democrats say Afghanistan is a defeat or quagmire much less a stalemate with the Taliban. After all, how can it be a defeat and the war still raging when the mighty French and Germans are there? Democrats like Pelosi and Murtha position Afghanistan not as a war that's been neglected, but that has unfinished business regarding OBL and some regaining Taliban and militant wackos.
The public on balance (and Democrats too as long as that's the perception) thinks Afghanistan was successful and rightly so. The mission was accomplished. Coalition forces were victorious. That's not to say more fighting won't be necessary in outlying areas, or that the article that started this thread won't have company as Afghanistan learns the ropes of democracy and works to become more modern. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 9005
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 12:35 pm: |
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He's free now. Or soon.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/26/afghan.convert/index.html |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1846
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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CJC:
Thanks for the clarification.
It does reek of "Feets, don't fail me now," however.
Again, thanks. |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 3158
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 1:31 pm: |
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I love this quote from the AP story just out:
Muslim clerics had threatened to incite Afghans to kill Rahman if the government freed him. They said he clearly violated Islamic Shariah law by rejecting Islam.
The case against Rahman put Karzai in an awkward position.
Gee, one would thing that it is Rahman who is an incredibly awkward position. Forget about Karzai--as someone above said, let's hope that this guy is released right to the US airfield and whisked out of harm's way. Too bad he will have to leave his daughters behind. What a sad, sad situation that Muslim fundamentalists have created in their world--the Muslim Dark Ages are here and now, with all the firepower of modern technology. |
3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 117
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 6:42 pm: |
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5447
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 8:34 pm: |
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Well you're just really quite welcome, Innis! I can undertstand how it's exciting when the stench of retreat may possibly come from a party other than your own and/or one of it's supporters, even if that's not the case here. I've enjoyed correcting your perception that I was off on some tangent when I was in fact responding directly to something you added to this very discussion. No doubt I'll have that pleasure once again, and soon.
Again, you're welcome. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1851
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 8:57 pm: |
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CJC,
Thank you for your posting, fresh evidence of your consistency in posting equal numbers of non-sequiturs, out-of-context quotes and off-kilter references.
How do you manage to get it all done? |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5448
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 9:02 pm: |
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Nice try. |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1041
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 9:48 pm: |
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LOL WOW. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11068
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 2:14 pm: |
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The Captivate.com screen in our elevators reported that hundreds are demonstrating against the chance the guy will be released. Interesting place. |
TomD
Citizen
Username: Tomd
Post Number: 392
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 4:24 pm: |
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Looks like this puppet government will do just as well as the other puppet governments we've set up in the past.
What did Santayana say...oh, it probably dosen't matter... |
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